"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

String quartets ain't every kind of music that some of us want to listen
to. They are simple, sonically and don't tax the IM characeristics of the
amp. Also, some of us think it isn't fun being restricted to only high
efficiency speakers with the *right* impedance curve.

Then we are all in agreement then:-)
But, spend the time to listen to an SET amp with a small ensemble,
well recorded. It really is a wonderful experience.


Iain

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

Put complex sounds in or attach the wrong speaker and your typical
SET will sound like ****.

I am sure we all agree that they are no appropriate for all types of
music, but for those who listen to small ensembles, SET can sound
remarkably
good.

Contrasts with SS amps which sound good with a wide variety of music and
speakers.

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

String quartets ain't every kind of music that some of us want to
listen to. They are simple, sonically and don't tax the IM
characeristics of the amp. Also, some of us think it isn't fun being
restricted to only high efficiency speakers with the *right*
impedance curve.

Then we are all in agreement then:-)
But, spend the time to listen to an SET amp with a small ensemble,
well recorded. It really is a wonderful experience.

I prefer SS for this and all other music listening. More natural, and I know
natural because I record.

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:13:04 +0200, "Iain M Churches"
wrote:
That's why push-pull operation was invented in the '20s, and only
audiofools want to go back to before those days...............

Interesting that most of the well informed members of RAT tended to
disagree with you vehently on this point.

Besides, since you mention
Andre Jute, he has already stated that his own preference is for the
300B in P-P configuration.

He did indeed say that, "for higher listening levels"

Even amongst valvies, the SET amp is a
'lunatic fringe' device.

Domestic audio seems a bit like an asylum, sometimes
it is difficult to tell the keepers from the lunatics:-))

As ever, you are misinformed.
Try not to be so unpleasant. Mr P:-)


The KISS amp is supposed to be *simple*, not necessarily the best
possible SET amp. Besides, neither I nor anyone else except possibly
Andre has listened to this amp, since he hasn't yet published the
circuit.

Anyone with more than a sniping acquaintance with Andre, would know
that he has been designing and building amplifiers for a very long time.
KISS is by no means his first. I believe that he has had some designs
published, so many have had a chance to build and listen. He has a
very good reputation both as an amp designer and a journalist/music
reviewer.

You promised to build an SS amp, to the same performance specification.
Many of those on RAT are eagerly awaiting your design, so that we may build
both your and Andre's amplifier. Please do not disappoint us.

Do try to keep up, or people may feel that you are not well
informed.

Looking back over some archive posts in this NG, I see that most
threads turn into your "all good SS amps sound the same"
Not much to keep up with, is there? :-))

Don't believe everything you're told by acolytes of the evil god SET!
If they were 'well informed', they'd be using push-pull amps........

I am sure they are. Many people have more than one amplifier or
pair of speakers. But this still does not distract from the fact that if
one wants to listen to small ensemble music, then SET is quite
remarkable. I add here that I have no axe to grind, I do not own
an SET amp:-)


Cordially,

Iain

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Iain M Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

[clip]
More natural, and I know
natural because I record.


:-)

On a related note, given the extreme claims
made for human hearing (or audio perception in
its widest sense) has there been a reputable
documented case of a sonic change detectable by a human
under DBT that CANNOT be detected by measurement?

BugBear

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
I prefer SS for this and all other music listening. More natural, and I
know natural because I record.

Professionally?

Iain

In article , Arny Krueger
wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

Do they disagree with the idea that P-P can completely cancel even
order nonlinear distortion?

I may be wrong but I thought P-P intrinsically *only* produces even
ordered harmonics.

You do have it wrong. P-P intrinsically *only* produces odd ordered
harmonics.

Assuming perfectly matched devices in a perfectly balanced arrangement.

However any lack of perfect symmetry may mean that some orders are reduced,
but not removed entirely. Hence in reality you can expect a reduction, but
not a complete removal of the relevant components. Against this, the other
orders may be increased.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Iain M Churches
wrote:


Have you actually taken the trouble to listen to a good SET (for example
Andre's Kiss amplifier) playing Shostokovich ¨ String Quartets or a
small chamber ensemble? Quite remarkable:-) Your Krell, and most other
amplifiers, I am told, fade in comparison.

This seems to bring us 'full circle' on one issue since the proposal that
you would do some comparison tests developed in part from my suggestion
that the amp o/p impedance can interact with the speaker impedance,
sometimes altering the sound (frequency response). From the few reviews on
SE amps I have seen, they tend to have quite high o/p impedances with
figures I've see quoted being the order of 1 Ohm even midband at low
powers. :-)

Given that such amps also tend to have limited power and may therefore tend
to end up being use with 'high efficiency' loudspeakers, I wonder if such
speakers tend to have impedances that vary more with frequency than do
lower efficiency types...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
I prefer SS for this and all other music listening. More natural, and I
know natural because I record.

Professionally?

Iain



Example of Arny's recording using MXL 603's
http://www.pcavtech.com/test_data/heard_about0.mp3