Copying LPs onto CDs
 

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 23:28:27 -0000
"harrogate" wrote:

The types that go dark blue will often
not play on any music CD player.

Just to add some information...

CD players sensors work in the near infra-red and so will be unaffected by any 'tinting' that passes infra-red.

this means that what you see (being in the visible part of the spectrum) makes NO difference to the ability of the player to read the disc.

It so happens that often visible colour characteristics o hand-in-hand with infra-red ones, and there are a limited number of different types of CD-R(W) out there.

Just making the point that you shouldnt assume that one 'blue' disc has the same characteristics as another equally 'blue' looking one.

(and just to cover my arse here, Im *not* implying that different coloured CDs sound different, assuming they can be read properly at all).

;-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

Copying LPs onto CDs
 

In article , harrogate
wrote:

Most car players have three lasers, two to keep the head in the right
place - i.e. tracking - and one to read.

Is that correct? My understanding is that some drives have 'three spot'
laser systems. However these, IIUC, only use one laser, and have splitters
in the optics to form three spots on the information layer. These are then
sensed, and the comparisons for all three spots are used symultaneously for
both data recovery and tracking.

As a result most will, or at least should, play anything.

Check the CD blanks you are using to make sure they are the variety that
either stay nearly silver after writing or go a slightly greenish-gold
colour. These are usually the best. The types that go dark blue will
often not play on any music CD player.

I have tended to use TDK CDRs. IIRC these are dark blue, and they play OK
on all the audio players I have. (Meridian, Quad, Marantz, and now even a
cheap DVD/VHS combo.)


I use the DataSafe brand from computer fairs and wrte them at 48x: very
few have any problems at all.

Maybe that is the difference. I record at 1x from other sources using an
audio recorder. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Copying LPs onto CDs
 

In article , harrogate
wrote:

Most car players have three lasers, two to keep the head in the right
place - i.e. tracking - and one to read.

Is that correct? My understanding is that some drives have 'three spot'
laser systems. However these, IIUC, only use one laser, and have splitters
in the optics to form three spots on the information layer. These are then
sensed, and the comparisons for all three spots are used symultaneously for
both data recovery and tracking.

As a result most will, or at least should, play anything.

Check the CD blanks you are using to make sure they are the variety that
either stay nearly silver after writing or go a slightly greenish-gold
colour. These are usually the best. The types that go dark blue will
often not play on any music CD player.

I have tended to use TDK CDRs. IIRC these are dark blue, and they play OK
on all the audio players I have. (Meridian, Quad, Marantz, and now even a
cheap DVD/VHS combo.)


I use the DataSafe brand from computer fairs and wrte them at 48x: very
few have any problems at all.

Maybe that is the difference. I record at 1x from other sources using an
audio recorder. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Copying LPs onto CDs
 

"Clive Backham" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:34:34 -0000, "Andy Jacob"
wrote:

The first problem is that the Singulator program doesn't appear to
split the tracks so that a new WAV file is begun at the starts of a
new track. That's if it detects the gap between tracks at all. I've
tried adjusting the settings but it seems a very hit-or-miss
affair. I
end up having to cut and paste bits of WAV files myself.

Rule #1 when transferring LPs: don't attempt to split the tracks as
you record. Just record the entire side as a single large WAV file.
Automatic detection of track boundaries WILL fail sometimes. (And I
say this as the vendor of a program which attempts to do it). As you
have found, if you try splitting as you record, you just end up
having
to stitch bits back together again, which can be very tedious.

Mmm - this makes sense.

Next, do any tidying up/restoration if you wish. There are a
plethora
of programs out there you can try. I have written up some notes at
www.delback.co.uk/lp-cdr.htm that you might find helpful.

Only as a final step should you split the big WAV file into separate
files for each track, using a program that allows you to adjust
incorrectly placed split points, such as CD Wave (www.cdwave.com) or
my own program Wave Repair (www.waverepair.com)

I've downloaded these programs and had a little play with them. CD
Wave is a nice little program but I found Wave Repair a bit too big
and complicated. I think it is trying to do too much. CD Wave would be
perfect if it only allowed you to 'tweak' the cue-points. I could then
continue to use a seperate WAV file editor to do my cleanup. I'll give
this program a go though.

The second problem is that, even though my LPs are not in bad
condition, I do get the occasional skip. Consequently I can't
really
leave the PC to record one side of an album by itself.

I guess this seems to go in the face of my advice above. That said,
you really should try to get the turntable sorted so that it doesn't
skip. The most common causes of skipping are a too low tracking
force
and/or incorrectly set anti-skating. Set the tracking force at or
close to the maximum recommended for your cartridge. Anti-skating
may
need to be set by trial and error. Other possible reasons for
skipping
could be faulty arm bearings or incorrect cartridge alignment.

I'm not sure it's the turntable's fault, rather its the records. The
turntable is a standard Sony turntable separate (model no. PS-LX56)
about 6 years old. Plays most records ok and sound quality is fine but
some records must have minor scratches on them or something. If I was
just listening to a record and it started jumping, I would just nudge
the needle and it would continue but if this happens when I'm
recording, I'd end up with loads of repeats. Sometimes, just cleaning
that section of the record again fixes the problem.

Playability of CDRs is a combination of burner, media, burn speed
and
playback device. Best bet would be to try out different brands/types
of CDR media to see if any of them play OK in the car when burned at
higher speeds. Last time I saw any statistics, it was generally
found
that error rates stay pretty constant up to around 8x-12x burn
speed,
but above that they begin to climb.

I'll perhaps try a different brand of CD next time but right now I've
got a stack load of PC World's PC-Line discs to use up. Get what you
pay for I guess

AJ

Copying LPs onto CDs
 

"Clive Backham" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:34:34 -0000, "Andy Jacob"
wrote:

The first problem is that the Singulator program doesn't appear to
split the tracks so that a new WAV file is begun at the starts of a
new track. That's if it detects the gap between tracks at all. I've
tried adjusting the settings but it seems a very hit-or-miss
affair. I
end up having to cut and paste bits of WAV files myself.

Rule #1 when transferring LPs: don't attempt to split the tracks as
you record. Just record the entire side as a single large WAV file.
Automatic detection of track boundaries WILL fail sometimes. (And I
say this as the vendor of a program which attempts to do it). As you
have found, if you try splitting as you record, you just end up
having
to stitch bits back together again, which can be very tedious.

Mmm - this makes sense.

Next, do any tidying up/restoration if you wish. There are a
plethora
of programs out there you can try. I have written up some notes at
www.delback.co.uk/lp-cdr.htm that you might find helpful.

Only as a final step should you split the big WAV file into separate
files for each track, using a program that allows you to adjust
incorrectly placed split points, such as CD Wave (www.cdwave.com) or
my own program Wave Repair (www.waverepair.com)

I've downloaded these programs and had a little play with them. CD
Wave is a nice little program but I found Wave Repair a bit too big
and complicated. I think it is trying to do too much. CD Wave would be
perfect if it only allowed you to 'tweak' the cue-points. I could then
continue to use a seperate WAV file editor to do my cleanup. I'll give
this program a go though.

The second problem is that, even though my LPs are not in bad
condition, I do get the occasional skip. Consequently I can't
really
leave the PC to record one side of an album by itself.

I guess this seems to go in the face of my advice above. That said,
you really should try to get the turntable sorted so that it doesn't
skip. The most common causes of skipping are a too low tracking
force
and/or incorrectly set anti-skating. Set the tracking force at or
close to the maximum recommended for your cartridge. Anti-skating
may
need to be set by trial and error. Other possible reasons for
skipping
could be faulty arm bearings or incorrect cartridge alignment.

I'm not sure it's the turntable's fault, rather its the records. The
turntable is a standard Sony turntable separate (model no. PS-LX56)
about 6 years old. Plays most records ok and sound quality is fine but
some records must have minor scratches on them or something. If I was
just listening to a record and it started jumping, I would just nudge
the needle and it would continue but if this happens when I'm
recording, I'd end up with loads of repeats. Sometimes, just cleaning
that section of the record again fixes the problem.

Playability of CDRs is a combination of burner, media, burn speed
and
playback device. Best bet would be to try out different brands/types
of CDR media to see if any of them play OK in the car when burned at
higher speeds. Last time I saw any statistics, it was generally
found
that error rates stay pretty constant up to around 8x-12x burn
speed,
but above that they begin to climb.

I'll perhaps try a different brand of CD next time but right now I've
got a stack load of PC World's PC-Line discs to use up. Get what you
pay for I guess

AJ

Copying LPs onto CDs
 

"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi Andy - it is a labour of love ... I can produce cds pretty quick
now:

Record the LP (hopefully it won't stick etc!) as 2 wavs;

Have a track/time listing handy. I use Music Wizard to do this
before the
rip (also creates a cd case insert), psychicmp3* to do it after if
necessary;

Open the wav in an editor and copy and paste each track as new
files,
labelling each with the track name as you go. You know the length of
the
files from the track listing you printed out earlier. Useful
particularly
for live albums, or any where tracks overlap with no silence.

It takes me less than 5 minutes per lp after recording this way. Any
huge
clicks and pops I edit out by 'bending' the signal**, this takes
longer.

Rob

*superb free prog that recognises names etc of mp3s
** magnify the portion where the click is and join the 'spike' at
it's
lowest point. Use sonic foundry etc to do this - very effective!

I think you're doing it the same way as I was trying. Unfortunately,
not many of my albums had track times displayed. Also, it takes me
more than 5 minutes per LP to prepare all the CD tracks.

How much cleaning up of each track do you do. I mean - do you check
the whole WAV file for jumps and clicks? This alone takes me about 5
minutes just to scan the whole file. Then if I find defects that need
cleaning up, that's more time.

I may get faster with time but I may not last that long.

AJ

Copying LPs onto CDs
 

"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi Andy - it is a labour of love ... I can produce cds pretty quick
now:

Record the LP (hopefully it won't stick etc!) as 2 wavs;

Have a track/time listing handy. I use Music Wizard to do this
before the
rip (also creates a cd case insert), psychicmp3* to do it after if
necessary;

Open the wav in an editor and copy and paste each track as new
files,
labelling each with the track name as you go. You know the length of
the
files from the track listing you printed out earlier. Useful
particularly
for live albums, or any where tracks overlap with no silence.

It takes me less than 5 minutes per lp after recording this way. Any
huge
clicks and pops I edit out by 'bending' the signal**, this takes
longer.

Rob

*superb free prog that recognises names etc of mp3s
** magnify the portion where the click is and join the 'spike' at
it's
lowest point. Use sonic foundry etc to do this - very effective!

I think you're doing it the same way as I was trying. Unfortunately,
not many of my albums had track times displayed. Also, it takes me
more than 5 minutes per LP to prepare all the CD tracks.

How much cleaning up of each track do you do. I mean - do you check
the whole WAV file for jumps and clicks? This alone takes me about 5
minutes just to scan the whole file. Then if I find defects that need
cleaning up, that's more time.

I may get faster with time but I may not last that long.

AJ

Copying LPs onto CDs
 

"Dave G" wrote...
"Andy Jacob" wrote in message
...
I saw the posts recently about copying LPs to CD and figured that
would be a good christmas present for someone I know so thought
I'd
have a go. But it's not working out to be the simple job I
imagined.

I got my hifi connected to my PC ok. Downloaded a program called
AIPL
Singulator to split the audio into separate tracks. Clean my LP,
start
the program, play the record - thought that would be it but I
should
be so lucky.

The first problem is that the Singulator program doesn't appear to
split the tracks so that a new WAV file is begun at the starts of
a
new track. That's if it detects the gap between tracks at all.
I've
tried adjusting the settings but it seems a very hit-or-miss
affair.
I
end up having to cut and paste bits of WAV files myself.

The second problem is that, even though my LPs are not in bad
condition, I do get the occasional skip. Consequently I can't
really
leave the PC to record one side of an album by itself. I have to
sit
around monitoring it and then jumping in if I spot a problem. As
I've
said - taking a lot of time - probably at least an hour per album.

Oh - and finally, for the CD player in the car to read the new CDs
I
have to burn them at the very slowest speed so that again means
more
time.

So all in all - I'm getting a bit fed up with this idea. Has
anyone
got any tips where I'm going wrong?

AJ

I tried doing this a while back but ended up giving up. It just
takes
too long. End the end I used Your Music On CD
(www.indicativeit.co.uk/yourmusiconcd) which seemed to do everything
for me.

Dave G

What is the audio quality like of the CDs? I mean, can you still hear
any background noise and clicks and stuff?

AJ

Copying LPs onto CDs
 

"Dave G" wrote...
"Andy Jacob" wrote in message
...
I saw the posts recently about copying LPs to CD and figured that
would be a good christmas present for someone I know so thought
I'd
have a go. But it's not working out to be the simple job I
imagined.

I got my hifi connected to my PC ok. Downloaded a program called
AIPL
Singulator to split the audio into separate tracks. Clean my LP,
start
the program, play the record - thought that would be it but I
should
be so lucky.

The first problem is that the Singulator program doesn't appear to
split the tracks so that a new WAV file is begun at the starts of
a
new track. That's if it detects the gap between tracks at all.
I've
tried adjusting the settings but it seems a very hit-or-miss
affair.
I
end up having to cut and paste bits of WAV files myself.

The second problem is that, even though my LPs are not in bad
condition, I do get the occasional skip. Consequently I can't
really
leave the PC to record one side of an album by itself. I have to
sit
around monitoring it and then jumping in if I spot a problem. As
I've
said - taking a lot of time - probably at least an hour per album.

Oh - and finally, for the CD player in the car to read the new CDs
I
have to burn them at the very slowest speed so that again means
more
time.

So all in all - I'm getting a bit fed up with this idea. Has
anyone
got any tips where I'm going wrong?

AJ

I tried doing this a while back but ended up giving up. It just
takes
too long. End the end I used Your Music On CD
(www.indicativeit.co.uk/yourmusiconcd) which seemed to do everything
for me.

Dave G

What is the audio quality like of the CDs? I mean, can you still hear
any background noise and clicks and stuff?

AJ

Copying LPs onto CDs
 

"Dave G" wrote...
"Andy Jacob" wrote in message
...
I saw the posts recently about copying LPs to CD and figured that
would be a good christmas present for someone I know so thought I'd
have a go. But it's not working out to be the simple job I imagined.

I got my hifi connected to my PC ok. Downloaded a program called
AIPL
Singulator to split the audio into separate tracks. Clean my LP,
start
the program, play the record - thought that would be it but I should
be so lucky.

The first problem is that the Singulator program doesn't appear to
split the tracks so that a new WAV file is begun at the starts of a
new track. That's if it detects the gap between tracks at all. I've
tried adjusting the settings but it seems a very hit-or-miss affair.
I
end up having to cut and paste bits of WAV files myself.

The second problem is that, even though my LPs are not in bad
condition, I do get the occasional skip. Consequently I can't really
leave the PC to record one side of an album by itself. I have to sit
around monitoring it and then jumping in if I spot a problem. As
I've
said - taking a lot of time - probably at least an hour per album.

Oh - and finally, for the CD player in the car to read the new CDs I
have to burn them at the very slowest speed so that again means more
time.

So all in all - I'm getting a bit fed up with this idea. Has anyone
got any tips where I'm going wrong?

AJ

I tried doing this a while back but ended up giving up. It just takes
too long. End the end I used Your Music On CD
(www.indicativeit.co.uk/yourmusiconcd) which seemed to do everything
for me.

Dave G

I've found the Your Music On CD site to be very good as well. They've
just transferred a load of my father's old vinyl records onto CD for
me to give to him as a christmas present. The CDs come with all the
usual labels and covers so the end product is very professional
looking and is ideal as a christmas present because they are so easy
to wrap up!

Cheers, Simon