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How did you get into valves?
Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham, no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me 'How did you get into valves, then? Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve amp, I never looked back! That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode amp next week and the other sometime in the near future! Ya hafta larf!! :-) |
How did you get into valves?
"Keith G" wrote in message ... Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham, no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me 'How did you get into valves, then? Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve amp, I never looked back! That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode amp next week and the other sometime in the near future! Ya hafta larf!! :-) Where are you based, Keith? |
How did you get into valves?
"JustMe" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham, no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me 'How did you get into valves, then? Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve amp, I never looked back! That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode amp next week and the other sometime in the near future! Ya hafta larf!! :-) Where are you based, Keith? Eaton Ford, St Neots, Cambs (Chav Central, UK :-) See: http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/modules.p...=print&sid=369 |
How did you get into valves?
Keith G wrote:
Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham, no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me 'How did you get into valves, then? Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve amp, I never looked back! That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode amp next week and the other sometime in the near future! Ya hafta larf!! :-) Aye, nab 'em while they're young! I've only got into the valve thing quite recently having shown a passing interest for many years. Curiosity sated as a result of having the money and the current choice - ebay in particular. And I'd have to add Keith G and his advice and photo journals (and others on this ng). I now have SS and valve amps and I prefer the way valve amps deal with the music. There's the sound (the physical amplification) which quite surprised me - not 'lush', limited (in loudness and dynacism) or distorted as I'd been led to believe. The main asset is the sense of depth they manage to relay, while losing very little in terms of detail. I don't think this phenomenon measures - you'd just have to listen. Then there's the 'hobbyist' thing - the look, feel, and almost manageable understanding of how the things work and relative ease of maintenance. And there's a tangible sense of 'built to last' - i'd bet that by proportional sales valve amps occupy far less landfill than SS cousins (even given valve replacements). I quite often get friends ask me about hifi and I never recommend valve amps at the outset. I try to figure out what they want and what they have to spend, and most of the time it just involves a trip to Richer sounds - amp, tuner, cd chosen by look/price, and usually a bit extra for speakers depending on their room (two fundamentals IMO). My point here is that valves are not for all - Keith made that clear to me (not sure if he meant to!) - there are costs of ownership related to heat/exposed valves (kids and animals) and valve replacement every few years. And it has to be said that a lot of people don't care about the sound quality of an amplifier at this level - they'd detect 'difference' without judging either better or worse - except perhaps on extended listening when (of course!) they'd choose valves. Rob |
How did you get into valves?
In article ,
Rob wrote: And there's a tangible sense of 'built to last' - i'd bet that by proportional sales valve amps occupy far less landfill than SS cousins (even given valve replacements). You jest? I had Quad II valve equipment for quite some time - say near 10 years. Needed one mains transformer, one output transformer, several paper capacitors and countless valves. The 303 that replaced it is now living out its life driving my subs. And is well over 30 years old. With no repairs ever needed. Even the light still works. ;-) I daresay its performance could be improved with a smattering of new electrolytics, but until I hear some burbling or whatever, they'll do. -- *I love cats...they taste just like chicken. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
How did you get into valves?
Rob wrote: Keith G wrote: Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham, no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me 'How did you get into valves, then? Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve amp, I never looked back! That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode amp next week and the other sometime in the near future! Ya hafta larf!! :-) Aye, nab 'em while they're young! I've only got into the valve thing quite recently having shown a passing interest for many years. Curiosity sated as a result of having the money and the current choice - ebay in particular. And I'd have to add Keith G and his advice and photo journals (and others on this ng). I now have SS and valve amps and I prefer the way valve amps deal with the music. There's the sound (the physical amplification) which quite surprised me - not 'lush', limited (in loudness and dynacism) or distorted as I'd been led to believe. The main asset is the sense of depth they manage to relay, while losing very little in terms of detail. I don't think this phenomenon measures - you'd just have to listen. Then there's the 'hobbyist' thing - the look, feel, and almost manageable understanding of how the things work and relative ease of maintenance. And there's a tangible sense of 'built to last' - i'd bet that by proportional sales valve amps occupy far less landfill than SS cousins (even given valve replacements). I quite often get friends ask me about hifi and I never recommend valve amps at the outset. I try to figure out what they want and what they have to spend, and most of the time it just involves a trip to Richer sounds - amp, tuner, cd chosen by look/price, and usually a bit extra for speakers depending on their room (two fundamentals IMO). My point here is that valves are not for all - Keith made that clear to me (not sure if he meant to!) - there are costs of ownership related to heat/exposed valves (kids and animals) and valve replacement every few years. And it has to be said that a lot of people don't care about the sound quality of an amplifier at this level - they'd detect 'difference' without judging either better or worse - except perhaps on extended listening when (of course!) they'd choose valves. Rob You either like em or dismiss them. But this issue of reliablity crops up time and time again. But most SS amps will need a fix sooner or later like all boxes full of electronics costing a grand or two. My 1982 Phillips tele has needed 3 fixes worth an average of $100 each since I bought it in 1982. It now needs fix no 4, and it lies dormant and useless since it went phut again before the last olympics. I am better off without the brain interference of TV. I fix amps for a living, and the shed is often cluttered with SS amps whose output stages have fused. Then there is the constant stream of noise faults, intermittent drop outs, and switch failures. Nothing lasts forever. There are constant phone calls for service for 3 in 1 stereo systems where the complexity is fragile and the CD player mechanisms give up or malfunction. I try to avoid fixing them, since owners don't like paying much. An ARC SP8 preamp came in the other day. In 1/2 an hour I was able to check the whole circuit out easily. One half of a 12AX7 had stopped working. I just plugged another in, and it should last 20 years. Many of the ancient amps made by Quad, leak etc have fragile output transformers. These are indeed expensive to rewind to the original spec, so its better tp replace the OPTs with something made recently, because the quality of the old OPTs wasn't very good. There was no active protection fitted to old amps so they would sometimes sustain a fused OPT winding if a tube decided to run red hot and saturated with say 300 mA instead of the usual bias current of 50 mA. This wasn't enough to cause a fuse to blow. This was often caused by loose grid connections or stuffed coupling caps. Old gear needs all the caps and resistors changed, and all the plug and socket joints tightened up. There are many Quad II amps still being used after 50 years. I have never seen a faulty switch in a Quad 22 control unit, but I have seen plenty of rotten carbon comp resistors and lousy Hunts caps. I wonder how many average quality SS amps made now will still be in service in 2054? Will anyone be carrying the workshop manuals then? Will anyone be able to fix anything or have the spare parts? Will anyone need to fix it? Maybe there won't be any need for audio visual equipments except a brain implant device to convey it all by RF digital signals to suit our brains own digital signals. ( I assume there will be people with brains, but since I see a few about now without a brain, there will always be samples where there is room for what would be a manufactured improvement). Perhaps far more breathtaking experiences can be sold to folks to pipe directly to the brain cells. Maybe we won't need a PC either. Patrick Turner |
How did you get into valves?
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:38:40 +0000, Rob
wrote: I now have SS and valve amps and I prefer the way valve amps deal with the music. There's the sound (the physical amplification) which quite surprised me - not 'lush', limited (in loudness and dynacism) or distorted as I'd been led to believe. The main asset is the sense of depth they manage to relay, while losing very little in terms of detail. I don't think this phenomenon measures - you'd just have to listen. It does measure - it's reverberation due to valve microphonics. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
How did you get into valves?
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How did you get into valves?
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes In article , Rob wrote: And there's a tangible sense of 'built to last' - i'd bet that by proportional sales valve amps occupy far less landfill than SS cousins (even given valve replacements). You jest? I had Quad II valve equipment for quite some time - say near 10 years. Needed one mains transformer, one output transformer, several paper capacitors and countless valves. The 303 that replaced it is now living out its life driving my subs. And is well over 30 years old. With no repairs ever needed. Even the light still works. ;-) I daresay its performance could be improved with a smattering of new electrolytics, but until I hear some burbling or whatever, they'll do. I'd upgrade it Dave I've done the one that the wife uses in her study driving her new Quads and she's well pleased:) Only cost about 20 quid, a bloke in somersham up our way makes a simple kit of parts for them. Apart from that its a good idea to catch them before the spew electrolyte all over the boards!.. The LF performance is likely to be down from what it should be too.... -- Tony Sayer |
How did you get into valves?
"Tony Gartshore" wrote in message t... In article , says... Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham, no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me 'How did you get into valves, then? Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve amp, I never looked back! Many years ago I bought a box at a big jumble sale (Pre boot sales). Inside it was a Garrard 301, 12" SME arm and what appeared to be a home built copy of a Leak design valve amp with a Mullard pre.. How about that for a Reality Check? - Just how *annoyed* would you be to buy a similar 'box' for the same money (equivalent) today and find *exactly* the same things inside it?? Answers on a postcard please.... I used the amp with a Sugden BD1 deck build on a slate slab, Goldring Lenco arm/cartridge and a pair of Leak sandwich speakers. Sounded sweet as a nut. Yebbut, was it 'accurate'....??? ;-) The 301/SME I swapped for a QUAD2 / 22 which I used for a few years. Still have the IIs but the 22 vanished in a house move some years back. . Switched to a Nait2 and then to an Audiolab 8000S. Very tempted to try one of your Chinese amps, or maybe get the Quads refettled.. There is always 'Option C' that's both options A *and* B (My lifetime 'modus vivendi'...... :-) |
How did you get into valves?
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message ... You either like em or dismiss them. But this issue of reliablity crops up time and time again. But most SS amps will need a fix sooner or later like all boxes full of electronics costing a grand or two. My 1982 Phillips tele has needed 3 fixes worth an average of $100 each since I bought it in 1982. It now needs fix no 4, and it lies dormant and useless since it went phut again before the last olympics. I am better off without the brain interference of TV. **My 1968 Marantz Model Eighteen Receiver has been operating every day, in my workshop, since 1978 (dunno about it's history prior to that), with only one fix. I allowed it to operate into a damaged speaker for about 30 mins, before it carked it. Except for the CRO (a tube, I might add) it has not missed a beat, since the last service (ca; 1985). I fix amps for a living, and the shed is often cluttered with SS amps whose output stages have fused. Then there is the constant stream of noise faults, intermittent drop outs, and switch failures. Nothing lasts forever. There are constant phone calls for service for 3 in 1 stereo systems where the complexity is fragile and the CD player mechanisms give up or malfunction. I try to avoid fixing them, since owners don't like paying much. An ARC SP8 preamp came in the other day. In 1/2 an hour I was able to check the whole circuit out easily. One half of a 12AX7 had stopped working. I just plugged another in, and it should last 20 years. **Or not. Most tubes go microphonic after awhile. Many of the ancient amps made by Quad, leak etc have fragile output transformers. These are indeed expensive to rewind to the original spec, so its better tp replace the OPTs with something made recently, because the quality of the old OPTs wasn't very good. There was no active protection fitted to old amps so they would sometimes sustain a fused OPT winding if a tube decided to run red hot and saturated with say 300 mA instead of the usual bias current of 50 mA. This wasn't enough to cause a fuse to blow. This was often caused by loose grid connections or stuffed coupling caps. Old gear needs all the caps and resistors changed, and all the plug and socket joints tightened up. There are many Quad II amps still being used after 50 years. I have never seen a faulty switch in a Quad 22 control unit, but I have seen plenty of rotten carbon comp resistors and lousy Hunts caps. **The power switch on the 22 is a notorious problem. I've serviced at least three, in my memory. The resistors are a real problem, of course, in any product of that vintage. I wonder how many average quality SS amps made now will still be in service in 2054? **My Marantz Model Eighteen will be (except for the CRO). Same deal with my regular audio equipment. One of my amps dates back to 1978 and is not only still working fine, but it still sounds better than most contemporary products. Will anyone be carrying the workshop manuals then? **They'll be on the web (along with everything else). Almost nothing that is published today, will be lost. Will anyone be able to fix anything or have the spare parts? **Possibly not. Tubes will be real hard to get in 2054. Real, REAL hard. Will anyone need to fix it? **Probably not. Assuming the planet does not get destroyed within the next 50 years, future developments will probably ensure that amplifiers will be completely disposable items. Maybe there won't be any need for audio visual equipments except a brain implant device to convey it all by RF digital signals to suit our brains own digital signals. **A very real probability. I recall sci-fi novel which suggested such a thing. ( I assume there will be people with brains, but since I see a few about now without a brain, there will always be samples where there is room for what would be a manufactured improvement). Perhaps far more breathtaking experiences can be sold to folks to pipe directly to the brain cells. Maybe we won't need a PC either. **That is a given. PCs are an interim step. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
How did you get into valves?
"Keith G" wrote in message ... Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham, no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me 'How did you get into valves, then? Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve amp, I never looked back! That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode amp next week and the other sometime in the near future! Hi Keith, I have always been surprised by the number of people who seem to have only a passing interest in audio,but are completely taken aback when they hear a good valve system. Like many in this group, I grew up with valves (my Dad had a Leak TL12) and later Quad II's which were passed on to me. When I went to Decca, just at the end of the valve era, I learned to appreciate Radford STA 25 and STA100 amplifiers Like most of us, I followed the trend and changed to a SS amp in the 70's. I remained brand faithful and bought a SS Radford, the ZD200 at 100Wpc into 8 Ohms. I still have the receipt. It cost me the magnificient sum of £245 plus VAT.That was a lot of money back then!! Luckily, I put my valve amps in the attic. One day feeling nostalgic, I dug out the STA25, only to find that I preferred its interpretation of the music. A few years ago, I set up a 50W valve amp in a 24 track digital audio post production suite where I worked, just to see what the reaction would be. After a month, I took it away, and producers and clients began to ask after it, so I had no choice but to take it back there. It stayed in situ for 5 years, the service dept added it to their list of equipment to be measured and maintained, and the company happily paid for a new set of valves every 1000 hrs:-) The suite was fitted out for Dolby surround to picture on digi Beta, with LR monitoring driven by SS Amcrons, (with a bandwidth approaching the proverbial DC to daylight, and THD 0.001% or something amazing) These remained with their power switches in the OFF position for those five years. Without exception clients preferred the valve amp. A quad of EL34's take some beating:-) Iain |
How did you get into valves?
"Iain M Churches" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham, no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me 'How did you get into valves, then? Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve amp, I never looked back! That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode amp next week and the other sometime in the near future! Hi Keith, I have always been surprised by the number of people who seem to have only a passing interest in audio,but are completely taken aback when they hear a good valve system. Like many in this group, I grew up with valves (my Dad had a Leak TL12) and later Quad II's which were passed on to me. When I went to Decca, just at the end of the valve era, I learned to appreciate Radford STA 25 and STA100 amplifiers Like most of us, I followed the trend and changed to a SS amp in the 70's. I remained brand faithful and bought a SS Radford, the ZD200 at 100Wpc into 8 Ohms. I still have the receipt. It cost me the magnificient sum of £245 plus VAT.That was a lot of money back then!! Luckily, I put my valve amps in the attic. One day feeling nostalgic, I dug out the STA25, only to find that I preferred its interpretation of the music. What I wonder is, will 'youngsters' who are discovering valves today ever go back to ss?? My own son used a 'loaner/gift' valve amp from me for over a year and loved it, but he was quite happy to go back to a Technics (his 'favourite brand' for 2 channel hifi gear) ss amp and has no further interest in valves, it seems.... (??? :-) A few years ago, I set up a 50W valve amp in a 24 track digital audio post production suite where I worked, just to see what the reaction would be. After a month, I took it away, and producers and clients began to ask after it, so I had no choice but to take it back there. It stayed in situ for 5 years, the service dept added it to their list of equipment to be measured and maintained, and the company happily paid for a new set of valves every 1000 hrs:-) The suite was fitted out for Dolby surround to picture on digi Beta, with LR monitoring driven by SS Amcrons, (with a bandwidth approaching the proverbial DC to daylight, and THD 0.001% or something amazing) These remained with their power switches in the OFF position for those five years. :-) Without exception clients preferred the valve amp. A quad of EL34's take some beating:-) Yes, as I am in the process of discovering! I had wondered about EL34s for quite a while - ever since I was sent a set in error (s/h/b EL84s for the above mentioned amp) and decided to keep them anyway. I had often read/heard that they were a bit hard/harsh/clangy and were best suited to guitar amps. But I also kept seeing them used in 'impressive' Illustrious Names amps in the comix and had often wondered what it was all about. I was about to build an EL34 amp myself, when I saw the cheap Chinese/German amps on eBay and grabbed one at about half the price of the parts. My favourite supplier, Phil Ramsey of http://www.bluebellaudio.com/, seems to have lost the plot a bit lately**, so I thought I'd short-circuit proceedings and give one a go and scratch the 'chinese valve amp curiosity' itch at the same time! :-) (I grabbed another one to 'butcher' at a later date, in any case....) With the Chinese power valves replaced with JJ-Teslas (important) and the driver/splitters replaced with (allegedly) NOS Mullards (not so important, I suspect) and fronting it up with my EAR Line Stage, this 'cheapy chinky' has turned into a snarling monster which is spanking a pair of B&W DM2As all over the place atm!! (Damn near as much grip as Rob's 100wpc Beard P100, I suspect!!) (I reckon to give Phil North a damn good scare with it sometime next week, at any rate!! ;-) **Mid-life crisis, I suspect....!!! :-) |
How did you get into valves?
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "JustMe" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham, no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me 'How did you get into valves, then? Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve amp, I never looked back! That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode amp next week and the other sometime in the near future! Ya hafta larf!! :-) Where are you based, Keith? Eaton Ford, St Neots, Cambs (Chav Central, UK :-) See: http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/modules.p...=print&sid=369 Hey Keith, I used to go fishing on the river ouse just near there. Am in Australia now, brought my Copland and Castles with me (couldn't bear to part withy them). Steve |
How did you get into valves?
"Steve Batt" wrote Where are you based, Keith? Eaton Ford, St Neots, Cambs (Chav Central, UK :-) See: http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/modules.p...=print&sid=369 Hey Keith, I used to go fishing on the river ouse just near there. It's 'Dragon Boat' racing these days..... Am in Australia now, brought my Copland and Castles with me (couldn't bear to part withy them). :-) |
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