On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 19:51:20 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote:

In article . 39,
MrBitsy wrote:
Discerning ears! Your mantra is 'cd is better' regardless of what the
ears say!

Absolutely. I have discerning ears. You just like distortion. There's a
big difference.

No, you just prefer a different type of distortion. I find that the
harmonic distortion of 44k1 sampling hurts.

Please promise when you get your new newsgroup you'll stop ranting on here
about an obsolete system that just about everyone was glad to see the back
of?

As long as the digiphiles don't follow and continue their ranting...

Chris C

On 2 Jul 2003 11:43:28 GMT, (Chris Croughton)
wrote:

On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 19:51:20 +0100, Dave Plowman
wrote:

In article . 39,
MrBitsy wrote:
Discerning ears! Your mantra is 'cd is better' regardless of what the
ears say!

Absolutely. I have discerning ears. You just like distortion. There's a
big difference.

No, you just prefer a different type of distortion. I find that the
harmonic distortion of 44k1 sampling hurts.

Fascinating! You have discovered an entirely new distortion! A Nobel
Prize awaits! Now all you have to do is demonstrate the existence of
this phenomenon...............................

Please promise when you get your new newsgroup you'll stop ranting on here
about an obsolete system that just about everyone was glad to see the back
of?

As long as the digiphiles don't follow and continue their ranting...

That's expressly forbidden by the charter. Of course, vinylphiles
cocking things up technically (like you did above) will likely be
corrected. That's a good thing, no?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

In inside of
uk.net.news.config, 'Richard Ashton' wrote:

In uk.net.news.config on 2 Jul 2003 11:43:28 GMT, (Chris
Croughton) wrote:

}No, you just prefer a different type of distortion. I find that the
}harmonic distortion of 44k1 sampling hurts.

Anyone else remember Clive Sinclair's claims of 0.01% harmonic distortion on
his new Z80? Audio Amplifier.

Yes. Saw the adverts as a kid, I can remember reading them and
figuring it to be some sort of obfuscation. Never did find out.


We all thought this was fantastic until we realised that whilst techically
correct the pile of crap introduced 15% crossover distortion.

So crossover distortion doesn't produce harmonic distortion?
How'd the con trick work?



--
Dave J. - Back from the grey netherworld..

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 16:47:46 GMT, Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

On 2 Jul 2003 11:43:28 GMT, (Chris Croughton)
wrote:

No, you just prefer a different type of distortion. I find that the
harmonic distortion of 44k1 sampling hurts.

Fascinating! You have discovered an entirely new distortion! A Nobel
Prize awaits! Now all you have to do is demonstrate the existence of
this phenomenon...............................

No I haven't, a person by the name of Nyquist found it several decades
ago. Try playing a recording of a high organ note and look at it with a
decent spectrum analyser, or doing the maths.

Of course, if your input has been filtered so that you lose all the high
harmonics anyway then you won't see it, but then you might as well you
any old crap technology.

As long as the digiphiles don't follow and continue their ranting...

That's expressly forbidden by the charter. Of course, vinylphiles
cocking things up technically (like you did above) will likely be
corrected. That's a good thing, no?

Oh, so you are intending to read the group to make such 'corrections'?

Chris C

A certain Chris Croughton, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :

Absolutely. I have discerning ears. You just like distortion. There's a
big difference.

No, you just prefer a different type of distortion. I find that the
harmonic distortion of 44k1 sampling hurts.

Tell us more about this "harmonic distortion". Which harmonics do you
find get distorted ? Have you measured this ? Have you been able to
detect it through the dithering anti-aliasing filter built into all
modern CD players ?

Does this alleged distortion hurt when you listen to a vinyl LP
originally recorded on a digital master tape (most vinyl manufactured
from the mid-80s onwards..) ?

--

"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com

A certain Chris Croughton, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :

Fascinating! You have discovered an entirely new distortion! A Nobel
Prize awaits! Now all you have to do is demonstrate the existence of
this phenomenon...............................

No I haven't, a person by the name of Nyquist found it several decades
ago.

Nyquist predicted nothing about "harmonic distortion". He merely pointed
out that the maximum frequency accurately sampled would be half of the
recorded sampling frequency. 22Khz isn't too bad - even if the human ear
could hear that, an LP definitely isn't capable of reproducing it. So I
don't think you're making a fair comparison.

Let's call a spade a spade. I'll bet any money that if you hook your
vinyl player through a good quality 44.1khz A/D to D/A loop, you'll not
be able to detect a difference reliably in a double-blind test.

Try playing a recording of a high organ note and look at it with a
decent spectrum analyser, or doing the maths.

The CD won't reproduce frequencies above 22khz - but then again of
course, neither will the LP (outside of surface noise). Are you running
the spectrum analyser on the same music sourced from an LP ?

Of course, if your input has been filtered so that you lose all the high
harmonics anyway then you won't see it, but then you might as well you
any old crap technology.

Do you actually believe that the LP stores those high harmonics ?

--

"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com

A certain Kurt Hamster, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :

Tell us more about this "harmonic distortion". Which harmonics do you
find get distorted ? Have you measured this ? Have you been able to
detect it through the dithering anti-aliasing filter built into all
modern CD players ?

How about the harmonics, from say 25k, being totally missing?

That is not what "harmonic distortion" means. You're talking about a
steep frequency rolloff. Can you get 25Khz from an LP ? How do you
manage to hear it ?

Does this alleged distortion hurt when you listen to a vinyl LP
originally recorded on a digital master tape (most vinyl manufactured
from the mid-80s onwards..) ?

Most? Maybe, maybe not. In the late 80s a lot of studios still preferred
analogue tape.

TBH, I have no easy way of measuring exactly how many of them were
produced digitally. Just doing a quick cross-reference over my own small
vinyl collection.
--

"Jokes mentioning ducks were considered particularly funny." - cnn.com

"Kurt Hamster" wrote in message

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:29:27 +0100, Chesney Christ used
to say...

A certain Chris Croughton, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :

Absolutely. I have discerning ears. You just like distortion.
There's a big difference.

No, you just prefer a different type of distortion. I find that the
harmonic distortion of 44k1 sampling hurts.

Tell us more about this "harmonic distortion". Which harmonics do you
find get distorted ? Have you measured this ? Have you been able to
detect it through the dithering anti-aliasing filter built into all
modern CD players ?

How about the harmonics, from say 25k, being totally missing?

How about them being totally inaudible?

How about the vinyl approach to musical harmonics at 25 KHz being to
intermodulate them so they are smack dab in the middle of the audio band
where the ear is most sensitive?

Does this alleged distortion hurt when you listen to a vinyl LP
originally recorded on a digital master tape (most vinyl manufactured
from the mid-80s onwards..) ?

Most? Maybe, maybe not. In the late 80s a lot of studios still
preferred analogue tape.

Upgrade cost = $0.00. At least until they started getting bitten by "sticky
shed".

"Kurt Hamster" wrote in message

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:54:43 +0100, Chesney Christ used
to say...

A certain Kurt Hamster, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :

Tell us more about this "harmonic distortion". Which harmonics do
you find get distorted ? Have you measured this ? Have you been
able to detect it through the dithering anti-aliasing filter built
into all modern CD players ?

How about the harmonics, from say 25k, being totally missing?

That is not what "harmonic distortion" means. You're talking about a
steep frequency rolloff. Can you get 25Khz from an LP ? How do you
manage to hear it ?

Read what I wrote again.

It made no sense both times.

"Kurt Hamster" wrote in message

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:54:43 +0100, Chesney Christ used
to say...

A certain Kurt Hamster, of uk.rec.audio "fame", writes :

Tell us more about this "harmonic distortion". Which harmonics do
you find get distorted ? Have you measured this ? Have you been
able to detect it through the dithering anti-aliasing filter built
into all modern CD players ?

How about the harmonics, from say 25k, being totally missing?

That is not what "harmonic distortion" means. You're talking about a
steep frequency rolloff. Can you get 25Khz from an LP ? How do you
manage to hear it ?

Read what I wrote again.

It makes no sense, even the third time.