Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?
Cheers
Steve

"The EggKing" wrote in message
...
Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

The circumference of a 12" record is 12" x pi = 37.7"
Distance travelled in a minute = 37.7" x 33.3 = 1256.6"
1256.6 inches per minute = 0.53m/s

The circumference of a 7" record is 7" x pi = 22"
Distance travelled in a minute = 22" x 45 = 989.6"
989.6 inches per minute = 0.42m/s

So it seems that the first track of an LP is actually going 25% faster than
the start of a 7" single, and any point in the outside 2.5" of the LP will
be travelling faster than any point on the single. Obviously the size isn't
a factor on a 12" single, and they can indeed sound better.

In my experience, while you'd expect the end of a single to sound better
than the end of an LP, 7" singles often sounds worse, although I suspect
this is due to either singles being less well-made, the covers not being so
good at keeping out the dirt, or them being less well looked-after. Or me
buying them from car boot sales for 10p.

Andrew

"The EggKing" wrote in message


Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds);
Does the fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is
more defined?

It could, if it wasn't for the small radius...

As you're covering more distance with the same amount
of information you can get better definition, i.e.. your higher
frequencies appear longer on the faster spinning record and are
therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes and sorta.

In the day of... there were 12" stereo 45's for the audiophile market. They
suffered from a short playing time and of course all the slings and arrows
of being vinyl.

"Andrew Virnuls" wrote in message
...
"The EggKing" wrote in message
...
Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does
the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined?
As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you
can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on
the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

The circumference of a 12" record is 12" x pi = 37.7"
Distance travelled in a minute = 37.7" x 33.3 = 1256.6"
1256.6 inches per minute = 0.53m/s

The circumference of a 7" record is 7" x pi = 22"
Distance travelled in a minute = 22" x 45 = 989.6"
989.6 inches per minute = 0.42m/s

So it seems that the first track of an LP is actually going 25% faster
than
the start of a 7" single, and any point in the outside 2.5" of the LP will
be travelling faster than any point on the single. Obviously the size
isn't
a factor on a 12" single, and they can indeed sound better.

In my experience, while you'd expect the end of a single to sound better
than the end of an LP, 7" singles often sounds worse, although I suspect
this is due to either singles being less well-made, the covers not being
so
good at keeping out the dirt, or them being less well looked-after. Or me
buying them from car boot sales for 10p.

Andrew



Thanks for that. Good Maths.
Steve

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"The EggKing" wrote in message


Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds);
Does the fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is
more defined?

It could, if it wasn't for the small radius...

As you're covering more distance with the same amount
of information you can get better definition, i.e.. your higher
frequencies appear longer on the faster spinning record and are
therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes and sorta.

In the day of... there were 12" stereo 45's for the audiophile market.
They
suffered from a short playing time and of course all the slings and arrows
of being vinyl.


Yes I have friends, DJ type people, who have 12" singles etc. I was trying
to think up reasons why vinyl singles are considered special.

Thanks again

"The EggKing" wrote in message
...
Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?
Cheers
Steve


Yes, it's a 'resolution' thing due to a higher 'bitrate' of information
passing the pickup. Tim De Paravicini has made some interesting comments on
this.

I'm not too up on the technicalities myself but I have a number of 12 inch
45s and I can say from personal experience they sound better in terms of
'space' and 'airiness' and have a more 'aggressive' bassline than 33.33 LPs
by a small, but noticeable margin.

It is interesting that 15 minutes of music can be got on one side of a 12
inch 45 and I have often wondered why the two speeds didn't evolve into a
'best of both worlds' compromise at summat like 40 rpm....??

The EggKing wrote:
Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

in *THEORY* yes, however cutting vinyl is a far less precise technique
than making the pits on a CD, so...

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble, hence the
existence of 'audiophile' 12" 45s by RCA and others. OTOH, surface
noise is higher, so you pays your money and takes your choice.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble,


Bull****.


hence the
existence of 'audiophile' 12" 45s by RCA and others. OTOH, surface
noise is higher,


More bull****.

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds);
Does the fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is
more defined? As you're covering more distance with the same amount
of information you can get better definition, i.e.. your higher
frequencies appear longer on the faster spinning record and are
therefore easier to pick up. Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble,

Bull****.

Definition woudl be a synonym for resolution which is mathematically the
same thing as dynamic range. Thus the question simplifies to whether or not
a faster spinning disk has more dymanic range. Magnetic cartridges are
velocity sensors. For a given angle of displacement of the stylus, the
faster-spinning disk is going to produce more output. Going the other way,
dynamic range has always been a well-known limitation of 16 2/3 rpm disks.

However, dynamic range is not solely determined by maximum output, as will
be covered below.

hence the
existence of 'audiophile' 12" 45s by RCA and others. OTOH, surface
noise is higher,

More bull****.

Surface noise on LPs is caused by dust particles. A faster-moving dust
particle is going to impinge more strongly on the stylus, creating more
output. Therefore, surface noise can be expected to be higher on a 45, all
other things being equal.

If the noise floor of a LP is dominated by surface noise, both maximum
output and the noise floor are controlled by speed for zero net gain in
dynamic range.