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recording engineers still choose a mic for how it sounds, not for accuracy

Maybe what sounds good to them IS in fact 'accurate' to them. Maybe tubes are
exactly the same - musicians choose them for how they sound, and because that
sound is 'accurate' to their ears. Would you choose a car from the brochure
specs or would you drive it?

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Andy Evans" wrote in message


recording engineers still choose a mic for how it sounds, not for
accuracy

Maybe what sounds good to them IS in fact 'accurate' to them.

Maybe the world is flat.

Maybe
tubes are exactly the same - musicians choose them for how they
sound, and because that sound is 'accurate' to their ears.

Maybe the sun will rise in the West tomorrow.

Would you choose a car from the brochure specs or would you drive it?

Could a question be more poorly-founded and irrelevant?

No it isn't. Surely you would buy a car if the specs looked good without
actually buying it? Or would you have a test drive to see how it felt?

If the test drive felt good and you really enjoyed it, would you buy the car
from that or would you need to check the specs? Your rantings on here
suggest you wouldn't drive a car that felt brilliant if one of the specs was
0.01 percent out.

Mr Bitsy.

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On 21 Jul 2003 14:51:55 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

recording engineers still choose a mic for how it sounds, not for accuracy

Maybe what sounds good to them IS in fact 'accurate' to them.

Only if they can't tell the difference between "this sounds good" and
"this sounds the same", and/or can't tell the difference between the
situtations where such judgements are appropriate.

Maybe tubes are
exactly the same - musicians choose them for how they sound,

Yes.

and because that
sound is 'accurate' to their ears.

No. The use, by musicians, of valve pre- and power-amps is exactly
because they *don't* behave in an accurate fashion -- if they did, the
sound of a Les Paul through a Marsall 200W head or a Strat through a
Twin Reverb would sound exactly as it would putting the guitar through
the inputs of a modern, solid state hi-fi amplier :-(

A musican will chose a particular configuration of intrument, pre-amp,
amp, and speakers *to achieve a particular sound* - not (with
'electric' instruments, at least) to simply increase the amplitude of
the signal. However, once that sound is established most (if not all)
musicians will want to work with recording/reproduction methods that
capture that sound as accurately as possible.

Julian


--
Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk

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"MrBitsy" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Andy Evans" wrote in message


recording engineers still choose a mic for how it sounds, not for
accuracy

Maybe what sounds good to them IS in fact 'accurate' to them.

Maybe the world is flat.

Maybe
tubes are exactly the same - musicians choose them for how they
sound, and because that sound is 'accurate' to their ears.

Maybe the sun will rise in the West tomorrow.


Would you choose a car from the brochure specs or would you drive
it?

I have ordered, taken delivery of, and purchased a car with a combination of
options that I never drove until I actually had the car. This included
engine, transmission, and suspension.

Could a question be more poorly-founded and irrelevant?

No it isn't. Surely you would buy a car if the specs looked good
without actually buying it?

Been there, done that.

Or would you have a test drive to see how it felt?

Been there done that.

More to the point I've bought all kinds of audio components without
listening to them until I actually owned them. Amps, preamps, speakers, CD
players, turntables, arms cartridges, cables, tuners, tape decks...

If the test drive felt good and you really enjoyed it, would you buy
the car from that or would you need to check the specs?

I've never bought a car that I had not researched on paper. I've never
bought an audio component that I hadn't researched, either. I once bought a
tape deck based only on a listening test and I got burned.

Your rantings
on here suggest you wouldn't drive a car that felt brilliant if one
of the specs was 0.01 percent out.

You simply don't know what you are talking about.

Need a tube CD/SACD/DVD player!
 

On 21 Jul 2003 20:37:44 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

because that sound is 'accurate' to their ears.

No. The use, by musicians, of valve power-amps is because they *don't* behave
in an accurate fashion -- if they did a Les Paul (snip)

Why did you assume I meant stage gear? Musicians may (and do - I can give
examples) find that valve amps sound closer to live music when reproducing CDs.
Granted, with stage gear the distortion spectrum with overloaded valve stages
is a particular colour, but musicians also use valve amps to get a clean sound
because it's more dynamic and has more life.

Please stop this drivel. Some tiny minority of musicians may use valve
gear in their home music systems, but the *vast* majority use
solid-state, and you know it. The rest of your claims are bunkum,
since valve amps have *less* dynamic range than SS amps, due to higher
noise floors and lower power outputs. The sound is also *less* clean,
as valve amps have higher distortion than SS (all else being equal).

If *you* happen to like the particular sound of certain valve amps,
then that's fine for you, but please stop all this crap about valve
amps having *any* kind of technical advantage, because it just ain't
so.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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I once bought a tape deck based only on a listening test and I got
burned.(krueger)

Golden ears eh? I can see why you need the specs.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Need a tube CD/SACD/DVD player!
 

If *you* happen to like the particular sound of certain valve amps,
then that's fine for you, but please stop all this crap about valve
amps having *any* kind of technical advantage, because it just ain't
so.

If *you* happen to like the particular sound of solid state, then that's fine
for you, but please stop all this crap about solid state amps having *any* kind
of sonic advantage, because it just ain't so.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Need a tube CD/SACD/DVD player!
 

On 21 Jul 2003 20:37:44 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote:

because that sound is 'accurate' to their ears.

No. The use, by musicians, of valve power-amps is because they *don't* behave
in an accurate fashion -- if they did a Les Paul (snip)

Why did you assume I meant stage gear?

Because that's where you'll find the vast majority of valve technology
as its involved in the (re)production of music, maybe?

Musicians may (and do - I can give
examples) find that valve amps sound closer to live music when reproducing CDs.

.... which may say something about musicians' perception of live music
:-)

Granted, with stage gear the distortion spectrum with overloaded valve stages
is a particular colour, but musicians also use valve amps to get a clean sound
because it's more dynamic and has more life.

No, they use them because they like the results. A musician with
knowledge of the technology involved would also understand that valve
amps used this way do *not* produce a "clean" sound (assuming that
"clean" in this cases means accurate, free from distortion, etc.).

As with previous threads on this ng, I fail totally to understand how
a means of reproduction can be stated to have "more life" when it
demonstrably less "like life" compared to others ... it really does
puzzle me why pro-valve (just like pro-vinyl) folks seem to have a
need to validate their preferences by making claims with respect to
their chosen technology being "clean", "accurate", "lifelike", or
whatever ... why not simply state that you *like* the sound from
valves more than from SS!

Julian

--
Julian Fowler
julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk

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"Andy Evans" wrote in message


Musicians may (and do - I can
give examples) find that valve amps sound closer to live music when
reproducing CDs.

Musicians may commit suicide. What's your point?

Granted, with stage gear the distortion spectrum
with overloaded valve stages is a particular colour, but musicians
also use valve amps to get a clean sound because it's more dynamic
and has more life.

The vast majority of musicians listen to recordings with SS equipment. You
don't need to take a nationwide survey to know that only a very few still
use tubed equipment to play recordings.

Therefore the fact that a few musicians use tubed equipment to play
recordings for whatever reason is totally irrelevant to the sound quality of
tubed equipment.

Need a tube CD/SACD/DVD player!
 

"Julian Fowler" wrote in message


As with previous threads on this ng, I fail totally to understand how
a means of reproduction can be stated to have "more life" when it
demonstrably less "like life" compared to others

Don't feel strange. If I took this sort of thing seriously it could be a
headache for me, too.

... it really does
puzzle me why pro-valve (just like pro-vinyl) folks seem to have a
need to validate their preferences by making claims with respect to
their chosen technology being "clean", "accurate", "lifelike", or
whatever

Because it feeds their egos. Part of the vinyl syndrome and the tube
syndrome is feeling special and better than others because you are
different.

... why not simply state that you *like* the sound from
valves more than from SS!

Some who are in the tubed audio gear biz are even more frank than that. A
certain reasonably well-known Australian who has a good business selling
tubed amps he designs and builds says that he likes to build amps and he
can't make any money building solid state amps, so he builds tubed amps.