Old KEFs

An impulse purchase on ebay - a pair of KEF Cantata G4s, very cheap.
Now in the garage so I can listen to the BBC while tinkering.
But listening to some Thomas Tallis was a very similar experience to
a visit to the dentist - not actually painful but not pleasant...

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...ata/index.html

Are the original B139s worth selling on ebay to the transmission line
enthusiasts?
They have a rubberized cloth surround rather than neoprene and lower
power handling
but otherwise similar specs.

--
Eiron.

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
An impulse purchase on ebay - a pair of KEF Cantata G4s,
very cheap.
Now in the garage so I can listen to the BBC while
tinkering.
But listening to some Thomas Tallis was a very similar
experience to
a visit to the dentist - not actually painful but not
pleasant...

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...ata/index.html

Are the original B139s worth selling on ebay to the
transmission line enthusiasts?
They have a rubberized cloth surround rather than neoprene
and lower power handling
but otherwise similar specs.


For my money the B139 was probably the best air-mover ever
made - along with its later cousin the B200. I used to have
a pair of the Dr Bailey Transmission Lines (Wireless World
1972) which could shake windows at 10 paces and with
relatively little power!

However I suspect two things may be the cause of the poor
sound quality from the Cantata's: one is that there was
little overlap between the specified responses of the two
drive units - B139 was 20-1000Hz and the T15 was 800-20000.
The original design of the Bailey TLs was for the B139 as a
bass unit up to only a few hundred cycles, the B110 as a mid
range from a few hundred up to about 5KHz, and the T15 above
that lot - the T15 being superceeded by the T27 after the
T15 was ceased. The result was a very relaxed sound that,
whilst it was not as good as a two-way unit for stereo
imaging, gave immense detail, clarity, and realism from top
to bottom. I used to have a (sample CD) recording of a piece
of Bach played on the organ of Limburg Cathedral which made
tremendous use of pedal reeds - I have never found any
speaker (save a Cambridge R50 which used the same drivers
and had a TL construction) that could reproduce those reeds
in any realistic way and I have heard said organ. Bear in
mind that the B200/T27 combination was also used in the
LS3/5 - many would argue the best small monitor ever
designed?

The other is that the T15's have probably gone rusty and
their coils/formers are catching the magnet.

Although I had to dispose of the cabinets, I still have the
drive units with the hope, one day, of building something in
which they will work. I doubt however that you will get any
takers on fleabay.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:53:43 +0100, Eiron
wrote:

An impulse purchase on ebay - a pair of KEF Cantata G4s, very cheap.
Now in the garage so I can listen to the BBC while tinkering.
But listening to some Thomas Tallis was a very similar experience to
a visit to the dentist - not actually painful but not pleasant...

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...ata/index.html

Are the original B139s worth selling on ebay to the transmission line
enthusiasts?
They have a rubberized cloth surround rather than neoprene and lower
power handling
but otherwise similar specs.

B139s are very sellable. There are plenty of transmission line freaks
out there who love them. Just as well they haven't discovered that
more modern speakers are even better suited to the job. Or that there
are much better ways to load speakers than transmission lines.

Don't know about the tweeters though - they are probably responsible
for the unpleasantness. They may be broken. The Celestion HF1300 was a
common match for the B139, and had a very smooth response.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:53:43 +0100, Eiron

wrote:

An impulse purchase on ebay - a pair of KEF Cantata G4s,
very cheap.
Now in the garage so I can listen to the BBC while
tinkering.
But listening to some Thomas Tallis was a very similar
experience to
a visit to the dentist - not actually painful but not
pleasant...

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...ata/index.html

Are the original B139s worth selling on ebay to the
transmission line
enthusiasts?
They have a rubberized cloth surround rather than neoprene
and lower
power handling
but otherwise similar specs.

B139s are very sellable. There are plenty of transmission
line freaks
out there who love them. Just as well they haven't
discovered that
more modern speakers are even better suited to the job. Or
that there
are much better ways to load speakers than transmission
lines.

Don't know about the tweeters though - they are probably
responsible
for the unpleasantness. They may be broken. The Celestion
HF1300 was a
common match for the B139, and had a very smooth response.


I would totally agree with that save that I still don't
think I have heard any speaker (save as said the R50, and I
have both Spendor BCII's and KEF Q55's amongst others) that
can handle the clarity, detail and natural sound of the deep
bass - but I am willing to be corrected.

The other mod often made to the Bailey TLs was to fit a
Coles 4001G super tweeter which I found did help a tad with
the realism of some instruments.

When the time difference has had its way I'm sure Trevor
Wilson will be along soon to give us the benefits of his
experience, and doubtless also some serious abuse and bad
language from Phil Allison! (They are box in Oz.)


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:21:32 +0100, "Woody"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:53:43 +0100, Eiron

wrote:

An impulse purchase on ebay - a pair of KEF Cantata G4s,
very cheap.
Now in the garage so I can listen to the BBC while
tinkering.
But listening to some Thomas Tallis was a very similar
experience to
a visit to the dentist - not actually painful but not
pleasant...

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...ata/index.html

Are the original B139s worth selling on ebay to the
transmission line
enthusiasts?
They have a rubberized cloth surround rather than neoprene
and lower
power handling
but otherwise similar specs.

B139s are very sellable. There are plenty of transmission
line freaks
out there who love them. Just as well they haven't
discovered that
more modern speakers are even better suited to the job. Or
that there
are much better ways to load speakers than transmission
lines.

Don't know about the tweeters though - they are probably
responsible
for the unpleasantness. They may be broken. The Celestion
HF1300 was a
common match for the B139, and had a very smooth response.


I would totally agree with that save that I still don't
think I have heard any speaker (save as said the R50, and I
have both Spendor BCII's and KEF Q55's amongst others) that
can handle the clarity, detail and natural sound of the deep
bass - but I am willing to be corrected.

The other mod often made to the Bailey TLs was to fit a
Coles 4001G super tweeter which I found did help a tad with
the realism of some instruments.

When the time difference has had its way I'm sure Trevor
Wilson will be along soon to give us the benefits of his
experience, and doubtless also some serious abuse and bad
language from Phil Allison! (They are box in Oz.)

The B139 has very nice sounding bass, but its woeful Xmax (6mm) means
that it can't deliver loud bass.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:21:32 +0100, "Woody"

wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:53:43 +0100, Eiron

wrote:

An impulse purchase on ebay - a pair of KEF Cantata G4s,
very cheap.
Now in the garage so I can listen to the BBC while
tinkering.
But listening to some Thomas Tallis was a very similar
experience to
a visit to the dentist - not actually painful but not
pleasant...

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...ata/index.html

Are the original B139s worth selling on ebay to the
transmission line
enthusiasts?
They have a rubberized cloth surround rather than
neoprene
and lower
power handling
but otherwise similar specs.

B139s are very sellable. There are plenty of
transmission
line freaks
out there who love them. Just as well they haven't
discovered that
more modern speakers are even better suited to the job.
Or
that there
are much better ways to load speakers than transmission
lines.

Don't know about the tweeters though - they are probably
responsible
for the unpleasantness. They may be broken. The
Celestion
HF1300 was a
common match for the B139, and had a very smooth
response.


I would totally agree with that save that I still don't
think I have heard any speaker (save as said the R50, and
I
have both Spendor BCII's and KEF Q55's amongst others)
that
can handle the clarity, detail and natural sound of the
deep
bass - but I am willing to be corrected.

The other mod often made to the Bailey TLs was to fit a
Coles 4001G super tweeter which I found did help a tad
with
the realism of some instruments.

When the time difference has had its way I'm sure Trevor
Wilson will be along soon to give us the benefits of his
experience, and doubtless also some serious abuse and bad
language from Phil Allison! (They are box in Oz.)

The B139 has very nice sounding bass, but its woeful Xmax
(6mm) means
that it can't deliver loud bass.



Totally agree. But anyone who has been to a live concert -
be it orchestral, choral, instrumental, or organ - knows
that the sound is never as loud pro rata as people tend to
play it at home. A reasonable 'mid' volume with good dynamic
range beats sheer loudness in my book any day.

I think the B200 - and its look-alike the Dalesford - were
probably better for unmistakeable brute force!


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:16:02 +0100, "Woody"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:21:32 +0100, "Woody"

wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:53:43 +0100, Eiron

wrote:

An impulse purchase on ebay - a pair of KEF Cantata G4s,
very cheap.
Now in the garage so I can listen to the BBC while
tinkering.
But listening to some Thomas Tallis was a very similar
experience to
a visit to the dentist - not actually painful but not
pleasant...

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...ata/index.html

Are the original B139s worth selling on ebay to the
transmission line
enthusiasts?
They have a rubberized cloth surround rather than
neoprene
and lower
power handling
but otherwise similar specs.

B139s are very sellable. There are plenty of
transmission
line freaks
out there who love them. Just as well they haven't
discovered that
more modern speakers are even better suited to the job.
Or
that there
are much better ways to load speakers than transmission
lines.

Don't know about the tweeters though - they are probably
responsible
for the unpleasantness. They may be broken. The
Celestion
HF1300 was a
common match for the B139, and had a very smooth
response.


I would totally agree with that save that I still don't
think I have heard any speaker (save as said the R50, and
I
have both Spendor BCII's and KEF Q55's amongst others)
that
can handle the clarity, detail and natural sound of the
deep
bass - but I am willing to be corrected.

The other mod often made to the Bailey TLs was to fit a
Coles 4001G super tweeter which I found did help a tad
with
the realism of some instruments.

When the time difference has had its way I'm sure Trevor
Wilson will be along soon to give us the benefits of his
experience, and doubtless also some serious abuse and bad
language from Phil Allison! (They are box in Oz.)

The B139 has very nice sounding bass, but its woeful Xmax
(6mm) means
that it can't deliver loud bass.



Totally agree. But anyone who has been to a live concert -
be it orchestral, choral, instrumental, or organ - knows
that the sound is never as loud pro rata as people tend to
play it at home. A reasonable 'mid' volume with good dynamic
range beats sheer loudness in my book any day.

I think the B200 - and its look-alike the Dalesford - were
probably better for unmistakeable brute force!

You are right as long as the bass doesn't go very low. At it's
resonance of 28Hz it is protected by the coupled port from large
excursions, and it does very well. Much lower than that, though - a 64
foot organ pipe maybe, and it runs up against its end stops at very
low volume.

So don't play organ music through it!

s

On 27/08/2014 11:09, Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:

Or that there are much better ways to load speakers than transmission
lines.

I would be interested to hear what these are and in what way they are
better other than box size.


I suppose there's many ways to skin a cat. My preference (shaped by
price and space too) over the years has come down to sealed box or
transmission line. Wonder what Don has in mind.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 27/08/2014 11:43, Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
RJH wrote:
On 27/08/2014 11:09, Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:

Or that there are much better ways to load speakers than transmission
lines.

I would be interested to hear what these are and in what way they are
better other than box size.

I suppose there's many ways to skin a cat. My preference (shaped by
price and space too) over the years has come down to sealed box or
transmission line. Wonder what Don has in mind.

Yes, those are the two I've found best of all. The one tends to be
enormous and the other very inefficient. I've yet to hear bass from a
ported reflex enclosure that I actually like.

You don't have to tune a reflex box to give one note bass. :-)

Most people's response on hearing a B139 TL is "Where's the bass?"
You have to explain that you can't hear it because it's so good.
Perhaps a spot of LF EQ would help.

--
Eiron.

In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
I suppose there's many ways to skin a cat. My preference (shaped by
price and space too) over the years has come down to sealed box or
transmission line. Wonder what Don has in mind.

Yes, those are the two I've found best of all. The one tends to be
enormous and the other very inefficient. I've yet to hear bass from a
ported reflex enclosure that I actually like.

Strange I can't think of any pro speaker maker who used TL?

--
*In "Casablanca", Humphrey Bogart never said "Play it again, Sam" *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.