"Bob Latham" wrote in message
...
I had an interesting experience this morning. I have been helping a hi-fi
newbie at work choose his first AV system. When it came to amplifiers I
had advised him to try the Arcam AVR300 which suited his requirements and
would nicely fit on his tv/hi-fi rack. Plus I knew of Arcam's excellent
after sales service and I have an AV8/P7 which I am very happy with.

All was well until someone suggested that it might be interesting to try
the Denon amp at a similar price as it was getting good reviews. It was
wired in to exactly the same cables and speakers and the speaker levels
(balance) were set the same.

My newbie mate was first to indicate his feelings. The Denon was, to my
ears considerably more alive and dynamic than the Arcam both on CD and DVD
music videos. The Arcam was warm and cuddly but very laid back. He decided
on the Denon and it was easy to have a preference.

This friend of mine had never been in a hi-fi dem in his life before and
because we were using a projector for the music DVDs the room was in
almost total darkness there was no subtle facial expressions guiding him
at all. Don't anyone ever tell me all good amps sound the same, they
simply don't, unless of course these amps are both not good. I will
concede that it could have been the DACs that were so different as we did
not use an analogue source but even so...

Incidentally, I wouldn't think the shop wanted that result as the Denon
was 300UKP cheaper.

**Contrary to popular opinion, there may well be differences between some
amplifiers. I commend you to find a copy of Electronics World, August 2004
issue, where the differences between regular Global NFB amplifiers and zero
Global NFB amplifiers is discussed. The article goes some way towards
uncovering what many listeners profess to hear.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:

**Contrary to popular opinion, there may well be differences between
some amplifiers.

Can't comment on "popular opinion" beyond noticing that abc1 has just
started on Freeview. :-)

However I am personally quite happy to accept that some amplifiers can make
audible differences in some circumstances.

I commend you to find a copy of Electronics World, August 2004 issue,
where the differences between regular Global NFB amplifiers and zero
Global NFB amplifiers is discussed. The article goes some way towards
uncovering what many listeners profess to hear.

If you are referring to the series of articles by Graham Maynard then I'd
recommend treating them with *great* caution.

I have been collecting them and trying to make sense of his claims and
"explanations". A lot of what he writes seems to me to be muddled,
ambiguous, and misleading. There are some useful points, but they are
buried in a lot of muddled arguments and misleading "explanations", I
think. Also quite a lot of what I might call "make mountains out of
molehills by describing well know effects out of context in a confused
manner". However I have been waiting until the full series is finished
before anaysing them in critical detail.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:

**Contrary to popular opinion, there may well be differences between
some amplifiers.

Can't comment on "popular opinion" beyond noticing that abc1 has just
started on Freeview. :-)

However I am personally quite happy to accept that some amplifiers can
make
audible differences in some circumstances.

I commend you to find a copy of Electronics World, August 2004 issue,
where the differences between regular Global NFB amplifiers and zero
Global NFB amplifiers is discussed. The article goes some way towards
uncovering what many listeners profess to hear.

If you are referring to the series of articles by Graham Maynard then I'd
recommend treating them with *great* caution.

I have been collecting them and trying to make sense of his claims and
"explanations". A lot of what he writes seems to me to be muddled,
ambiguous, and misleading. There are some useful points, but they are
buried in a lot of muddled arguments and misleading "explanations", I
think. Also quite a lot of what I might call "make mountains out of
molehills by describing well know effects out of context in a confused
manner". However I have been waiting until the full series is finished
before anaysing them in critical detail.

**I look forward to your analysis.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...


If you are referring to the series of articles by Graham Maynard then
I'd recommend treating them with *great* caution.


**I look forward to your analysis.

Stay tuned, but patience may be required. I'm still awaiting the conclusion
of his series of articles. Also, our library didn't get one issue so I'm
chasing that at present. Once I have them all I have to plough through his
rather rambling and ambiguous prose. (Have you tried counting how many
words some of his 'sentences' have!) Then I'll have to try and work out a
detailed re-analysis.

FWIW I think he has one or two decent points to make, but makes then in a
way that camoflages them in a forest of dubious claims, mountains out of
molehills, etc. I think the phrase for this is a "curate's egg". :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In message , Trevor Wilson
writes

"Bob Latham" wrote in message
...
I had an interesting experience this morning. I have been helping a hi-fi
newbie at work choose his first AV system. When it came to amplifiers I
had advised him to try the Arcam AVR300 which suited his requirements and
would nicely fit on his tv/hi-fi rack. Plus I knew of Arcam's excellent
after sales service and I have an AV8/P7 which I am very happy with.

All was well until someone suggested that it might be interesting to try
the Denon amp at a similar price as it was getting good reviews. It was
wired in to exactly the same cables and speakers and the speaker levels
(balance) were set the same.

My newbie mate was first to indicate his feelings. The Denon was, to my
ears considerably more alive and dynamic than the Arcam both on CD and DVD
music videos. The Arcam was warm and cuddly but very laid back. He decided
on the Denon and it was easy to have a preference.

This friend of mine had never been in a hi-fi dem in his life before and
because we were using a projector for the music DVDs the room was in
almost total darkness there was no subtle facial expressions guiding him
at all. Don't anyone ever tell me all good amps sound the same, they
simply don't, unless of course these amps are both not good. I will
concede that it could have been the DACs that were so different as we did
not use an analogue source but even so...

Incidentally, I wouldn't think the shop wanted that result as the Denon
was 300UKP cheaper.

**Contrary to popular opinion, there may well be differences between some
amplifiers. I commend you to find a copy of Electronics World, August 2004
issue, where the differences between regular Global NFB amplifiers and zero
Global NFB amplifiers is discussed. The article goes some way towards
uncovering what many listeners profess to hear.



Oh Please don't bring Graham up, his articles are full of half-truths
masquerading as 'research'.
--
Chris Morriss

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:57:37 +0100, Chris Morriss
wrote:

In message , Trevor Wilson
writes

**Contrary to popular opinion, there may well be differences between some
amplifiers. I commend you to find a copy of Electronics World, August 2004
issue, where the differences between regular Global NFB amplifiers and zero
Global NFB amplifiers is discussed. The article goes some way towards
uncovering what many listeners profess to hear.


Oh Please don't bring Graham up, his articles are full of half-truths
masquerading as 'research'.

Ah, but Trevor will uncritically wolf down anything which says that
zero global feedback is best! :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering