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OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he
See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=8101010 615 Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer! Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and auction title to trap the unwary....??? Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising! :-) |
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On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=8101010 615 Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer! Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and auction title to trap the unwary....??? Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising! :-) Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two lines - no small print at all. Full marks to this seller from me. I'm sure echo910 will be very happy with his nice box. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:49 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...7&item=8101010 615 Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer! Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and auction title to trap the unwary....??? Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising! :-) Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two lines - no small print at all. Yes, apart from the fact that the seller has studiously avoided the word 'empty' anywhere in the description..... Full marks to this seller from me. Not from me. I think he's a clever little cookie who achieved exactly what he set out to do - caught an eager-beaver dummy with a Famous Name (which ain't hard to do, check the bids - there's plenty of them out there!) and the rest of us with a description wording where clarity makes the omission and obfuscation difficult to spot..... I'm sure echo910 will be very happy with his nice box. Ooh, I don't think so - read the feedback he left! (Certainly not as happy as the seller seems to be! :-) An interesting example of the essence of eBay - the greedy 'grab a bargain/make a killing' dichotomy which keeps the whole thing going, Although,in this instance, I think the long-term effects might well be the opposite of the immediately obvious - the publicity the seller's getting (4,000+ more hits overnight??) is hardly likely to do his future eBay activities any good with the dopey 'computer gamer fraternity' and poor old echo910 (who has an excellent track record as a buyer so far, I might add) has learned a valuable 'lesson for life' at a fairly reasonable price! (I have to say my own interest in 'computer games' ended with a weekend lost to 'Pogo Joe' on the kid's Commodore 64 a long time ago! :-) |
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On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:00:27 +0100, Paul Dormer
wrote: "Don Pearce" emitted : OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=8101010 615 Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer! Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and auction title to trap the unwary....??? I would say it takes a certain naivety on the part of the reader, but each line can be interpreted either way.. eg the Xbox is itself a box, so "Xbox box" can refer to the console itself. Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising! :-) Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two lines - no small print at all. Full marks to this seller from me. A rip-off is a rip-off, no matter how dumb the victim is. The seller has acted irresponsibly. That you praise him for his actions and demean the victim says quite a bit about you. I'm sure your business clients would be instilled with confidence to hear this.. I don't believe there was any attempt to rip anybody off here. The seller described exactly what he was selling and set an appropriate starting price. It was the subsequent buyers who hyped the thing up and conned themselves. You can hardly hold the seller responsible for that - although I'm sure he watched in some amusement/amazement as the price went into orbit. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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On Thu, 20 May 2004 12:44:04 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:49 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...7&item=8101010 615 Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer! Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and auction title to trap the unwary....??? Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising! :-) Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two lines - no small print at all. Yes, apart from the fact that the seller has studiously avoided the word 'empty' anywhere in the description..... Even when he gave its purpose as to pose around the town pretending you have the real thing at home? I think that came across as rather more than just a hint. Full marks to this seller from me. Not from me. I think he's a clever little cookie who achieved exactly what he set out to do - caught an eager-beaver dummy with a Famous Name (which ain't hard to do, check the bids - there's plenty of them out there!) and the rest of us with a description wording where clarity makes the omission and obfuscation difficult to spot..... No, I don't believe he intended any such thing. I think he was described exactly what he was selling, and was expecting either no bids, or something barely above his starting bid. I'm sure echo910 will be very happy with his nice box. Ooh, I don't think so - read the feedback he left! (Certainly not as happy as the seller seems to be! :-) An interesting example of the essence of eBay - the greedy 'grab a bargain/make a killing' dichotomy which keeps the whole thing going, Although,in this instance, I think the long-term effects might well be the opposite of the immediately obvious - the publicity the seller's getting (4,000+ more hits overnight??) is hardly likely to do his future eBay activities any good with the dopey 'computer gamer fraternity' and poor old echo910 (who has an excellent track record as a buyer so far, I might add) has learned a valuable 'lesson for life' at a fairly reasonable price! It has been said that you can't con an honest man. (I have to say my own interest in 'computer games' ended with a weekend lost to 'Pogo Joe' on the kid's Commodore 64 a long time ago! :-) My interest ended with Robot Nim, on the Video Genie. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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"Don Pearce" wrote snip Full marks to this seller from me. Not from me. I think he's a clever little cookie who achieved exactly what he set out to do - caught an eager-beaver dummy with a Famous Name (which ain't hard to do, check the bids - there's plenty of them out there!) and the rest of us with a description wording where clarity makes the omission and obfuscation difficult to spot..... No, I don't believe he intended any such thing. I think he was described exactly what he was selling, I disagree. He was selling an *empty box* - nowhere does he use that phrase. and was expecting either no bids, or something barely above his starting bid. Where do you get that from? You are 'reading in to it' like echowotsit seems to have done and exactly what I think the seller was hoping might happen (to a degree)..... snip 2 It has been said that you can't con an honest man. I would argue the opposite is more likely to be true and would offer 'you can't kid a kidder'.......?? (I have to say my own interest in 'computer games' ended with a weekend lost to 'Pogo Joe' on the kid's Commodore 64 a long time ago! :-) My interest ended with Robot Nim, on the Video Genie. Int sinnit. |
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On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:45:46 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote snip Full marks to this seller from me. Not from me. I think he's a clever little cookie who achieved exactly what he set out to do - caught an eager-beaver dummy with a Famous Name (which ain't hard to do, check the bids - there's plenty of them out there!) and the rest of us with a description wording where clarity makes the omission and obfuscation difficult to spot..... No, I don't believe he intended any such thing. I think he was described exactly what he was selling, I disagree. He was selling an *empty box* - nowhere does he use that phrase. The why did he say you could use it to pretend you really had an Xbox? That would be a strange thing to say if he was trying to make you think you were actually getting the unit too. and was expecting either no bids, or something barely above his starting bid. Where do you get that from? You are 'reading in to it' like echowotsit seems to have done and exactly what I think the seller was hoping might happen (to a degree)..... No, I just read it the way it was written - no "reading-in" at all. snip 2 It has been said that you can't con an honest man. I would argue the opposite is more likely to be true and would offer 'you can't kid a kidder'.......?? I think the general point was that in order to get the mark to accept the con, he must feel he is getting something for less than its true worth. (I have to say my own interest in 'computer games' ended with a weekend lost to 'Pogo Joe' on the kid's Commodore 64 a long time ago! :-) My interest ended with Robot Nim, on the Video Genie. Int sinnit. Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:00:27 +0100, Paul Dormer wrote: "Don Pearce" emitted : OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...387&item=81010 10615 Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer! Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and auction title to trap the unwary....??? I would say it takes a certain naivety on the part of the reader, but each line can be interpreted either way.. eg the Xbox is itself a box, so "Xbox box" can refer to the console itself. Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising! :-) Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two lines - no small print at all. Full marks to this seller from me. A rip-off is a rip-off, no matter how dumb the victim is. The seller has acted irresponsibly. That you praise him for his actions and demean the victim says quite a bit about you. I'm sure your business clients would be instilled with confidence to hear this.. I don't believe there was any attempt to rip anybody off here. The seller described exactly what he was selling and set an appropriate starting price. It was the subsequent buyers who hyped the thing up and conned themselves. You can hardly hold the seller responsible for that - although I'm sure he watched in some amusement/amazement as the price went into orbit. The feedback comments indicate to me that he isn't at all uncomfortable with the result - makes him a little **** in my book and means (in the *impossible* event that I should be bidding for 'game' stuff) I wouldn't bid on his future auctions. At the rate the hit counter's going (over 60,500 now and rising fast) this little episode will have been seen by half the world's 'gaming' population by teatime - matey's nice little 'result' could end up costing him dear in the long run, if he's got more stuff to sell in the future... .....and I hope so too - my original post was to help 'spread the word' and increase this likelihood. Ebay is the best thing since sliced bread for vinyl buyers (oops, wrong group! :-) - you should see the superb, mint(ish) original pressing Brubeck 'Jazz Goes To College' (Columbia CL 566) I got this morning for a very fair price (£7.49) from a decent seller who charged £2.20 for p&p, packaged it in nuke-proof cardboard (double-backed) and then plastered £2.03's worth of stamps on it to get it to me in 2 days from end of auction..... That's what you call a result - I don't want eBay f*cked up by idiots! (Buyers *or* sellers....!!!) |
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On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:17:29 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote: The feedback comments indicate to me that he isn't at all uncomfortable with the result - makes him a little **** in my book and means (in the *impossible* event that I should be bidding for 'game' stuff) I wouldn't bid on his future auctions. At the rate the hit counter's going (over 60,500 now and rising fast) this little episode will have been seen by half the world's 'gaming' population by teatime - matey's nice little 'result' could end up costing him dear in the long run, if he's got more stuff to sell in the future... ....and I hope so too - my original post was to help 'spread the word' and increase this likelihood. Ebay is the best thing since sliced bread for vinyl buyers (oops, wrong group! :-) - you should see the superb, mint(ish) original pressing Brubeck 'Jazz Goes To College' (Columbia CL 566) I got this morning for a very fair price (£7.49) from a decent seller who charged £2.20 for p&p, packaged it in nuke-proof cardboard (double-backed) and then plastered £2.03's worth of stamps on it to get it to me in 2 days from end of auction..... That's what you call a result - I don't want eBay f*cked up by idiots! (Buyers *or* sellers....!!!) We'll have to agree to disagree. As far as I'm concerned, he didn't charge a high price - an idiot buyer pressed the money into his hot and sweaty. As in all things - caveat emptor. But no doubt you are right that this will haunt him. If it really wasn't intended as a scam, he should have taken the longer view and made sure the buyer understood what he was buying before he took his money. I know I would have. But I'm a Darwinian at heart. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
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"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:17:29 +0100, "Keith G" wrote: The feedback comments indicate to me that he isn't at all uncomfortable with the result - makes him a little **** in my book and means (in the *impossible* event that I should be bidding for 'game' stuff) I wouldn't bid on his future auctions. At the rate the hit counter's going (over 60,500 now and rising fast) this little episode will have been seen by half the world's 'gaming' population by teatime - matey's nice little 'result' could end up costing him dear in the long run, if he's got more stuff to sell in the future... ....and I hope so too - my original post was to help 'spread the word' and increase this likelihood. Ebay is the best thing since sliced bread for vinyl buyers (oops, wrong group! :-) - you should see the superb, mint(ish) original pressing Brubeck 'Jazz Goes To College' (Columbia CL 566) I got this morning for a very fair price (£7.49) from a decent seller who charged £2.20 for p&p, packaged it in nuke-proof cardboard (double-backed) and then plastered £2.03's worth of stamps on it to get it to me in 2 days from end of auction..... That's what you call a result - I don't want eBay f*cked up by idiots! (Buyers *or* sellers....!!!) We'll have to agree to disagree. Yes and no - see below. As far as I'm concerned, he didn't charge a high price - an idiot buyer pressed the money into his hot and sweaty. And he took it, with little or no remorse - see his poky little feedback comment. As in all things - caveat emptor. Oh yes indeed. It's cost echothingy 120 sovs to learn that one - could save him thousands later on in life in which case it will turn out to have been a bargain. but he's going to feel ****e about it for a good while yet, I suspect. And before I get the 'serves the greedy bleeder right' slung at me (on or off-list) the whole point of bidding on eBay is to hope to get a bargain, is it not? Echowotsit's feedback implies to me that he's a fairly decent (if not excellent) eBayer and there's half a dozen other bidders who were happily following him down the same route! But no doubt you are right that this will haunt him. If it really wasn't intended as a scam, he should have taken the longer view and made sure the buyer understood what he was buying before he took his money. Agreed - the phrase *empty box* would have made this all right and proper. I know I would have. Me too, but then we've been round the block a few more times than most of the 'gaming fraternity', I suspect.... But I'm a Darwinian at heart. Me too - still naively believing it's up to each individual to do his best to prevent our (seemingly inevitable) return to the sludge-pit we started out from! ;-) |
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Keith G wrote:
I disagree. He was selling an *empty box* - nowhere does he use that phrase. I very much doubt the box was empty. Unless you can show that the seller had set up a vacuum...? -- Now Playing: No Doubt - Sunday Morning [215kbps mp3] |
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On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:49 +0100, Keith G wrote:
OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=8101010 615 Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer! Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and auction title to trap the unwary....??? Personally, if I had been interested in this auction because I wanted an X-Box, I would have clarified with the seller whether the box was empty or not before I made a bid - I would have least requested more information like whether controllers or other items were included. It would have been sensible on my part and would have removed any possible misunderstanding. Certainly, the auction description reads accurately as it stands. I would have assumed the box to be empty from the description. Whether others would have read it the same way is something else! Whether any prospective buyer for this item should be refered to as a "dickhead" is arguable. There are people around for whom appearances are very important. They would see even an empty box (particularly one which is for a limited edition item) as having a real value. It appears that the actual buyer wasn't one of these and hasn't made any checks. He has bought based on the description given - which is actually very good, but isn't for what he wanted. IMHO the seller should offer a null sale. I say this purely because I think that there has been a "sin of omission". Although the description is good and accurate it doesn't really go far enough. I would definitely have preferred to see the box described with the word "empty" or with a foot note similar to "Note that this item does NOT include an X-Box or accessories". After all, if the X-Box had been included the seller would probably have made a point of informing prospective bidders that the unit was in working condition or included a controller. -- Cheers... Mick Gave up on viruses & trojans - moved to Linux... :-) Nascom & Gemini info at http://www.nascom.info |
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"Graeme Cogger" wrote in message ... In article 40abda8d$0$20512$cc9e4d1f@news- text.dial.pipex.com, says... OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=8101010 615 Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer! Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and auction title to trap the unwary....??? Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising! :-) It's all a bit strange... No it's not. The seller has achieved exactly what he set out to do IMO. Check the bidding - there are a number of bidders all with low feedback ratings (or whatever it's called - transaction numbers or summat) throwing serious money at an empty box. If the seller was genuine he could have stepped in at any time and pointed out that the Xbox wasn't actually in the Xbox box and that it was only the Xbox box that the Xbox came in...... Check the description also - 'Platform = Microsoft Xbox', 'Condition = 'new in box' Wot woz 'new in box' - the box itself then? Check also Postage and Packing = £5. Woz the seller going to put the Xbox box (ie a box with no Xbox in it) into a box and post that then? (An Xboxless Xbox box inside a box....???) :-) Personally, I can't see how anyone could misunderstand what the guy was selling - it was very clearly described. Still think so? On the other hand, I wouldn't have taken the money in this case. Once it was clear that the buyer _had_ (somehow!) misunderstood, the decent thing to do would be to offer to abort the sale. Quite. If a significant refund (I don't say all of it) hasn't already been offered to the dopey buyer, it bloody well ought to be, in my book! Now, I wonder if I say all this because I inadvertantly bought a 7" record the other day - thought it was an LP! (The description clearly said '7"'!!) :-) |
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"Form@C" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:49 +0100, Keith G wrote: OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he See: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=8101010 615 Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer! Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and auction title to trap the unwary....??? Personally, if I had been interested in this auction because I wanted an X-Box, I would have clarified with the seller whether the box was empty or not before I made a bid - I would have least requested more information like whether controllers or other items were included. It would have been sensible on my part and would have removed any possible misunderstanding. Certainly, the auction description reads accurately as it stands. I would have assumed the box to be empty from the description. Whether others would have read it the same way is something else! Maybe a lot of us don't have as finely-honed eBaying skills as you? Whether any prospective buyer for this item should be refered to as a "dickhead" is arguable. A somewhat 'unkind' turn of phrase I agree, but what other descriptive best fits someone who has paid £120 for an empty box and clearly isn't happy to have done so? There are people around for whom appearances are very important. They would see even an empty box (particularly one which is for a limited edition item) as having a real value. It appears that the actual buyer wasn't one of these and hasn't made any checks. He has bought based on the description given - which is actually very good, but isn't for what he wanted. OK, how about 'plonker' then - is that fair do you think? :-) IMHO the seller should offer a null sale. Yes, so do I - or a partial refund, at least. I say this purely because I think that there has been a "sin of omission". Yes and obfuscation..... (Remember the successful bidder wasn't the only one lobbing serious money at this empty box!) Although the description is good and accurate it doesn't really go far enough. I would definitely have preferred to see the box described with the word "empty" or with a foot note similar to "Note that this item does NOT include an X-Box or accessories". Exactamento. After all, if the X-Box had been included the seller would probably have made a point of informing prospective bidders that the unit was in working condition or included a controller. Etc. etc. Quite....... |
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In article 40ae21c9$0$20512$cc9e4d1f@news-
text.dial.pipex.com, says... Personally, I can't see how anyone could misunderstand what the guy was selling - it was very clearly described. Still think so? Absolutely, yes. The description itself is as plain as day. He even suggests that you use it to fool your friends into thinking you own an X-box. |
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On Fri, 21 May 2004 16:56:52 +0100, Keith G wrote:
snip Maybe a lot of us don't have as finely-honed eBaying skills as you? grin You obviously don't know me, Keith! I have *no* eBaying skills whatever - never having used it at all! :-) Whether any prospective buyer for this item should be refered to as a "dickhead" is arguable. A somewhat 'unkind' turn of phrase I agree, but what other descriptive best fits someone who has paid £120 for an empty box and clearly isn't happy to have done so? a wishfull thinker? The gent in question will definitely learn from this mistake one way or another... snip IMHO the seller should offer a null sale. Yes, so do I - or a partial refund, at least. I say this purely because I think that there has been a "sin of omission". Yes and obfuscation..... (Remember the successful bidder wasn't the only one lobbing serious money at this empty box!) snip I can't see anywhere where the seller deliberately sets out to mislead prospective buyers - that's the problem. If he did, then it would be easy to condemn him as a fraud and a cheat - as it is, he may well attract those tags any way. If he is politically astute then offering a largeish refund could be a very good thing - leaving him with a profit, teaching the buyer to be more careful in future and earning "respect" points from fellow eBayers. :-) It is possible that some of the losing bidders actually wanted an empty box of course and are now disappointed... lol! -- Cheers... Mick Gave up on viruses & trojans - moved to Linux... :-) Nascom & Gemini info at http://www.nascom.info |
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The gent in question will definitely learn from this mistake one way or
another... No doubt. The most enduring lessons are those that hurt most, whether financially or emotionally. This lesson is: Read carefully and consider the price. |
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