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CD transports and resonance
"Paul Dormer" wrote in message ... "Ian Molton" emitted : Audibly?? Have you performed the necessary scientific tests to confirm this degradation with each subsequent listen? ;-) Having seen vinyl swarf peeling off a record I can guarantee the wear is audible once it gets bad enough. Yikes!! What kind of turntable was that on?? Did it have a nail for a stylus? ;-) I suspect the ****'s seen a cutting deck in a film or summat! |
CD transports and resonance
Keith G wrote:
"Paul Dormer" wrote in message ... "Ian Molton" emitted : Having seen vinyl swarf peeling off a record I can guarantee the wear is audible once it gets bad enough. Yikes!! What kind of turntable was that on?? Did it have a nail for a stylus? ;-) I suspect the ****'s seen a cutting deck in a film or summat! Nice to see you're feeling better, keith... |
CD transports and resonance
This is the snag with making obervations without reliable measurements. You
end up having to try things 'at random' in the hope some might seem better, but not then be sure if or why... (JL) This is true, but it doesn't rule out trial and error as a legitimate way of getting results. When you think how many times Beethoven re-wrote the 5th symphony (a process typical to composition), you can see that the final result was in fact a process of trial and error. I think it's quite fair to think of creating a sound system as an act of creativity, and as we know from the initial stages of the creative process multiple choices are combined with feedback of the effects of these choices to gradually narrow down the practical possibilities. This process of "divergent thinking" is the crucial part of creativity, since without trying out original and novel solutions there would effectively be no new solutions and therefore no continuance of creativity. It is only when the divergent thinking merges into "convergent thinking" as the solution is approached that testing begins in earnest. The two processes are essential - without divergent thinking (and by implication trial and error) there would be no original creations, and without convergent thinking there would be no worthwhile products. The convergent thinking may range from very complex testing to something as simple as 'I like it best and it satisfies my creative needs'. The other thing to be borne in mind here is that there are several personality factors which mitigate the manner of creation. The planner will plan an outline of the work to be done, the spontaneous thinker will experiment. The rational thinker will use logical steps, the emotive thinker will use instinct (both processes can be pesent in any one individual, of course, but there are dominant and shadow processes). We go on to consider Belbin's team role behaviour patterns. The Creative will try a large number of solutions and be less interested in following through, the Monitor Evaluator will soberly and coldly try out a restricted number of solutions in a methodical way, the Completer Finisher will agonise over details and make sure everything is correct. In a successful production business all roles may be required, but a single person can and will be any of these personalities, and a single person's thinking will be different depending on personality and typical strength of team role function. We will see, in audio, logical thinkers and instinctive thinkers. We will see creatives that work by trial and error, and we will see strategists and detail fanatics. The approach is different, the strengths are different, the thinking is different, and probably the products are different, although one would like to think they all work. Clearly we have different personalities on this newsgroup, and the very first thing to bear in mind with personalities is the idea of 'gifts differing' (MBTI) - the idea that all personalities are valid, and that they simply differ. Although the larger percentage groups in the population - extraverts, practical people rather than imaginative ones, thinkers (men) or 'feelers' (women) (in a male dominated society, therefore logical thinking), and planners (rather than improvisers) - tend to weight the thinking of a society as a whole, this weight of assumed preference is primarily a question of numbers rather than intrinsic worth of personality factors. Add to that the differences in micro-groups within the macro society, and we have another set of weighted parameters. The scientist will be cool, detached and critical (16PF factor A-) whereas the classical musician will typically be more instinctive and emotional, though in fact no less intelligent (16PF data). Sound to each group will have different meanings. One consequence of the above is that scientists are two things - people trained in science and its methods and people with personalities typically found in science. Care should be taken to differentiate necessity from personality. And vica versa - creatives are good at creating and understand the processes which bring it about, but they are also creative personalities - prone to trial and error, disrespectful of and rebellious against the establishment, and disinterested in following through once the more interesting divergent thinking has passed. Not scientific but less tedious... :-) As above. Far simpler IMHO to buy a Meridian and listen to the music. :-) Saying this to a creative is like asking a claustrophobic person to go potholing. === Andy Evans === Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com Audio, music and health pages and interesting links. |
CD transports and resonance
Paul Dormer wrote:
I think Im remembering it right. its certainly able to do a full CD in under 5 mins, which makes it 20 speed or better. But is that a clean rip?? I use EAC I think it's locked at 4x, but reports 100% accuracy. Yes. identical data both times in a row. |
CD transports and resonance
Andy Evans wrote:
This is the snag with making obervations without reliable measurements. You end up having to try things 'at random' in the hope some might seem better, but not then be sure if or why... (JL) This is true, but it doesn't rule out trial and error as a legitimate way of getting results. When you think how many times Beethoven re-wrote the 5th symphony (a process typical to composition), you can see that the final result was in fact a process of trial and error. I think it's quite fair to think of creating a sound system as an act of creativity, Thing is that when creating a symphony there is no definable goal. when creating an amp there is only one definable goal, which is linearity across the audible frequency range. if you want to go for a 'coloured' amp design, then all bets are off I guess. |
CD transports and resonance
"Andy Evans" wrote in message
completely @#$ked-up post quoting and formatting corrected. It's the high price one pays for trying to make sense of the blatherings of incompetents "Jim Lesurf" wrote in message This is the snag with making obervations without reliable measurements. You end up having to try things 'at random' in the hope some might seem better, but not then be sure if or why... (JL) This is true, but it doesn't rule out trial and error as a legitimate way of getting results. The word legitimate seems poorly applied here. I don't question the legitimacy of any positive results that are obtained by *any* means (in my way of thinking, results speak for themselves) but it is well known that random trial and error is almost always a highly inefficient means for investigation. When you think how many times Beethoven re-wrote the 5th symphony (a process typical to composition), you can see that the final result was in fact a process of trial and error. I submit that Beethoven, being an experienced and excellent composer did not use trial and error to write symphonies. Music theory had progressed well beyond trying random sequences of notes long before he was born. I think it's quite fair to think of creating a sound system as an act of creativity, and as we know from the initial stages of the creative process multiple choices are combined with feedback of the effects of these choices to gradually narrow down the practical possibilities. Right, but there's a lot that can be said for informed choices. There are very few people who will stand up and say: "I'm going to forget everything I know and proceed along the least well-informed lines that I can, with this investigation." That's simply dumb. This process of "divergent thinking" is the crucial part of creativity, since without trying out original and novel solutions there would effectively be no new solutions and therefore no continuance of creativity. Creativity is almost always a process that includes synthesis of existing knowlege. For example Edison relied on considerable existing technical knowlege when his team invented the light bulb. He hired an experienced glass blower to make the bulb, and the vacuum pump (an existing design) that he used to evacuate it. The idea of evacuating the bulb did not come from nowhere - it was based on what was already known about why things burn. In fact operating light bulbs existed before he built his first prototype - they just didn't last very long and/or weren't economical to build. In fact Humphery Davy had built a carbon-filament light bulb in 1809, some 70 years before Edison announced his. Edison based his design on a patent he had purchased from someone else. About 25 later the carbon-filament light bulb was obsoleted by the Tungsten filament light bulb. Sic transit gloria. It is only when the divergent thinking merges into "convergent thinking" as the solution is approached that testing begins in earnest. The process of testing is itself almost always based on a good knowlege of existing technology. In this CD transport fiasco at hand there was essentially no technical testing, and the subjective testing was highly flawed. In fact, good reliable means for both technical and subjective testing were readily available at almost no out-of-pocket cost. The two processes are essential - without divergent thinking (and by implication trial and error) there would be no original creations, and without convergent thinking there would be no worthwhile products. I'm not sure there was a heck of a lot of thought given to either the CD player construction project itself, or how it was tested. Regrettably, some try to deify this kind of anti-intellectual wheel-spinning. remaining self-aggrandizing twaddle snipped |
CD transports and resonance
"Ian Molton" wrote in message
Andy Evans wrote: This is the snag with making obervations without reliable measurements. You end up having to try things 'at random' in the hope some might seem better, but not then be sure if or why... (JL) This is true, but it doesn't rule out trial and error as a legitimate way of getting results. When you think how many times Beethoven re-wrote the 5th symphony (a process typical to composition), you can see that the final result was in fact a process of trial and error. I think it's quite fair to think of creating a sound system as an act of creativity, Thing is that when creating a symphony there is no definable goal. Horsefeathers. Composers have a variety of goals, some known, some unknown. Sometimes the goal was on the order of mainting a nice salaried position in some court, sometimes fame and fortune, sometimes the goal was to simply pass the time. when creating an amp there is only one definable goal, which is linearity across the audible frequency range. If there is only one definable goal for a power amp, then the goal would be to be the proverbial straight wire with gain. if you want to go for a 'coloured' amp design, then all bets are off I guess. Far better to just get a good parametric eq and a good clean amplifier. |
CD transports and resonance
In article , Andy Evans
wrote: This is the snag with making obervations without reliable measurements. You end up having to try things 'at random' in the hope some might seem better, but not then be sure if or why... (JL) This is true, but it doesn't rule out trial and error as a legitimate way of getting results. Not sure how you are defining "legitimate". However I'd agree that we need not exclude trial and error. But my points we 1) That we have to *learn* from the 'error' part, and be able to understand the results so they guide what we do next. 2) Using 'trial and error' does not rule out *other* methods which may be more systematic and better based on a large amount of prior knowledge which people have collected, analysed, and systematically understood. Thus as well as 'trial and error' we can then go on to add, 'use the error as data for a diagnosis to tell you what tests to perform next'. Then repeat this in a systematic and logical manner. 'trial and error' can work. But alas as soon as there is more than one variable it can take infinitely long, and not even converge... :-) Understanding tends in the end to save a lot of time and puzzlement, and improves your chance of a good end-result. Trial and error, by itself, does not. When you think how many times Beethoven re-wrote the 5th symphony (a process typical to composition), you can see that the final result was in fact a process of trial and error. Not really. He spent a lot of time and effort first learning about music. I'm also pretty sure that he tried things and then considered them carefully, not just wrote down the first thing that came to him and stopped there. Hence his 'trial and error' wasn't the functional equivalent of spraying some music paper with spots of ink, then turing the dots into quavers! For that reason it is misleading to describe such a process as 'trial and error' unless you include th bits about understanding and learning and then exploring/using the new understanding as well. :-) I think it's quite fair to think of creating a sound system as an act of creativity, and as we know from the initial stages of the creative process multiple choices are combined with feedback of the effects of these choices to gradually narrow down the practical possibilities. This process of "divergent thinking" is the crucial part of creativity, So is analytical and methodical thinking and being able to be self-critical, etc. Hence you can't pick one plum out of this cake and expect it to be the whole cake. [big snip] As above. Far simpler IMHO to buy a Meridian and listen to the music. :-) Saying this to a creative is like asking a claustrophobic person to go potholing. Sorry, I must not be 'creative' then, despite whatever I may have done. :-) Must go and get myself a purple hankie to wave about, and perhaps some frills for my shirt cuffs... ;- Note that I said 'simpler'. If you just want to listen to music, then Meridian makes sense. OTOH of you want to fiddle about, then trying things at random is fine. However if you want to *learn* from 'fiddling about' or 'trial and error' and hence both produce improved results, and have the satisfaction of having learned, then you need more than just 'try things at random and don't bother with any measurements or actual understanding', I'm afraid. FWIW I regularly used to get hold of other people's amp and pull them apart and find out how they worked. Good way to learn in my experience. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
CD transports and resonance
"Don Pearce" got all het up and spluttered... Well, you *are* saying you have discovered new, and this news group is the publishing vehicle of your choice. So this, I'm afraid, is where your discovery is going to be challenged. What you claim (observe) goes against everything that those of us who understand how CDs work believe is possible. This makes the claim extraordinary. Of course we can't simply say well done, we didn't know that. Such a response would be preposterous given our knowledge (call it belief if you like). So we say no, your hearing has been deceived in ways you are well accustomed to from your experience in psychology. Errr - I think you should go back and re-read the original post. He did _not_ come in claiming to have found something new. He reported his observations and asked if anyone else had noticed similar effects. Then the rest of the "every observation, unless supported by three years research, 200 independant witnesses and a Nobel Prize in physics and/or psychology (preferably both) is obviously a load of crap and should be shot down in case anyone investigates and finds it has a hint of truth" jumped on board. Not one of you has posted anything to say that you have looked at whether there might be any effects as originally described. None of you have cited any evidence or research which denies the possibility that the observed effects might actually have some basis. All I've seen is a stream of "that doesn't fit with what I've read, and I can't see any immediately obvious reason for it, so it must be wrong". Now, why have I just had this sudden recall of the telephone engineer who was laughed out of the War Office in 1940, and independantly developed the computer that co-ordinated England's radar defences . . . .??? _________ Geoff B |
CD transports and resonance
In article ,
New Geoff m.gjb SPHERICAL wrote: Not one of you has posted anything to say that you have looked at whether there might be any effects as originally described. None of you have cited any evidence or research which denies the possibility that the observed effects might actually have some basis. You've not been concentrating. Jim LeSurf has given one possible explanation. -- *Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
CD transports and resonance
I have to say in fairness to Jim, Don and Dave, that they suggested a number of
things, including ways I could test this. that was courteous and helpful of them, and I'm grateful . They also pointed out that if they were to treat it seriously as a claim, I should provide certain kinds of evidence, not just measured but aural as long as I was not sighted. I think all this is perfectly fair. I hadn't initially thought of making anything more than an observation - you are quite correct there - but since the observation was counter intuitive it's not surprising that there was a sceptical reaction (I did say in advance that I thought this was paradoxical). I found this thread valuable in looking at the process of evaluation in audio, so I'm grateful for all the comments made. Being my usual stubbornly questioning self, I have to report that the CD-ROM is currently bolted to a piece of alu held in a vice on the floor and supported in front with a tennis ball. Next step - a small marble chopping board to bolt it to. The motor vibrates quite a bit - possibly this may have an effect on error correction. It has been pointed out that a CD-ROM reads binary code perfectly adequately even allowing for its internal vibration, but I suppose it could also be said that it was designed to be bolted to a fairly inert computer to do so. I suspect it would read binary data anyway. Whatever the outcome, I'm having a look at various things in case there is a positive effect. Certainly one of my designer friends seems to think there is something in this. Andy === Andy Evans === Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com Audio, music and health pages and interesting links. |
CD transports and resonance
"Don Pearce" said... Geoff ; you want a conversation - learn some manners. I've sat here watching you all tear into someone who simply asked whether anyone else had observed anything that fell in line with his own findings. Not one of you showed any manners, or sensitivity for his feelings. But if I upset your terribly sensitive emotions, then I'm sorry. Please don't go and cry to your mummy - it was only words. Or then again - grow up. You were happy enough to join in with the bullying horde. I didn't see you showing any manners. Now, when you want a conversation, don't jump down someone's throat when they suggest something slightly outside the range of your peers' approval. ________ Geoff B |
CD transports and resonance
"Dave Plowman (News)" said... In article , New Geoff m.gjb SPHERICAL wrote: Not one of you has posted anything to say that you have looked at whether there might be any effects as originally described. None of you have cited any evidence or research which denies the possibility that the observed effects might actually have some basis. You've not been concentrating. Jim LeSurf has given one possible explanation. Umm - apart from the fact that whatever explaination might have been proffered not having appeared on my newsservers, he is vastly outnumbered by the 'anti' posters who offered no evidence whatsoever. One out of about 50 does not constitute a fair and balanced critique, if the other 49 where just issuing knee-jerk reactions. _______ Geoff B |
CD transports and resonance
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CD transports and resonance
"New Geoff" m.gjb SPHERICAL wrote in message
"Dave Plowman (News)" said... In article , New Geoff m.gjb SPHERICAL wrote: Not one of you has posted anything to say that you have looked at whether there might be any effects as originally described. None of you have cited any evidence or research which denies the possibility that the observed effects might actually have some basis. You've not been concentrating. Jim LeSurf has given one possible explanation. Umm - apart from the fact that whatever explaination might have been proffered not having appeared on my newsservers, he is vastly outnumbered by the 'anti' posters who offered no evidence whatsoever. What sort of evidence is required to overcome self-aggandizing pronouncments based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever? |
CD transports and resonance
Andy Evans wrote:
Being my usual stubbornly questioning self, If anything was noticed by your posts here its that you were stubbornly *un*questioning. I have to report that the CD-ROM is currently bolted to a piece of alu held in a vice on the floor and supported in front with a tennis ball. WTF? Next step - a small marble chopping board to bolt it to. Why ruin a perfectly good chopping board? The motor vibrates quite a bit - possibly this may have an effect on error correction. It has been pointed out that a CD-ROM reads binary code perfectly adequately even allowing for its internal vibration, but I suppose it could also be said that it was designed to be bolted to a fairly inert computer to do so. You must be joking. have you ever *heard* the racket a typical bargain bucket PC makes when reading a disc at over 16x? I suspect it would read binary data anyway. Its hardly likely to start reading trinary... Certainly one of my designer friends seems to think there is something in this. How come you guys always have a 'designer friend' ? |
CD transports and resonance
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CD transports and resonance
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CD transports and resonance
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:03:01 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: In article , New Geoff m.gjb SPHERICAL wrote: Not one of you has posted anything to say that you have looked at whether there might be any effects as originally described. None of you have cited any evidence or research which denies the possibility that the observed effects might actually have some basis. You've not been concentrating. Jim LeSurf has given one possible explanation. And like everyone else, has been ignored by Evans, who is not interested in the reality of the situation, but has gone charging off down his blind alley without having a clue about what he's doing, and with no attempt to check the real effect of any of his actions. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
CD transports and resonance
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:02:58 +0000 (UTC), "New Geoff" m.gjb SPHERICAL
wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" said... In article , New Geoff m.gjb SPHERICAL wrote: Not one of you has posted anything to say that you have looked at whether there might be any effects as originally described. None of you have cited any evidence or research which denies the possibility that the observed effects might actually have some basis. You've not been concentrating. Jim LeSurf has given one possible explanation. Umm - apart from the fact that whatever explaination might have been proffered not having appeared on my newsservers, Yeah, riiiiiiight..................... he is vastly outnumbered by the 'anti' posters who offered no evidence whatsoever. One out of about 50 does not constitute a fair and balanced critique, if the other 49 where just issuing knee-jerk reactions. You are a liar, and a troll. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
CD transports and resonance
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
Bullying horde? Please explain how you can assemble a 'bullying horde' on a Usenet newsgroup. ****. Whilst agreeing with your other points, I dont see why you cant assemble a 'bullying hoarde' on a newsgroup. Indeed, they are often self-assembling. |
CD transports and resonance
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:29:25 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote: Bullying horde? Please explain how you can assemble a 'bullying horde' on a Usenet newsgroup. ****. Whilst agreeing with your other points, I dont see why you cant assemble a 'bullying hoarde' on a newsgroup. Indeed, they are often self-assembling. You can actually have a bullying horde of one, of course. Just read an average Keith G post as an example. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
CD transports and resonance
In article , New Geoff m.gjb SPHERICAL
wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" said... In article , New Geoff m.gjb SPHERICAL wrote: Not one of you has posted anything to say that you have looked at whether there might be any effects as originally described. None of you have cited any evidence or research which denies the possibility that the observed effects might actually have some basis. You've not been concentrating. Jim LeSurf has given one possible explanation. Umm - apart from the fact that whatever explaination might have been proffered not having appeared on my newsservers, he is vastly outnumbered by the 'anti' posters who offered no evidence whatsoever. Does this posting appear on your server OK? If so, you can use the header to search for my previous postings on this topic. One out of about 50 does not constitute a fair and balanced critique, if the other 49 where just issuing knee-jerk reactions. Well, to be more precise, I think I actually suggested *two* possible mechanisms for what Andy reported, and did so over more than one posting. I also think that some other posters also discussed/suggested these mechanisms. So my recollection is that I was not alone in this. ahem And whilst clarifying a bit, my name is actually "Lesurf", not "LeSurf"... :-) Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
CD transports and resonance
This process of "divergent thinking" is the crucial part of creativity,(AE)
So is analytical and methodical thinking and being able to be self-critical, etc. .(JL) If you look at my whole post, you will see that I do say that analytical and methodical thinking are essential for creativity also, but are more characteristic of 'convergent' thinking (see J.Guilford). They tend to be more important later in the process after many divergent ideas have been considered (I point out that in Belbin's terminology this would be closer to "Monitor - Evaluator" than his Plant). The point I was making is not that one is preferable to the other, but that for creativity to take place (not just analysis and construction) there needs to be an initial period where diverse ideas are considered. I could be more precise and say that we could divide creativity into original types of creativity and productive types, and that for original creativity it is the process of divergent thinking that is crucial. Using the terminology of AI this could be P creativity (new to the person) or H creativity (new to history), and could be Combinational (using or synthesising existing ideas) Exploratory (novel versions within a familiar framework) or Transformational (new conceptual invention) (see Andrew Evans "This Virtual Life - Escapism and Simulation in our Media World" 2001, Fusion Press, London pp158-162) === Andy Evans === Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com Audio, music and health pages and interesting links. |
CD transports and resonance
You can actually have a bullying horde of one, of course...(DP)
That's a nice way of putting it! Andy === Andy Evans === Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com Audio, music and health pages and interesting links. |
CD transports and resonance
In article , Andy Evans
wrote: Being my usual stubbornly questioning self, I have to report that the CD-ROM is currently bolted to a piece of alu held in a vice on the floor and supported in front with a tennis ball. Next step - a small marble chopping board to bolt it to. The motor vibrates quite a bit - possibly this may have an effect on error correction. It has been pointed out that a CD-ROM reads binary code perfectly adequately even allowing for its internal vibration, but I suppose it could also be said that it was designed to be bolted to a fairly inert computer to do so. Don't know about the above. However remember that the CD systems employs servo systems to control the tracking, focus, etc. Without these it simply would not work even in the absence of any vibration. The servo systems are designed to keep the read spot(s) tracking and reading OK despite the expected levels of vibration. I suspect it would read binary data anyway. Whatever the outcome, I'm having a look at various things in case there is a positive effect. Certainly one of my designer friends seems to think there is something in this. Many people beleive many (often conflicting) things... :-) However by making the tests I (and others) have suggested you can probably resolve this question fairly easily. If you want to monitor the servos, you could probably also connect your scope to the servo lines that feed the actuators and establish that the drive patterns are not clipping or excessive in size. Tapping the drive whilst doing this will check. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
CD transports and resonance
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
Why have you never just ripped the files to a PC and verified that something is really happening, instead of pratting around with things you obviously don't understand? That would spoil the fun and self-aggrandization. That's what your 'designer friend' should be advising you to do. Methinks the 'designer friend' is an interior decorator. |
CD transports and resonance
In article , Andy Evans
wrote: This process of "divergent thinking" is the crucial part of creativity,(AE) So is analytical and methodical thinking and being able to be self-critical, etc. .(JL) If you look at my whole post, you will see that I do say that analytical and methodical thinking are essential for creativity also, but are more characteristic of 'convergent' thinking (see J.Guilford). No idea who J Guilford is, but I am happy to agree with the above. They tend to be more important later in the process after many divergent ideas have been considered Yes. This is essentially why I was advising what tests you could perform to try and make 'sense' of your initial observation that you percive a difference you associate with vibration/resonance. (I point out that in Belbin's terminology this would be closer to "Monitor - Evaluator" than his Plant). The point I was making is not that one is preferable to the other, but that for creativity to take place (not just analysis and construction) there needs to be an initial period where diverse ideas are considered. Yes, and the 'consideration' in this context should really involve suitable tests whose results can be used to understand/diagnose what may actually be occuring. The aim being to establish reliable understanding as a basis for guiding what might be the most advantageous 'next step'. (Although I also have no idea who Belbin might be.) However this means examining the hypothesis that the vibration is having an affect, and if so, via what mechanism. Having established that, it shows what area should be addressed. The examination/testing of the hypothesis should be an appropriate means whose outcome might either support or falsify your hypothesis, and that for a specific mechanism, or being able to distinguish between 'competing' mechanism hypotheses. i.e. Scientific Method. My interest, though, is not in the theory of creativity. It is to try and help you develop better kit, and gain understanding in the process. I regret to say that I have always been a poor theoretician. :-) Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
CD transports and resonance
If you want to monitor the servos, you could probably also connect your
scope to the servo lines that feed the actuators and establish that the drive patterns are not clipping or excessive in size. Tapping the drive whilst doing this will check. Hello Jim - I've made a not of this. Thanks. andy === Andy Evans === Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com Audio, music and health pages and interesting links. |
CD transports and resonance
In article , Andy Evans
wrote: If you want to monitor the servos, you could probably also connect your scope to the servo lines that feed the actuators and establish that the drive patterns are not clipping or excessive in size. Tapping the drive whilst doing this will check. Hello Jim - I've made a not of this. Thanks. andy FWIW there are some books on servicing and 'troubeshooting' CD players. Although the one I have is quite old, and only deals with CD-A players, not CDROM drives. Might be worth your while looking for books on this, though. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
CD transports and resonance
My interest, though, is not in the theory of creativity. It is to try and help
you develop better kit, and gain understanding in the process. That's very kind of you. I really must get my scope out and find out how to use it. I think a good service would be a start. It's a Philips PM3214. Where would I get that serviced and recalibrated? === Andy Evans === Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com Audio, music and health pages and interesting links. |
CD transports and resonance
On 12 Nov 2004 09:56:31 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote: My interest, though, is not in the theory of creativity. It is to try and help you develop better kit, and gain understanding in the process. That's very kind of you. I really must get my scope out and find out how to use it. I think a good service would be a start. It's a Philips PM3214. Where would I get that serviced and recalibrated? Andy - switch it on, provided it works, you can calibrate it yourself. It should have a calibration signal that will let you set the gain of the vertical amplifiers, and adjust the trimmer capacitors in any x10 probes (tweak for nicest square wave). As for frequency calibration, it is unlikely to be off, and it really doesn't matter if it is a bit out - you aren't likely to be using it to measure frequencies. As for using it - just poke around and see what you see, get used to setting the timebase to see clear waveforms, and the trigger controls to keep them steady. And be careful only to clip the ground lead on the probe to ground points in the circuit. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
CD transports and resonance
I'm starting a file called 'scope' for all comments and instructions. I'll
obviously need some tuition. the previous owner suggested a service - he used it all the time, and used to tap it if something stuck. Sounds like that could be improved. I think he said they were serviced in ilton Keynes or Watford - somehwere up there. I'll have to find out. I've also got a signal generator and another box of some description. this is all ex-Beard Audio when I bought out the remaining stock when Bill went off on his boat. Andy === Andy Evans === Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com Audio, music and health pages and interesting links. |
CD transports and resonance
On 12 Nov 2004 10:28:22 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote: I'm starting a file called 'scope' for all comments and instructions. I'll obviously need some tuition. the previous owner suggested a service - he used it all the time, and used to tap it if something stuck. Sounds like that could be improved. I think he said they were serviced in ilton Keynes or Watford - somehwere up there. I'll have to find out. I've also got a signal generator and another box of some description. this is all ex-Beard Audio when I bought out the remaining stock when Bill went off on his boat. Andy Go round to your mate who tests your amps for some driving lessons - that'll be hundreds of times more effective than anything you can get here. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
CD transports and resonance
Go round to your mate who tests your amps for some driving lessons -
that'll be hundreds of times more effective than anything you can get here. It's his old scope! === Andy Evans === Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com Audio, music and health pages and interesting links. |
CD transports and resonance
On 12 Nov 2004 10:59:42 GMT, ohawker (Andy
Evans) wrote: Go round to your mate who tests your amps for some driving lessons - that'll be hundreds of times more effective than anything you can get here. It's his old scope! Then he is the ideal person for the task. d Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
CD transports and resonance
In article , Don Pearce
wrote: On 12 Nov 2004 10:59:42 GMT, ohawker (Andy Evans) wrote: Go round to your mate who tests your amps for some driving lessons - that'll be hundreds of times more effective than anything you can get here. It's his old scope! Then he is the ideal person for the task. :-) BTW I agree with what Don has said about checking the scope. You could also check that on DC its readings are consistent with your voltmeter when they are both connected to, say, a battery at the same time. This ensures that you aren't caught out by a drop in voltage in the scope affecting the size of its test signal. If you know the frequency of the test signal you can also look at it with the scope triggered from the mains ('line'). This gives a rough check on the frequency that should be good enough for general purposes, and can give an approximate check of your time scale. In a 'pro' lab I'd recommend getting a more serious calibration done. But for normal day-to-day work what Don has outlined should be quite satisfactory. Slainte, Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html |
CD transports and resonance
Hi,
In message , Jim Lesurf writes I have some CDs with pinholes. However so far as can tell, these have had them since purchase, and they have not altered. They seem playable with not audible problems I have noticed. The Philips Red Book spec caters for quite large holes in the info layer without this necessarily preventing recovery of the correct sample values. I recently read an article by M.S. Rohan entitled "When Caruso went foggy and started sweating" which describes problems with compact discs, and their suitability (or not) as a long term storage medium. I get the impression that there are some in the music industry that do not feel CDs will last as well as the public has been led to expect. "Perfect sound forever" is a bold claim, after all. We are probably fortunate that it is so easy to archive the data; we are unfortunate that it is currently illegal to do so in the UK. I've also had a number of the PDO Blackburn 'brown rot' discs, and they have replaced them all FOC when returned to them. However these don't show holes. Just a brown discolouration of the metal. I've never seen this first hand, but I have a number of older CDs that seem to be deteriorating with age (visually at least - they still play without problems). I have bought a CD that had mould though. I'm guessing this was just due to bad storage, and nothing to do with manufacturing. The surface of the disc was mottled green. Very odd, as the case showed no signs of it. -- Regards, Glenn Booth |
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