Quest continues for 'historic' info...

[Jim Lesurf[_2_]]

Thought I'd raise this here in case someone can help.

I've continued to do background research on the history of Armstrong Audio
/ Wireless in particular, but also other UK makes, etc in general. Since
the start of 2016 I've mainly been trawling pre-1960 issues of magazines,
back to the 1930 and collating what I'm finding.

However there are two things from the 1970s which I haven't been able to
find.

One is that - so far - I haven't been able to find a detailed magazine
review of the Armstrong 602 loudspeaker. This speaker design was only only
sale for a brief period. I've found a 'system' review that included it, but
it was clearly a weirdly mismatched collection of items and lacks any real
detail of the 602. I'm sure there must have been at least one 602 review,
but not yet found any.

I have Hi Fi News for the relevant years and am sure they didn't do one.
But it is possible that another mag like Hi Fi Choice did. So does anyone
have the copies of Hi Fi Choice or other mags from the period and can tell
me where such a review may be, please? I do have a few issues of Hi Fi
Choice from the 1970s, but not enough to exclude this. And I have almost no
issues of many other mags like the old Hi Fi Sound, etc, during the period.

Similarly, in the late 1970s I recall being told about a review of the
Armstrong 600 tuner (or receiver) which criticised the tuner for having an
early roll off in the HF and a 'dull' sound. In fact the tuner they'd been
sent had the USA de-emphasis by mistake. Again I'd love to find this review
now, but I've not yet located it. As above I guess it was in Hi Fi Choice
or some other magazine (not Hi Fi News).

More generally, can anyone suggest a book/magazine dealer I could get such
old issues of magazines from? One who has a real UK postal address and will
work via email and cheque-by-post, *not* ebay or amazon? This type of
secondhand dealer seems to have been killed off, alas.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Brian Gaff]

I have never heard of that speaker, and wonder if it was a rebadged
something else, which would explain its short life and no reviews.
Just a thought.
Funny you should say about the de emphasis, as I had a Rotel that sounded
very leaden, and though I had many conversations with the company and some
'experts' nobody could really say why except that it might be a phase shift
issue with the filters somewhere. Now I thought all filters involved phase
shifts and cancellations, so I took it with a pinch of salt and folgged it
to a cloth eared persona and bought a Pioneer instead.
My Armstrong 500 series tuner having died due to transistor encapsulation
short out death. A Mullard issue of that vintage I'm told.
Brian

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"Jim Lesurf" > wrote in message
...
> Thought I'd raise this here in case someone can help.
>
> I've continued to do background research on the history of Armstrong Audio
> / Wireless in particular, but also other UK makes, etc in general. Since
> the start of 2016 I've mainly been trawling pre-1960 issues of magazines,
> back to the 1930 and collating what I'm finding.
>
> However there are two things from the 1970s which I haven't been able to
> find.
>
> One is that - so far - I haven't been able to find a detailed magazine
> review of the Armstrong 602 loudspeaker. This speaker design was only only
> sale for a brief period. I've found a 'system' review that included it,
> but
> it was clearly a weirdly mismatched collection of items and lacks any real
> detail of the 602. I'm sure there must have been at least one 602 review,
> but not yet found any.
>
> I have Hi Fi News for the relevant years and am sure they didn't do one.
> But it is possible that another mag like Hi Fi Choice did. So does anyone
> have the copies of Hi Fi Choice or other mags from the period and can tell
> me where such a review may be, please? I do have a few issues of Hi Fi
> Choice from the 1970s, but not enough to exclude this. And I have almost
> no
> issues of many other mags like the old Hi Fi Sound, etc, during the
> period.
>
> Similarly, in the late 1970s I recall being told about a review of the
> Armstrong 600 tuner (or receiver) which criticised the tuner for having an
> early roll off in the HF and a 'dull' sound. In fact the tuner they'd been
> sent had the USA de-emphasis by mistake. Again I'd love to find this
> review
> now, but I've not yet located it. As above I guess it was in Hi Fi Choice
> or some other magazine (not Hi Fi News).
>
> More generally, can anyone suggest a book/magazine dealer I could get such
> old issues of magazines from? One who has a real UK postal address and
> will
> work via email and cheque-by-post, *not* ebay or amazon? This type of
> secondhand dealer seems to have been killed off, alas.
>
> Thanks in advance for any info.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
> Electronics
> http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
> Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
> Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
>

[Jim Lesurf[_2_]]

In article >, Brian Gaff
> wrote:
> I have never heard of that speaker, and wonder if it was a rebadged
> something else,

Nope. Bill Purkis designed it whilst working for Armstrong at Warlters Rd.
I knew him and worked there at the same time. FWIW I still have a pair of
the prototype 602 units (lwhich lack veneer of their fronts) with spare /
alternative crossover boards. The sound is pretty similar to the good KEF
speakers of the period. But Bill had previously worked for Goodmans, not
KEF.

> which would explain its short life and no reviews.

I suspect there *was* a review. But the speaker was released at a time when
the company was facing losing its factory, etc. So the 602 probably wasn't
on sale for very long.

Problem for me is that in those days there were a number of competing hi fi
magazines, and I don't have copies of many issues.

Alas, the internet seems to have killed off being able to find
old-fashioned specialist secondhand book/mag dealers who will talk to you
and accept payment via "cheque in the post". So since I can't get to
audiojumbles, fairs, etc, I find it hard to get issues of the old
magazines.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Brian Gaff]

Yes back in the day when I could see, I used to have a lot of hi fi sound,
but like I suspect many other people whty went down the recyclers when I
cleared out the shed and loft. I still have some old mags, but now of course
cannot bloody read them!



Brian

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Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Jim Lesurf" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Brian Gaff
> > wrote:
>> I have never heard of that speaker, and wonder if it was a rebadged
>> something else,
>
> Nope. Bill Purkis designed it whilst working for Armstrong at Warlters Rd.
> I knew him and worked there at the same time. FWIW I still have a pair of
> the prototype 602 units (lwhich lack veneer of their fronts) with spare /
> alternative crossover boards. The sound is pretty similar to the good KEF
> speakers of the period. But Bill had previously worked for Goodmans, not
> KEF.
>
>> which would explain its short life and no reviews.
>
> I suspect there *was* a review. But the speaker was released at a time
> when
> the company was facing losing its factory, etc. So the 602 probably wasn't
> on sale for very long.
>
> Problem for me is that in those days there were a number of competing hi
> fi
> magazines, and I don't have copies of many issues.
>
> Alas, the internet seems to have killed off being able to find
> old-fashioned specialist secondhand book/mag dealers who will talk to you
> and accept payment via "cheque in the post". So since I can't get to
> audiojumbles, fairs, etc, I find it hard to get issues of the old
> magazines.
>
> Jim
>
> --
> Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
> Electronics
> http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
> Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
> Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
>

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
Jim Lesurf > wrote:

> Alas, the internet seems to have killed off being able to find
> old-fashioned specialist secondhand book/mag dealers who will talk to you
> and accept payment via "cheque in the post". So since I can't get to
> audiojumbles, fairs, etc, I find it hard to get issues of the old
> magazines.

I'm afraid all this sort of thing has gone to Ebay these days. Something
my brother won't accept either. ;-)

--
*Eat well, stay fit, die anyway

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Jim Lesurf[_2_]]

In article >, Dave Plowman (News)
> wrote:
> In article >, Jim Lesurf
> > wrote:

> > Alas, the internet seems to have killed off being able to find
> > old-fashioned specialist secondhand book/mag dealers who will talk to
> > you and accept payment via "cheque in the post". So since I can't get
> > to audiojumbles, fairs, etc, I find it hard to get issues of the old
> > magazines.

> I'm afraid all this sort of thing has gone to Ebay these days. Something
> my brother won't accept either. ;-)

I can understand why professional second-hand book dealers use the net,
ebay, etc. But what seems strange is that they now neglect simply enabling
the *added* custom which they could still get simply by making their
contact info available for people who want to buy/sell by other means.

As your comment confirms, I'm not the only person who'd buy that way if
they could be bothered to realise it.

Similarly, their attending fairs, jumbles, etc, make sense. But it seems
odd for them to then fail to allow potential customers to buy from them via
post, and advertising their contact details, etc, on their websites. Again
I can see why the organisers of *fairs* don't want the dealers to bypass
them, but why don't the dealers make their contact details available by
other means? Having your own website is cheap and easy enough these days.

Is it just lazyness, or a lack of thought, I wonder? Or do they find it
easier to dodge tax this way, maybe?

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
Jim Lesurf > wrote:
> > I'm afraid all this sort of thing has gone to Ebay these days.
> > Something my brother won't accept either. ;-)

> I can understand why professional second-hand book dealers use the net,
> ebay, etc. But what seems strange is that they now neglect simply
> enabling the *added* custom which they could still get simply by making
> their contact info available for people who want to buy/sell by other
> means.

> As your comment confirms, I'm not the only person who'd buy that way if
> they could be bothered to realise it.

> Similarly, their attending fairs, jumbles, etc, make sense. But it seems
> odd for them to then fail to allow potential customers to buy from them
> via post, and advertising their contact details, etc, on their websites.
> Again I can see why the organisers of *fairs* don't want the dealers to
> bypass them, but why don't the dealers make their contact details
> available by other means? Having your own website is cheap and easy
> enough these days.

My brother's passion is models. Things like Dinky toys, etc. The model
club he belongs to has just held their last fair. Despite advertising it
in the local press etc, not enough attended it to cover the costs - a
trend which has been happening over the last few years.

> Is it just lazyness, or a lack of thought, I wonder? Or do they find it
> easier to dodge tax this way, maybe?

I dunno. You'd have to see some figures of Ebay sales versus the rest.
Ebay is simply such a convenient way to buy and sell these days.

--
*War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Jim Lesurf[_2_]]

In article >, Dave Plowman (News)
> wrote:

> > Is it just lazyness, or a lack of thought, I wonder? Or do they find
> > it easier to dodge tax this way, maybe?

> I dunno. You'd have to see some figures of Ebay sales versus the rest.
> Ebay is simply such a convenient way to buy and sell these days.

I can see how it will *appear* so to sellers. But it then tends to lead to
them not being aware of how many customers they may *miss* if they fail to
provide and offer alternatives. If you are selling for a living you also
depend on being able to maximise how many people can buy from you, and
compete for what you offer. Relying on *just* one method - and one where
other (big tax-dodging ex-UK companies) take a cut and some control over
your market access and cashflow - seems unwise. Recipy for reducing your
income.

But of course, if they stay stuck in that box, they can't even hear when
someone says any of the above.

FWIW for some other companies who apparently only work via website and
'card' interface I *have* found they will also function happily via cheque,
emails, etc. The problem is the traders who provide no way to even talk to
them, or find out where/who they are.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Brian Gaff]

Sites like wherehshallwego and streetlife seem to get lots of adverts for
craft or collectors fairs etc in them, and I often wonder if people dogo to
these.
One of the problems with having physical fairs these days is the escalating
costs of hiring the venue and the tables and if power is needed it costs an
arm and a leg, health and saftety, places to park etc.
This seems to be many of the issues.
I mean, I had a chat with thelocal librarylast week and they told me that
the council holls joined to many libraries had been takenaway from them for
free use and now they have to pay the going rate from their budget. This has
resulted in many free events put on, say book fairs where the library had a
free stand and the room was discounted, has just stopped happening.
Brian

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"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Jim Lesurf > wrote:
>> > I'm afraid all this sort of thing has gone to Ebay these days.
>> > Something my brother won't accept either. ;-)
>
>> I can understand why professional second-hand book dealers use the net,
>> ebay, etc. But what seems strange is that they now neglect simply
>> enabling the *added* custom which they could still get simply by making
>> their contact info available for people who want to buy/sell by other
>> means.
>
>> As your comment confirms, I'm not the only person who'd buy that way if
>> they could be bothered to realise it.
>
>> Similarly, their attending fairs, jumbles, etc, make sense. But it seems
>> odd for them to then fail to allow potential customers to buy from them
>> via post, and advertising their contact details, etc, on their websites.
>> Again I can see why the organisers of *fairs* don't want the dealers to
>> bypass them, but why don't the dealers make their contact details
>> available by other means? Having your own website is cheap and easy
>> enough these days.
>
> My brother's passion is models. Things like Dinky toys, etc. The model
> club he belongs to has just held their last fair. Despite advertising it
> in the local press etc, not enough attended it to cover the costs - a
> trend which has been happening over the last few years.
>
>> Is it just lazyness, or a lack of thought, I wonder? Or do they find it
>> easier to dodge tax this way, maybe?
>
> I dunno. You'd have to see some figures of Ebay sales versus the rest.
> Ebay is simply such a convenient way to buy and sell these days.
>
> --
> *War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
>
> Dave Plowman London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[RJH[_4_]]

On 25/03/2016 09:20, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article >, Dave Plowman (News)
> > wrote:
>
>>> Is it just lazyness, or a lack of thought, I wonder? Or do they find
>>> it easier to dodge tax this way, maybe?
>
>> I dunno. You'd have to see some figures of Ebay sales versus the rest.
>> Ebay is simply such a convenient way to buy and sell these days.
>
> I can see how it will *appear* so to sellers. But it then tends to lead to
> them not being aware of how many customers they may *miss* if they fail to
> provide and offer alternatives. If you are selling for a living you also
> depend on being able to maximise how many people can buy from you, and
> compete for what you offer. Relying on *just* one method - and one where
> other (big tax-dodging ex-UK companies) take a cut and some control over
> your market access and cashflow - seems unwise. Recipy for reducing your
> income.
>
> But of course, if they stay stuck in that box, they can't even hear when
> someone says any of the above.
>
> FWIW for some other companies who apparently only work via website and
> 'card' interface I *have* found they will also function happily via cheque,
> emails, etc. The problem is the traders who provide no way to even talk to
> them, or find out where/who they are.
>

It is a shame - I wish there was more opportunity for communication, and
it can be disconcerting.

But the ebay traders and the like can simply take the hit - some have
upwards of a million transactions with feedback - so probably many more
than that. To build in the capacity to deal with cheques, written
correspondence, technical assistance and a phone help line for example
would cut slender margins further.

There are many other downsides, but cost and ease of use seem to rule
the day. Maybe it'll start to slide back . . .


--
Cheers, Rob

[Jim Lesurf[_2_]]

In article >, RJH >
wrote:
> On 25/03/2016 09:20, Jim Lesurf wrote:

> >
> > The problem is the traders who provide no way to even talk to them, or
> > find out where/who they are.
> >

> It is a shame - I wish there was more opportunity for communication, and
> it can be disconcerting.

Yes. When it comes to buying things like music or videos I quite often want
to discuss the versions available with a seller. Extension of being able to
examine them in a real shop when I'm not sure which version to choose. It
also tests the knowledge of the sellers.


> But the ebay traders and the like can simply take the hit - some have
> upwards of a million transactions with feedback - so probably many more
> than that.

But of course many second-hand dealers are far smaller than that and may
simply have some boxes of items in their back room. For them, having more
lines of accessibility may be wise.

> To build in the capacity to deal with cheques, written
> correspondence, technical assistance and a phone help line for example
> would cut slender margins further.

But of course finding a dealer who *will* talk to you may then lead to the
customer being more likely to buy at a higher price *and* come back to that
dealer as their first port of call when they want something else.


> There are many other downsides, but cost and ease of use seem to rule
> the day. Maybe it'll start to slide back . . .

I suspect it will in due time. I doubt *every* trader will do so. But I
expect some of the smaller ones to realise there is a niche set of
potential purchasers who would pay more and come to them if/when they do.

BTW wrt 'historic', I just bought the new Hi Fi World magazine and found a
nice article on the Armstrong 600s. :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article >,
Tim Streater > wrote:
> >You do make it sound like cheques were some form of ancient universal
> >payment system which must be kept at all costs. But it's not so. My
> >parents never had a current acount. Although they did have a bank
> >account or two. And I'm willing to bet many 'youngsters' don't have a
> >chequebook these days either.

> I'm glad to see you acknowledge that cheques constitute a universal
> payments system.

I actually said the reverse. ;-)

> But I'd be happy to see the demise of cheques,

It has more or less already happened. I really can't remember the last
time I used one.

> provided they are replaced by some other equally universal system that
> is not subject to hackers.

Cheques will be processed electronically anyway? And they're hardly fraud
proof.

--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Vir Campestris]

On 24/03/2016 13:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I still have some old mags, but now of course
> cannot bloody read them!

Can't you OCR them, then use speech to text? Or is the technology just
not good enough yet?

Andy

[Jim Lesurf[_2_]]

In article >, Vir
Campestris > wrote:
> On 24/03/2016 13:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
> > I still have some old mags, but now of course cannot bloody read them!

> Can't you OCR them, then use speech to text? Or is the technology just
> not good enough yet?

I've been scanning a number of ancient magazine issues over the last year
or two. Getting a good scan and a good OCR can be quite time consuming for
some of the older examples in poorer condition. And of course, one factor
is that I have to examine by eye the scanned results to decide what to do
to alter the next scan attempt, etc.

For, say, mags from many decades ago, the paper will often be very yellowed
and dirty and probably also scuffed, etc. The printing may have also
smudged in some cases. Depends on the age and condition as well as the
paper and printing process used.

Have a look at the first image on
http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/reviews/valve/ValveEra.html
for an example of some pages of the kind you may be faced with scanning and
OCRing. Possible, but requires some work.

So I fear that for someone with serious vision impairment, its sometimes a
chicken and egg problem unless the magazine is in excellent condition and
the text is crisp clear plain black on white. (Some more recent magazines
in colour can be a real pain as you may have to process out the colour to
get sufficient contrast, etc, for a good OCR.)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html