"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 06:07:56 +0000 (UTC)
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

In which case, why the 'war' about SS and valve? if neither distort
audibly, then they sound the same.

There *is* no war about *good* valve amps.

Im aware of that. I was asking a rhetorical question.



Interesting that the qualification 'bad' has to be used to get the attacks
off the ground isn't it? Who TF knowingly uses *bad* valve amps???

Which of my valve bits are 'bad'...

EAR 834P
EAR834L
Dynaco Mk III
WAD KiT88
Homebrew 2A3

.....and how 'bad' are they if *I* like using them???

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:36:17 +0200
Sander deWaal wrote:

And others use DSPs or tube amps to find listening pleasure.
Then why oh why is it always necessary to ridicule those who use
tubes?

Funny how tubies always seem to be on the defensive...



Valvies (like me) only go on the defensive when the SS battalions attack -
it's a British tradition..... ;-)

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:34:15 +0100
"Keith G" wrote:


Can be? So what's the relevance of that to any amp which doesn't
distort that much? Rest easy, matey - I (and probably no-one else)
listens to any amp that distorts *audibly* enough to be noticed, or to
be a 'problem' in any way....

In which case, why the 'war' about SS and valve? if neither distort
audibly, then they sound the same.


No war in this household matey - I've got 3 of each (ss and valve). I use
them (mostly) as follows - ss for radio (sonic wallpaper), computer and
movies; valves for radio/MP3/WAV/CD/LP/computer (serious listening).....

The only place I'm aware of such a 'war' is in this ng, where a minority (of
one and a half) are trying to restrict traffic in this group to discussion
of CD/SS only. If they are successful and all 'good' SS amps sound the same
(as we are continually being told) - wot's left to discuss? Room
treatments? - Where, no doubt, you would be told exactly how to proceed by
the same minority who have never seen (let alone measured) your room...???

Let me give to something specific to gnaw on - change from valve to ss (as I
think I will, after lunch) and the first thing to go is the 'soundstage'.
That's what I notice most and it's much worse with CDs than it is with
LPs....

OK?

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:34:15 +0100
"Keith G" wrote:


Can be? So what's the relevance of that to any amp which doesn't
distort that much? Rest easy, matey - I (and probably no-one else)
listens to any amp that distorts *audibly* enough to be noticed, or to
be a 'problem' in any way....

In which case, why the 'war' about SS and valve? if neither distort
audibly, then they sound the same.


No war in this household matey - I've got 3 of each (ss and valve). I use
them (mostly) as follows - ss for radio (sonic wallpaper), computer and
movies; valves for radio/MP3/WAV/CD/LP/computer (serious listening).....

The only place I'm aware of such a 'war' is in this ng, where a minority (of
one and a half) are trying to restrict traffic in this group to discussion
of CD/SS only. If they are successful and all 'good' SS amps sound the same
(as we are continually being told) - wot's left to discuss? Room
treatments? - Where, no doubt, you would be told exactly how to proceed by
the same minority who have never seen (let alone measured) your room...???

Let me give to something specific to gnaw on - change from valve to ss (as I
think I will, after lunch) and the first thing to go is the 'soundstage'.
That's what I notice most and it's much worse with CDs than it is with
LPs....

OK?

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:29:56 +0100
"Keith G" wrote:

Do you think people replace equipment on an annual basis back then?
Are you not aware that a 7 yead old in '54 could well be listening to
the same kit as a 17 year old in '64.....??


Oops, that was poorly worded - I should have said the *same* person could
*still* be listening to the same kit when he was a 17 year old, ie a
listening period of 10 years...



You are aware you're speaking to someone with a pair of Radford Monitor
1s which are probably older than myself ?


OK, so what's your point? (Other than you'll shortly be accused of living in
a timewarp if they are pre-80's as I suspect they are....)

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:37:21 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:34:15 +0100
"Keith G" wrote:


Can be? So what's the relevance of that to any amp which doesn't
distort that much? Rest easy, matey - I (and probably no-one else)
listens to any amp that distorts *audibly* enough to be noticed, or to
be a 'problem' in any way....

In which case, why the 'war' about SS and valve? if neither distort
audibly, then they sound the same.


No war in this household matey - I've got 3 of each (ss and valve). I use
them (mostly) as follows - ss for radio (sonic wallpaper), computer and
movies; valves for radio/MP3/WAV/CD/LP/computer (serious listening).....

The only place I'm aware of such a 'war' is in this ng, where a minority (of
one and a half) are trying to restrict traffic in this group to discussion
of CD/SS only. If they are successful and all 'good' SS amps sound the same
(as we are continually being told) - wot's left to discuss? Room
treatments? - Where, no doubt, you would be told exactly how to proceed by
the same minority who have never seen (let alone measured) your room...???

Let me give to something specific to gnaw on - change from valve to ss (as I
think I will, after lunch) and the first thing to go is the 'soundstage'.
That's what I notice most and it's much worse with CDs than it is with
LPs....

OK?





"What I tell you three times is true"

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Kurt Hamster" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:13:33 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton used
to say...

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:57:29 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Unless, of course, you're going to thrill us with all those
developments
that have been going on unseen in valves and vinyl technology that
somehow
makes it better than when it was the norm?

Nope. If it suits you to believe audio performance and reproduction has
gone
anywhere other than downhill in the last 50 years, that's perfectly fine
by
me...

Thanks for proving beyond all doubt that you're a complete asshole.
BTW, there were no stereo LPs in 1954.

******** as usual, don't let the truth get in the way of you making a
point...

"One of the earliest stereo recordings was done in 1932 in Philadelphia
for Bell Labs. The recording by Stokowski of Scriabin's "Poem of Fire."
It was done on a vinyl disc using two grooves, one for each channel. Two
years later stereo recordings were being done at Abbey Road studios
using a vertical-lateral technique. Decca records released the first
stereo records in 1945 using the vertical-lateral system. They could not
be played well by the current playback systems. "The Robe", in 1953 was
the first movie to be released in Cinemascope with a stereo (actually 4
channel) soundtrack. There were more than 30 other stereo films released
that year. "

http://www.rogernichols.com/EQ/EQ_2001_07.html



An excellent reference Kurt, and one I'm sure that will be totally
disregarded by a few here who like to pump factual inaccuracies and personl
opinions (OSAFs) into this group with an air of 'authority'.....

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:47:11 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Kurt Hamster" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:13:33 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton used
to say...

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 17:57:29 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

Unless, of course, you're going to thrill us with all those
developments
that have been going on unseen in valves and vinyl technology that
somehow
makes it better than when it was the norm?

Nope. If it suits you to believe audio performance and reproduction has
gone
anywhere other than downhill in the last 50 years, that's perfectly fine
by
me...

Thanks for proving beyond all doubt that you're a complete asshole.
BTW, there were no stereo LPs in 1954.

******** as usual, don't let the truth get in the way of you making a
point...

"One of the earliest stereo recordings was done in 1932 in Philadelphia
for Bell Labs. The recording by Stokowski of Scriabin's "Poem of Fire."
It was done on a vinyl disc using two grooves, one for each channel. Two
years later stereo recordings were being done at Abbey Road studios
using a vertical-lateral technique. Decca records released the first
stereo records in 1945 using the vertical-lateral system. They could not
be played well by the current playback systems. "The Robe", in 1953 was
the first movie to be released in Cinemascope with a stereo (actually 4
channel) soundtrack. There were more than 30 other stereo films released
that year. "

http://www.rogernichols.com/EQ/EQ_2001_07.html



An excellent reference Kurt, and one I'm sure that will be totally
disregarded by a few here who like to pump factual inaccuracies and personl
opinions (OSAFs) into this group with an air of 'authority'.....



As you say, a good reference - but a bit brief. He could do with
expanding all those sections quite a bit.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Would that be the master tape you'd never get to see, much less hear
(and be able to compare too)?

Well, I do have a Nagra and a CD burner.......................

Out of interest, what audio card are you using to do the AD conversion?

François Yves Le Gal wrote:
All pro studios I'm familiar with have a very wide assortment of valve
mics, vintage or recent, which are put to very good use for a very large
number of recordings.

Define what they are particularly suited for?

Anything and everything. Vocals, guitars (both electric and acoustic),
strings, you name it.

It's probably fair to say that the majority of successful vocal recordings
are made through an expensive valve mic. (And, frequently, from there into
a -- digital -- SSL desk and edited -- digitally -- in ProTools.)

But in common use?

Yup, every day, in all the big studios.

Valve power amps are common too, and valve processors and mic channels even
more so. All-valve desks are popular too. There's even groove machines (drum
machine + synth + sampler) with valves these days.

Just a point of fact...