I am considering buying a small portable sound recorder, and would be
interested in suggestions/recommendations people may be able to make that
would suit the following requirements, etc.

The recorder will be used to record spoken word discussions, not music.
Hence it need not be of outstanding 'hi fi' quality, but I'd obviously like
good clear speech recordings to be possible. The main idea is a recorder
easy and convenient to use for making a record of conversations with a
minimum of fuss.

I'd like a digital recorder (MiniDisc or an equivalent) able to record up
to 1 or 2 hours at a time.

The unit will be used by my wife as well as by myself. She has epilepsy,
and hence it will need to be rugged (to protect it against the effects of
being dropped or mistreated if she has a fit whilst using the recorder),
portable, and reasonably cheap (so if she loses it, it will be no big
deal).

It will also need to be compact and simple to use. Inbuilt mics but with
sensitivity/noise levels good enough for conversation recordings without
having to hold the mics to the mouth like a dictaphone. One-button
recording action, with the ability to automatically adjust the gain, or
fairly clear and simple metering and obvious gain control. Light, small,
etc. Pref uses standard batteries of a size/type I can easily recharge even
if this is done out of the actual recorder.

Ideally have an S/PDIF output so I can then transfer recordings onto CDR
using an audio CDRW recorder.

My only experience up to now is with dedicated 'hi fi' recorders of various
sorts which are part of mains-powered systems, and where the quality of
recording is the prime consideration. Not had any experience of serious
speech recordings using a portable, so I currently don't know what might
suit this application best.

Ideas? :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:
I am considering buying a small portable sound recorder, and would be
interested in suggestions/recommendations people may be able to make
that would suit the following requirements, etc.

The recorder will be used to record spoken word discussions, not
music. Hence it need not be of outstanding 'hi fi' quality, but I'd
obviously like good clear speech recordings to be possible. The main
idea is a recorder easy and convenient to use for making a record of
conversations with a minimum of fuss.


You have lots of options from dedicated digital recorder to MiniDisc and
various MP3 players. For overkill something like an Archos would suffice
but may not be rugged enough. Why not look at other MP3 recorders perhaps
something that plugs directly to a USB port they would be as rugged as you
could expect. Ebuyer have some and Richer Sounds have a couple at the
moment but I wouldn't expect Richer to be competitive on PC-ish products. I
have no experience of Minidisc.

Ask in a UK MP3 group for specific advice. HTH.

Jim,

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes
I am considering buying a small portable sound recorder, and would be
interested in suggestions/recommendations people may be able to make that
would suit the following requirements, etc.

I've had decent results with a Sony minidisc recorder and a cheap
'plug-in powered' condenser microphone built into the body of a 3.5mm
jack plug. It could be improved, as the Sony has no way to control
record level while it's actually recording. I believe the Sharp units do
have this control. Mine is over a year old now, so I'm afraid I don't
have any recommendations for models that are current.

The downside is that it is not really robust (especially while writing
the table of contents data after completing a recording - a knock at
this stage will lose your entire recording).

It can be operated with one hand, but the switches are small. In the LP
modes it will record up to around 3(?) hours of mono at passable
quality, over an hour a full quality.

The microphone is a Panasonic-type miniature omni electret element
soldered into a jack plug body - cost was about 10 dollars from either
The Sound Professionals or Core Sound, I forget which. You can find
links to both on the www.minidisc.org accessories page. It's useful for
picking up speech from a couple of feet away, but you will get quite a
bit of room noise. It plugs directly into the mic input on the minidisc,
or you can use a simple extension lead to move it away, which helps
minimise pickup from the mechanical noise of the unit itself.

For a bit more robustness, you could use a 'field recording' type
housing, also detailed at minidisc.org - basically a robust, padded case
with extension leads built in, intended for journalists or concert
tapers.

Hope this helps,
--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

Hi,

In message , Keith G
writes

You're obviously a bit of an expert in this field.

Funniest thing I've heard in weeks! ;-)


I'm looking for a mic to record piano playing straight to my computer hard
disk via Sound Forge. I'm thinking of a single mic (mono recording) on a
stand and playing about with angles and distances 'til I get a bit of a
result.

If you can find one, a Crown PZM mic might fit the bill. Tandy sold them
once upon a time and they crop up on ebay often. You can basically tape
it to the inside of the piano lid. It looks like a small square plate
with a lead hanging out of it, and they have a directional pattern that
means you don't get 500 decibels of middle C with no top or bottom end.
If you can be bothered, rip out the 1.5volt battery and replace it with
12volts worth of battery power and it would give surprisingly good
results.

Failing that (it's a long shot finding one) you have some other options,
and results will probably be effort related (as always).

If you're brave, have a look at this
http://www.paia.com/msmic.htm

It will give you two nominally line level outputs, so it's stereo, and
uses three cheapo electret elements with some clever electronics to
matrix three signals into stereo. Good value, I'm told, but bloody ugly.
I *know* you're brave enough to build it - I've seen your amp!

If you can get near the soundboard from underneath, you could cobble up
something far more tasteful using a couple of omnidirectional miniature
capsules poked into a couple of holes - nobody would know they were
there, but you would end up with all the low notes in one channel, and
the high notes in the other... maybe a bit brutal in terms of stereo
imaging, but cheap. The capsules are a couple of quid each, so it
wouldn't hurt to try it. They are less than 1/2 inch across, so you can
hide them in the piano easily. I'll dig out some links to places that
sell the elements for you.

If you want to go 'traditional' you could try an omnidirectional or wide
cardiod condenser mic that can use a battery (a lot of them need phantom
power). I don't know any off the top of my head, but I can find some
references for you. DON'T go buying an AKG C1000, even if it looks
cheap.

The biggest problem is probably going to be the mic input on the sound
card. They usually aren't up to much. The Mid-side kit I mentioned gets
around this as it outputs much higher levels (also handy if you're using
a long cable run).

I'll add to this when I can find some more info.

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

"Glenn Booth" wrote in message
...
Hi,

In message , Keith G
writes

You're obviously a bit of an expert in this field.

Funniest thing I've heard in weeks! ;-)


I'm looking for a mic to record piano playing straight to my computer
hard
disk via Sound Forge. I'm thinking of a single mic (mono recording) on a
stand and playing about with angles and distances 'til I get a bit of a
result.

huge snip


I'll add to this when I can find some more info.



Glenn, don't break your neck on this - I was kinda hoping you say summat
like : 'Get a ****** from ******* and you'll probably need a ****** cable'

(I only want a simple, inexpensive, off-the-shelf solution as it is only an
idea atm. If it worked out OK and was worth doing, I could polish it up at a
later date)

Thanks for you efforts anyway - Keith

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:36:57 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

I'm looking for a mic to record piano playing straight to my computer hard
disk via Sound Forge. I'm thinking of a single mic (mono recording) on a
stand and playing about with angles and distances 'til I get a bit of a
result.


I recollect reading a number of years ago that it is extremely
difficult to record a piano properly. From memory the gist of the
argument was as follows:

The majority of notes have three strings. The tuning of these is
slightly different and the share a common sound board, resulting in
very complex interactions varying over time. Because of the large size
of the sound board, a close microphone will not pick up these effects
properly. A microphone further away will pick up too much of the room
containing the instrument which will be added to the acoustics of the
listening room with undesirable results.

You might be better starting with something simpler, like a flute! :-)

(I'm speaking as a former flute player.)



--
Chris Isbell
Southampton
UK

"Chris Isbell" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:36:57 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

I'm looking for a mic to record piano playing straight to my computer
hard
disk via Sound Forge. I'm thinking of a single mic (mono recording) on a
stand and playing about with angles and distances 'til I get a bit of a
result.


I recollect reading a number of years ago that it is extremely
difficult to record a piano properly. From memory the gist of the
argument was as follows:

The majority of notes have three strings. The tuning of these is
slightly different and the share a common sound board, resulting in
very complex interactions varying over time. Because of the large size
of the sound board, a close microphone will not pick up these effects
properly. A microphone further away will pick up too much of the room
containing the instrument which will be added to the acoustics of the
listening room with undesirable results.



Hmmm, peachy........


You might be better starting with something simpler, like a flute! :-)

:-)

I'm sure you're right but the piano already exists!

Thanks anyway!

In article , Keith G
writes
"Chris Isbell" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 21:36:57 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

I'm looking for a mic to record piano playing straight to my computer
hard
disk via Sound Forge. I'm thinking of a single mic (mono recording) on a
stand and playing about with angles and distances 'til I get a bit of a
result.


I recollect reading a number of years ago that it is extremely
difficult to record a piano properly. From memory the gist of the
argument was as follows:

The majority of notes have three strings. The tuning of these is
slightly different and the share a common sound board, resulting in
very complex interactions varying over time. Because of the large size
of the sound board, a close microphone will not pick up these effects
properly. A microphone further away will pick up too much of the room
containing the instrument which will be added to the acoustics of the
listening room with undesirable results.



Hmmm, peachy........


You might be better starting with something simpler, like a flute! :-)

:-)

I'm sure you're right but the piano already exists!

Thanks anyway!






Try shoving the mike under the piano. Dunno if this works but some well
respected recording eng in the 60's reckoned it was good.

Cant remember who it was now.....
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Glenn Booth
writes
Hi,

In message , tony sayer
writes

Try shoving the mike under the piano. Dunno if this works but some well
respected recording eng in the 60's reckoned it was good.

Putting a microphone underneath, aimed (if it's directional) towards the
soundboard can work well, but like most recording techniques it needs
experimentation as it will vary a lot between instruments.

I would personally wander around with a finger in one ear until it
sounds nice, then play around with positioning the microphone near that
position, while listening on headphones. That's kind of hard from the
underneath though :-)

Actually I think he meant right underneath, on the floor not just under
the soundboard!...
--
Tony Sayer

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Glenn Booth
writes
Hi,

In message , tony sayer
writes

Try shoving the mike under the piano. Dunno if this works but some well
respected recording eng in the 60's reckoned it was good.

Putting a microphone underneath, aimed (if it's directional) towards the
soundboard can work well, but like most recording techniques it needs
experimentation as it will vary a lot between instruments.

I would personally wander around with a finger in one ear until it
sounds nice, then play around with positioning the microphone near that
position, while listening on headphones. That's kind of hard from the
underneath though :-)

Actually I think he meant right underneath, on the floor not just under
the soundboard!...



Yep, that's 'doable' - thanks for your suggestions (and to Glenn for the
offer of a loaned mic) I will bear them all in mind. There's rush for a week
or 2 - until Swim gets the hang of the 'new gearbox'! ;-)