new cd player
 

From: "Tim S Kemp"
Subject:
Date: 04 January 2004 15:33

To make any meaningful contribution to Hi-Fi sound ALL sub woofers should
only ever be used in a room from which every particle of air has been
removed.

There are is only one aspect to home audio that matters - and that is
enjoyment. If your enjoyment comes from accuracy to the original (and most
people can rcognise good fidelity from bad) that's one thing, and a
subwoofer can help for music that was intended to be used with one
(especially music recorded for 5.1). If your enjoyment comes from feeling
the pulse of dance music, a subwoofer can help for that too.

Life is full of comprimises, we are all limited by space, budgets, spouses
taste in decor etc. Subwoofers have their place both in home cinema and
hi-fi, correctly balanced and set up (mines in a poor location) as much as
they do in the studio and live-sound setting.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 26/12/2003

new cd player
 

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.

Cheers

David

new cd player
 

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.

Cheers

David

new cd player
 

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:49:06 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"

Supposedly "properly set up" is not always "properly set up."

Kal

new cd player
 

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:49:06 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"

Supposedly "properly set up" is not always "properly set up."

Kal

new cd player
 

"David" wrote in message
...
To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.



If it helps, I'm with you all the way on this......

new cd player
 

"David" wrote in message
...
To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.



If it helps, I'm with you all the way on this......

new cd player
 

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:49:06 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.

Properly done, they most certainly do not put out 'mush', but I'll
agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

new cd player
 

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:49:06 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.

Properly done, they most certainly do not put out 'mush', but I'll
agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

new cd player
 

agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!
--

DIY a sub? Most are active, often with feedback. Occasionaly with digital
amps, motion sensors, set up software, room response algorythims..........

Given a big enough cabinet I could generate bass in (almost) any room.
Getting a quart out of a pint pot.....that is not something even the most
"throw money at it" R&D of B&W etc. has been able to do.

I hates dem,..... nasty, fat, subses...... (with appologies to Gollum)

new cd player
 

agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!
--

DIY a sub? Most are active, often with feedback. Occasionaly with digital
amps, motion sensors, set up software, room response algorythims..........

Given a big enough cabinet I could generate bass in (almost) any room.
Getting a quart out of a pint pot.....that is not something even the most
"throw money at it" R&D of B&W etc. has been able to do.

I hates dem,..... nasty, fat, subses...... (with appologies to Gollum)

new cd player
 

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:56:51 +0000 (UTC), (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:49:06 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.

Properly done, they most certainly do not put out 'mush', but I'll
agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!

Apropos of which, thanks for recommending the Tempest. I've had a
discourse with the technical chaps at Adire, and between us we came to
the conclusion that one of those in my big brick cupboard, implemented
as infinite baffle (which it approaches pretty closely) will give me,
with room gain, a flat response down to about 12Hz. Of course with a
total lack of any kind of tuned ports, the phase response and hence
perceived speed will be just great. I'm currently building the
mounting panel that will replace the door. Reports will follow...

I think that the biggest problem with subs generally is that a great
deal of music is mastered without them, and the subsonic mush that may
be present is simply not noticed. Of course back in vinyl days, it was
all rolled off in mastering anyway, but now with CDs that doesn't
happen unless somebody specifically thinks about it. The result can be
either great or horrible.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

new cd player
 

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:56:51 +0000 (UTC), (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:49:06 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.

Properly done, they most certainly do not put out 'mush', but I'll
agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!

Apropos of which, thanks for recommending the Tempest. I've had a
discourse with the technical chaps at Adire, and between us we came to
the conclusion that one of those in my big brick cupboard, implemented
as infinite baffle (which it approaches pretty closely) will give me,
with room gain, a flat response down to about 12Hz. Of course with a
total lack of any kind of tuned ports, the phase response and hence
perceived speed will be just great. I'm currently building the
mounting panel that will replace the door. Reports will follow...

I think that the biggest problem with subs generally is that a great
deal of music is mastered without them, and the subsonic mush that may
be present is simply not noticed. Of course back in vinyl days, it was
all rolled off in mastering anyway, but now with CDs that doesn't
happen unless somebody specifically thinks about it. The result can be
either great or horrible.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

new cd player
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 26/12/2003

new cd player
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 26/12/2003

new cd player
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 26/12/2003

new cd player
 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 26/12/2003

new cd player
 

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:13:37 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!
--

DIY a sub? Most are active, often with feedback. Occasionaly with digital
amps, motion sensors, set up software, room response algorythims..........

You can buy the 'plate' amps and drivers from Wilmslow Audio, or
import them from Madisound, or get them from audioparts.co.uk, or from
design3dw3.co.uk. All it takes is a little energy, and the will to
succeed!

Given a big enough cabinet I could generate bass in (almost) any room.
Getting a quart out of a pint pot.....that is not something even the most
"throw money at it" R&D of B&W etc. has been able to do.

Actually yes, all you need is a *very* powerful amplifier - you can
buy a kilowatt jobby from Madisound, and an Adire Tumult 15" driver
from design3dW3. Like I said, all it takes is a little willpower.....

I hates dem,..... nasty, fat, subses...... (with appologies to Gollum)

Me too - that's why mine will be unobtrusive and as tight as a kettle
drum - but less resonant! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

new cd player
 

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 20:13:37 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!
--

DIY a sub? Most are active, often with feedback. Occasionaly with digital
amps, motion sensors, set up software, room response algorythims..........

You can buy the 'plate' amps and drivers from Wilmslow Audio, or
import them from Madisound, or get them from audioparts.co.uk, or from
design3dw3.co.uk. All it takes is a little energy, and the will to
succeed!

Given a big enough cabinet I could generate bass in (almost) any room.
Getting a quart out of a pint pot.....that is not something even the most
"throw money at it" R&D of B&W etc. has been able to do.

Actually yes, all you need is a *very* powerful amplifier - you can
buy a kilowatt jobby from Madisound, and an Adire Tumult 15" driver
from design3dW3. Like I said, all it takes is a little willpower.....

I hates dem,..... nasty, fat, subses...... (with appologies to Gollum)

Me too - that's why mine will be unobtrusive and as tight as a kettle
drum - but less resonant! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

new cd player
 

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:38:57 +0000, Don Pearce
wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:56:51 +0000 (UTC), (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:49:06 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.

Properly done, they most certainly do not put out 'mush', but I'll
agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!

Apropos of which, thanks for recommending the Tempest. I've had a
discourse with the technical chaps at Adire, and between us we came to
the conclusion that one of those in my big brick cupboard, implemented
as infinite baffle (which it approaches pretty closely) will give me,
with room gain, a flat response down to about 12Hz. Of course with a
total lack of any kind of tuned ports, the phase response and hence
perceived speed will be just great. I'm currently building the
mounting panel that will replace the door. Reports will follow...

Apropos of that, download the Tempest white paper to get full T/S
specs, and check out what happens when you use the 'shorted coil'
option. I make it flat to 20Hz *anechoic*, with f10 at 10-11 Hz, and a
250 watt plate amp is more than adequate to 'Xmax out' up to 30Hz
driving two of them in a loft-mounted manifold.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

new cd player
 

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 21:38:57 +0000, Don Pearce
wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 19:56:51 +0000 (UTC), (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:49:06 +0000 (UTC), "David"
wrote:

To Tim and Jim

Hi guys - Can't agree about subs - even when supposedly "properly set up"
Maybe I'm just sensitive to the mush which they put out but they strike me
as this years "graphic equaliser" and the sooner they fall out of fashion
again, the better.

Properly done, they most certainly do not put out 'mush', but I'll
agree that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting
thing is that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a
better job with DIY than you can buy at any price!

Apropos of which, thanks for recommending the Tempest. I've had a
discourse with the technical chaps at Adire, and between us we came to
the conclusion that one of those in my big brick cupboard, implemented
as infinite baffle (which it approaches pretty closely) will give me,
with room gain, a flat response down to about 12Hz. Of course with a
total lack of any kind of tuned ports, the phase response and hence
perceived speed will be just great. I'm currently building the
mounting panel that will replace the door. Reports will follow...

Apropos of that, download the Tempest white paper to get full T/S
specs, and check out what happens when you use the 'shorted coil'
option. I make it flat to 20Hz *anechoic*, with f10 at 10-11 Hz, and a
250 watt plate amp is more than adequate to 'Xmax out' up to 30Hz
driving two of them in a loft-mounted manifold.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

new cd player
 

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:16:54 +0000 (UTC), (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

Apropos of which, thanks for recommending the Tempest. I've had a
discourse with the technical chaps at Adire, and between us we came to
the conclusion that one of those in my big brick cupboard, implemented
as infinite baffle (which it approaches pretty closely) will give me,
with room gain, a flat response down to about 12Hz. Of course with a
total lack of any kind of tuned ports, the phase response and hence
perceived speed will be just great. I'm currently building the
mounting panel that will replace the door. Reports will follow...

Apropos of that, download the Tempest white paper to get full T/S
specs, and check out what happens when you use the 'shorted coil'
option. I make it flat to 20Hz *anechoic*, with f10 at 10-11 Hz, and a
250 watt plate amp is more than adequate to 'Xmax out' up to 30Hz
driving two of them in a loft-mounted manifold.

I've got the white paper, but most of the content seems to be aimed at
minimally-sized enclosures - which I suppose is reasonable for most
people. What struck me about this speaker, though, was the huge Vas
figure, which if it is true makes it a very suitable candidate for a
big IB.

I worry some about room gain though. It does rather depend on having
all the doors and windows tightly closed. Having said that, I would
rather have slightly light but well extended bass than all the slap,
boom and thud you hear from so many subs.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

new cd player
 

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 08:16:54 +0000 (UTC), (Stewart
Pinkerton) wrote:

Apropos of which, thanks for recommending the Tempest. I've had a
discourse with the technical chaps at Adire, and between us we came to
the conclusion that one of those in my big brick cupboard, implemented
as infinite baffle (which it approaches pretty closely) will give me,
with room gain, a flat response down to about 12Hz. Of course with a
total lack of any kind of tuned ports, the phase response and hence
perceived speed will be just great. I'm currently building the
mounting panel that will replace the door. Reports will follow...

Apropos of that, download the Tempest white paper to get full T/S
specs, and check out what happens when you use the 'shorted coil'
option. I make it flat to 20Hz *anechoic*, with f10 at 10-11 Hz, and a
250 watt plate amp is more than adequate to 'Xmax out' up to 30Hz
driving two of them in a loft-mounted manifold.

I've got the white paper, but most of the content seems to be aimed at
minimally-sized enclosures - which I suppose is reasonable for most
people. What struck me about this speaker, though, was the huge Vas
figure, which if it is true makes it a very suitable candidate for a
big IB.

I worry some about room gain though. It does rather depend on having
all the doors and windows tightly closed. Having said that, I would
rather have slightly light but well extended bass than all the slap,
boom and thud you hear from so many subs.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

new cd player
 

In article , Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:


Properly done, they most certainly do not put out 'mush', but I'll agree
that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting thing is
that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a better job
with DIY than you can buy at any price!

Depends who is doing the 'DIY'. My mechanical abilities are such that every
prototype amp. etc, I make tends to make a 'swish' noise when you tllt the
box and the components slide about. :-) I suspect any sub I made would
rattle like a box of loose bolts. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

new cd player
 

In article , Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:


Properly done, they most certainly do not put out 'mush', but I'll agree
that 90% of the subs on the market are garbage. The interesting thing is
that this is the one area in audio where you really can do a better job
with DIY than you can buy at any price!

Depends who is doing the 'DIY'. My mechanical abilities are such that every
prototype amp. etc, I make tends to make a 'swish' noise when you tllt the
box and the components slide about. :-) I suspect any sub I made would
rattle like a box of loose bolts. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html