"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , RobH
nospam@nospam-
echo-xray-papa-charlie-oscar-november.co.uk writes

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

Worth comparing to the output from a digital satellite or cable
system
- these carry (most of) the same channels as DAB, typically at
higher
quality.

I have no access to digital satellite or cable (landlord issues,
plus
I wouldn't want to be paying the monthly subscription anyway.),
sadly.
It's DAB or nothing, and I'd like to be able to pick up radio
somehow
(I
could consider an analogue tuner, I guess).
It's never DAB or nothing. I'd only recommended DAB over FM if you
absolutely must have a digital only station or your FM reception is
really abysmal. Tony's advice on a tuner or Freeview is good but if
you
go down the Freeview route make sure you get a STB with a digital
output.

Then you'll need a DAC which will bump up the budget somewhat..
No you don't. You can still use the analogue outputs but the digital
output can be used with the minidisc player.


If you go for an analogue tuner the Denon TU 260 MK2 is an
excellent
choice, spend a few bob on a good aerial and it will outshine DAB.
Or get a DTV freeview box as the audio on these is quite good. If
your
in the right area for DTV then this is a viable alternative..

As to your other quest why not consider some second-hand vintage
gear
like a QUAD 33/303 these are still very good value for the money.
Nice idea and being a Quad owner I should support this but the 33 pre
will be a pain 'cos of its limited amount of I/O. Strictly for the
enthusiasts only IMHO.

Well you can modify the disc input for CD levels quite simply that
will
give U 4 inputs..
True but still not enough inputs for the posters IMHO.


--
RobH
The future's dim, the future's mono.

In article , Keith G wrote:
"Andrew Walkingshaw" wrote in message
...

What help have you had so far then? - Try eBAy (as if....) and 'don't spend
half your budget on wires' in what? - 45 posts? That's major league trolling

Off the top of my head,

* Yes, it is possible to get a better than random-midi-system setup
for my budget (so I'm not just going to toddle down to Dixons'
with my credit card, then.)

* If I'm buying a new turntable, the Pro-ject Debut is the best on the
market.

* Consider digital TV instead of DAB (though I have the problem here
of not being able to fit a rooftop aerial: can DAB be made to work
with internal aerials?)

I hadn't even _thought_ about that one. Freeview boxes are about as
cheap as DAB tuners (~ 70ukp being what Richer want for their Acoustic
Solutions tuner) too...

* Richer Sounds' bundles are worth consideration; the Mission m71s are
apparently nice speakers, having googled after they were mentioned.
(Also, RS apparently aren't a bunch of terrifying ripoff merchants, so
I'm a bit happier about dealing with them now.)

* At my budget, as long as cables are "all right", they aren't going to
make an enormous difference to the sound of my system. Ditto
interconnects, though apparently they can make audible differences, or
not, though I'd rather (in general) eat ice-cream than stand in it.

* Yes, I *do* need speaker stands; "bookcase" is evidently a description
of size, not placement...

Believe it or not, all of these are new to me: and I did google the
ukra archives. (I couldn't find much this side of 2000, using "budget"
and "starter" as search terms. I clearly lack Google Karma right now.)

of the highest order in my book! (If you weren't trolling, some of the
really lame trolls in here could 'learn' from you! :-)

I'm *not* *bloody* *trolling!* I'm on the verge of killfiling the
interconnects thread, and when some bands I like only issue CDs, and
some only issue weird-coloured 10" vinyl which I currently can't play
(see the fact that there are two different mixes of Wire's "Send" album
- one on CD, and one on vinyl - and I want to be able to hear both,
given as I *really* love Wire, for instance.), I can't think of what
else to do but get a turntable and a CD player. That way I can listen to
whatever music I want to. (Also, getting a turntable lets me start
looking at interesting old music/second-hand stuff, which is currently a
closed book to me.)

Oh, and if you check my posting history in rec.games.go, you'll see
my attitude to the resident trolls is somewhat less than entirely
tolerant. I'm surprised and depressed at the level of venom going on
here, but screaming "PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF $DEITY, STOP!" at my
monitor isn't going to do much good, is it. :/

First off, forget eBay unless you know what you are doing or you may well
end up with a pile of busted crap and your (presumably 'one time' for the
forseeable) budget gone.

This is why eBay scares me in general. I know a fair amount about PC
hardware, but I'd be loath to buy any fragile electronics sight unseen,
unless it was *really* cheap.

If you are interested, I can let you have an old (but works perfectly fine)
Rotel TT for £25 (Has a brand new £15 needle on it, so the deck ain't gonna
cost you a lot, is it?). - Ask Ray what he thinks of it - he's loaned it and
it couldn't have been too bad for him as it's got him back into the black
stuff with a vengeance!

I'm certainly interested in this, though the slight problem is (not
being a driver) I have no means of transport other than public
transport. I'll mail you off-group about this later.

Then, as time goes by, you can replace these bits and bobs with better kit
at the *right* price as it comes up. One day, with your PhD in the bag you
will be on serious wonga and can go totally Mark Levinson or summat! The
trick (with a limited or 'one-time' budget) is to see *you* get the most out
of it - not some frickin' shopkeeper!

Indeed. I'm just looking for something which a) lets me play music which
I want to listen to - particularly my CD collection and any vinyl which
happens to come my way; b) sounds nice (particularly compared to the
Aiwa micro-system I currently use); c) is of decent quality/durability/
value (because I don't want to waste what disposable income I have.)

Thanks for your help!
- Andrew

"Don Pearce" wrote in message


On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:01:11 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

Your argument has shifted. "Hearing a difference" is a long way from
"in fact" being different. It is as I proposed, that you are
accepting the perception as being the fact, not the difference. I
can agree with this completely. All perceptions are personal and
require no justification.

It hasn't shifted at all. Partly because I wasn't arguing in the
first place and partly because 1) Fact: A difference was perceived
2) Fact: A cable instigated that perception.

Known in the trade as retrenching.

In your world how many people are required to hear a difference
before it becomes a 'fact'?

In mine it only takes one.

In Hamster's world it takes zero, as I defined hearing. ...as hearing is
commonly defined.

So you believe in proof by assertion?

The goal of every radical subjectivist like Hamster is to have people
believe and act on what he says merely because he says it.

Call it the absolute monarch syndrome, if you like.

Doesn't impress me, I'm afraid.

That's because you have a brain and know how to use it.

Every single person in the world could claim that 2 + 2 is 5, and it
still wouldn't make it so.

That would be a new kind of arithmetic for sure. But, since math is an
abstraction...

No, to turn an assertion into a fact requires a proof. Without that
you are simply gibbering.

But we're not supposed to know that.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:34:59 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

So you believe in proof by assertion? Doesn't impress me, I'm afraid.
Every single person in the world could claim that 2 + 2 is 5, and it
still wouldn't make it so.

Who said anything about proof?

No, to turn an assertion into a fact requires a proof. Without that
you are simply gibbering.

It's a fact he heard a difference. The requirements of proof are a
wholly different argument. One in which I have no interest in taking
part.

Facts can exist without proof, they just aren't proven facts.

Good grief! That's more ******** than I can deal with. Life calls.

Bye!

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 16:56:27 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

I'm just surprised it took you this long to figure out I was taking the
****. I would have thought the post where I used lots of 'facts' might
have given you a clue.

Ho hum.

Mea culpa. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you
believed you were talking sense.

Won't happen again. I now know you.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article ,
MrBitsy wrote:
Now let me see - you weren't giving advice to the OP, but actually
were?

Your about as thick as the custard you mention in a moment.

My what is as thick? Oh - you mean 'you are'?


*You* might think you heard a difference, but you're fooling
yourself.

I did hear the difference. So did my friend, who didn't know what
interconnect was on the system but preferred the sound of one set
over another.

Of course he did. Anything for an easy life. Arguing with you is like
trying to wrap custard in newspaper. Does your wife ever say anything
other than "Yes, dear" ?


Me puts cable a in system. Friend says sound is very nice. Me puts cable
b in system. Friend says it has got too much bass in it.

A cable with bass gain. Think you've just invented a new law of physics.

Now, this difference in the sound could be down to the cables, an
inadequacy in my system or a problem with our ears. Quite frankly, I
couldn't give a **** where the problem was. Cable 'a' sounded better so
thats the one I purchased.

Mr Plowman, tell us what cables you use, how much they cost, where you
got them from and what decesion process you used to choose them.

I don't use any one brand of cable, or indeed any one type. And I
certainly wouldn't use any which altered the sound. It would be of
inadequate specification, regardless of the advertising claims.

If you use a cable which attenuates either end of the frequency spectrum
and this suits you, fair enough - but this means you've made a poor choice
of the equipment it's feeding.

Oh, and if you mention my wife in that way again, I do promise I will
not be pleased. Be careful.

I was being rather complimentary to her. She must have the patience of a
saint.

--
*Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"MrBitsy" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
.. .

snip

Right, enough of that, let's back my bit of fun up with some real help.

Wait for it....


First off, forget eBay unless you know what you are doing or you may
well
end up with a pile of busted crap and your (presumably 'one time' for
the
forseeable) budget gone.

Right, don't buy second hand he says....



Get it right Ray - I said 'forget eBay unless you know what you're doing'
and he has already said he doesn't. I traditionally have advised people in
Andrews situation to buy decent secondhand from a dealer who will give 6
months guarantee on it. I'm less inclined to do this now because budget
stereo gear has hit the floor pricewise and a lot of the p/x stuff in the
local shops (FWIW) is utter crap!

Now, having said that, I got a Technics SE-A2000 to play with (in a valves
vs SS sort of way) tonight. Anybody know anything about them - original
price etc?




If you are interested, I can let you have an old (but works perfectly
fine)
Rotel TT for £25 (Has a brand new £15 needle on it, so the deck ain't
gonna
cost you a lot, is it?). - Ask Ray what he thinks of it - he's loaned it
and
it couldn't have been too bad for him as it's got him back into the
black
stuff with a vengeance!

But then he comes in with the killer punch to buy second hand and he wants
me as a character witness too - you have to admire his style LOL!


Style? - You're making me look like an 'operator'!


If you look at the list I offered him:

TT (with new stylus)
Speakers (Choice of two pairs, both very good....)
CDP
Receiver (that's an amp and a tuner, Ray....) which is a bit 'busted (ie
works but needs sorting out)

For the price of the deck alone! You know, Ray - like a favour to get him
started and that's a 'killer punch'!



Seriously though, I can say the Rotel deck is a steal for £25 - heck, that
is a good bet for bargain of the week!


Damn right it is! Take out the £15 quid for the stylus which had about 10
minutes on it before you borrowed it and it don't leave a whole lot for the
deck, does it?




I can let you have either of two pairs of perfectly fine (very nice
actually
and not small - 3 way jobbies) Wharfedale speakers for another £25 and
will
give you FOC a little Sanyo CDP (ex 'midi system) with a dim LCD display
that used to belong to my youngest son. (Plays CDs - what can I say?)

Hang on a minute - why didn't the deck I bought off you come with some
speakers and a cd player, I could have taken those little floorstanders
off
your hands ;-)


We can talk.......



That leaves you just wanting an amp and a DAB tuner and £400 left to do
it
with - easy peasy! (You can get a DAB portable with Line Outs now for
£100,
I believe...) In fact, if you can fix (or get fixed) a dodgy (but
gorgeous)
old 70s H H Scott receiver of (I think) quite awesome power, I'll throw
that
in FOC as well.


Don't listen to him - you can get some really good interconnects for £400.


I'll sell him two sets of QED Silver Spiral for only half that if he wants
'em!


There, can't say fairer than that, can I? All you've got to do is come
belting up (or down) the A1 and you're sorted. We'll hook it all up and
if
you think it sounds OK, off you go. If you don't **** what money you've
got
left away on something 'unnecessary' it'll leave you a good wad for
some.
er, 'software'.....


Ooh, and I bet Keith knows somebody that could help you there!


(What, like mint Kate's Bush at about 2 quid a slice less than Nemesis
Records are charging? ;-)


OK? Now bugger off and bug Plowturd or summat.......

A certain MrBitsy, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :

'If putting on my wife's suspenders on while standing in a tub of vanilla
ice cream makes the sound of my system improve, then I will be visiting
Marks and spencer soon for an underweare makeover'.

"I will be taking panadols for my cancer, I'm hoping the placebo effect
will work"

--

"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com

A certain MrBitsy, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :

Now, this difference in the sound could be down to the cables, an inadequacy
in my system or a problem with our ears. Quite frankly, I couldn't give a
**** where the problem was. Cable 'a' sounded better so thats the one I
purchased.

It's okay that you're happy to con yourself - and admit that you will
allow yourself to be conned. Some of us like to keep our money to spend
on other things, like speakers for example.

--

"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com

A certain Kurt Hamster, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :

Can you get the notion into your biased skull that if someone thinks
they hear a difference then they are in fact hearing a difference?

Do ghosts really exist then ?

--

"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com