Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

I'm thinking of buying some Quad ESLs and I've been reading a lot on the net
trying to decide what I want. The more I read the more I understand (I
think) but also the more confused I get.

I would appreciate some info from those who own or have long term knowledge
of these speakers.

I'm planning to use a pair of Quad IIs as the main amp (I do also have a
Quad 33/303 setup but for now I want to use the Quad IIs).

My main listening room is about 14x17 feet. Without re-arranging the room
(and probably moving the fireplace and/or the patio doors) the speakers will
have to fit near the back wall facing the patio doors. Problem: the door
into the room is at that end and so the speakers will need to be within 2
(maybe 3) feet of that back wall or I will have to climb over one to get
into the room..

Which ESLs would be best in this situation? One american review by someone
who really seemed to know his audio from his elbow (and his Claude Debussy
from his Miles Davis) says the ESL57s are happier nearer the back wall than
the ESL63s BUT another review by someone else who also seems to be very
knowledgeable says EXACTLY the opposite.

Advice please before I go completely mad and buy a pair of each.

Thanks,

John Smith.

Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

In article , John Smith
writes
I'm thinking of buying some Quad ESLs and I've been reading a lot on the net
trying to decide what I want. The more I read the more I understand (I
think) but also the more confused I get.

I would appreciate some info from those who own or have long term knowledge
of these speakers.

I'm planning to use a pair of Quad IIs as the main amp (I do also have a
Quad 33/303 setup but for now I want to use the Quad IIs).

My main listening room is about 14x17 feet. Without re-arranging the room
(and probably moving the fireplace and/or the patio doors) the speakers will
have to fit near the back wall facing the patio doors. Problem: the door
into the room is at that end and so the speakers will need to be within 2
(maybe 3) feet of that back wall or I will have to climb over one to get
into the room..

Which ESLs would be best in this situation? One american review by someone
who really seemed to know his audio from his elbow (and his Claude Debussy
from his Miles Davis) says the ESL57s are happier nearer the back wall than
the ESL63s BUT another review by someone else who also seems to be very
knowledgeable says EXACTLY the opposite.

Advice please before I go completely mad and buy a pair of each.

Thanks,

John Smith.



By a pair of each?, good idea!, then you can try both of them. I'd go
for the 63's However the only thing I'd question is the ability of the
303 or the 2's to drive them. You IMHO really need something a bit more
meaty to drive them. I've got an Audiolab 8000 power amp driving mine
and their fine with that. I reckon that the 57's have a lower output and
have a distinctive sweet spot for listening, but their mid range is very
good indeed.

You could perhaps make up some absorber frames filled with rockwool and
covered with fabric in order to minimise reflections from the rear of
the 63's as in fact they do radiate equally well to the rear, so your
point is a valid one.

I really reckon the only way to see you happy on this is to try both if
possible but having used the 57's and 63's I'd opt for the latter these
days.

However whichever you go for make sure they are performing to spec.
ESL's do suffer from leaking panels and are a bit like having a
substation in your living room especially when the weather is a tad
humid, so make sure they don't crack or hiss when in use and ask to see
any service history they have. QUAD service do still look after these
and I have had mine seen to there a few times over some 20 years or so
and have had new "stockings" and wood work etc, as well as a panel or
two, but they still are by far and away the most accurate neutral
speakers on the planet, so wise choice and enjoy the music which is
*exactly* what I do with mine:))..
--
Tony Sayer

Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of buying some Quad ESLs

First suggestion is go and take a good stiff belt of your favourite "poison"
and have a nice long lay down until the urge passes :-)


and I've been reading a lot on the net
trying to decide what I want. The more I read the more I understand (I
think) but also the more confused I get.

Now I went through all this a short while ago and actually got as far as
demoing some prospective buys. Your experience to date is not unlike mine.
There are some Quad fanatics in this world that will berate you into
believing these things are the definitive bench mark of speaker design.
Maybe, maybe not, as it comes down to personal preference and the type of
music you listen to. Example - one friend of mine (who actually had 3 sets
of ESL57s in various states of disrepair and only one set working) said to
me Quote: "I am only buying and listening to female vocals now." Somewhat
restrictive I think but then I noticed a trend with others as well so this
was not in isolation. Undeterred I still ventured on. After all these are
"The World's best speaker - right?" Yeah for female vocals with no bass and
limited SPL levels and *IF* you do try and "Arc them up" (now I know where
this term comes from) the panels arc out and "Hey Presto" more repair bills.


I would appreciate some info from those who own or have long term
knowledge
of these speakers.

First I will put my flame suit on (slip) IMHO these speakers are currently
more suited to the more technically adept out there that love tinkering with
gear and know how to repair these things. Apparently the answer is to stack
them (so twice the expense) and have dedicated rooms to put them in with
music that suits. I have read where they are used in HT rooms but being a
confirmed sceptic "I would like to see that." My main worry with these is
the maintainance side and I look as these more like a vintage car that needs
that "special care". Being in the UK you will have a lot more opportunity
finding repaireres and parts so that will make it easier.

Advice please before I go completely mad and buy a pair of each.

I don't think you were looking for what I just said but I thought you would
like to hear my experience. I would still consider having some just so I
could tinker and use them for those special occaisions where they can sound
rather good but for everday use - *No Way*.

Thanks,

John Smith.

BTW In all my research into these no one *seems* interested in the new Quad
988s (which are essentially a Quad 63) and they never come up in
conversation.

Now a plug for a local bloke http://www.eraudio.com.au/ I ended up talking
to this guy at his workshop and very nearly bought a set. At the price I
thought I couldn't go wrong. That was until I put on some Pink Floyd/Dire
Straights and told him they were just like Quads with no bass and he then
told me his speakers were not for me. Since then I have demoed (at home)
Martin Logan hybrids as well - still not impressed :-( BTW you will need
to see this part of his site as well
http://www.eraudio.com.au/Kits/kits.html

So my final conclusion is "ESL technology is not for me at this stage" but
they do have nice mids and silky highs. I ended up buying full range floor
standing cone speakers. Now if we could just get a nice ribbon tweeter
................. ;-)

This is a long way to get to what I really want to say to you. Are you
really, really sure you want some antiquated Quad speakers with their quirks
and fragile disposition? Did I mention they don't like dust or high
humidity either ;-)

BTW there will be many die hard Quad owners who will now refute all of this.
I am just relaying *my* experience and thoughts.

Regards TT (flame suit still on)

Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

"John Smith"

I would appreciate some info from those who own or have long term
knowledge
of these speakers.


** I owned a pair of ESL57s for 26 years - do I qualify ?


I'm planning to use a pair of Quad IIs as the main amp (I do also have a
Quad 33/303 setup but for now I want to use the Quad IIs).


** ESL57s are likely to be much cheaper than 63s - plus they handle less
power.

Be a more logical combination to use 57s with Quad II amps.


My main listening room is about 14x17 feet.


** That is a good size - but I do hope the floor is fully carpeted and
the room has lots of soft furniture, book shelves and heavy curtains to
deaden room reverberation.


Without re-arranging the room
(and probably moving the fireplace and/or the patio doors) the speakers
will
have to fit near the back wall facing the patio doors. Problem: the door
into the room is at that end and so the speakers will need to be within 2
(maybe 3) feet of that back wall or I will have to climb over one to get
into the room..


** ESL57s need to be mounted up on something sturdy - the three
supplied legs are a joke. I used two small tables about 15 inches high (the
sort with four, square section, steel legs) and bolted each '57 to one with
right angle brackets. A bit of packing allowed the speakers to be pointed
right at ear level when seated in the ideal listening position. The
speakers sound much better this way and are far less likely to topple over
( four legs good - three legs baaaaad ).

If you added small furniture castor wheels to such a support then moving
the 57s out of the way when not in use would be very easy. Remember - the
ideal listening distance is 7 to 10 feet, regardless of the back wall
proximity issue.

IME, keep the rear and side walls well away - by 6 feet if possible for
best results.



............. Phil

Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

TT wrote:

"The World's best speaker - right?" Yeah for female vocals with no bass and
limited SPL levels and *IF* you do try and "Arc them up" (now I know where
this term comes from) the panels arc out and "Hey Presto" more repair bills.


It's quite easy to prevent an ESL57 arcing these days.
Just use an amp rated at less than 75w into 8ohms,
or play a test CD with a 0dB signal on it and measure the
output voltage. Don't turn it up past 24v.
As for the bass - it's not like a typical boombox. It doesn't
play its own drone to accompany the melody but it is accurate
and surprisingly good. A subwoofer is always an option if you want more.
I don't think I've ever needed to give mine more than 10v, though I
wouldn't use them for a party.

--
Eiron.

Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

In article , John Smith
wrote:


My main listening room is about 14x17 feet. Without re-arranging the
room (and probably moving the fireplace and/or the patio doors) the
speakers will have to fit near the back wall facing the patio doors.
Problem: the door into the room is at that end and so the speakers will
need to be within 2 (maybe 3) feet of that back wall or I will have to
climb over one to get into the room..

If at all possible have the speakers further into the room. :-) I also
have a door in the 'hi fi room' in the corner behind one speaker. I just
have the speaker well into the room.


Which ESLs would be best in this situation?

The problem is that it will depend on your taste and the specific details
of the room acoustics, etc, etc. FWIW I preferred the 63's to the 57's, and
I now also like the 988's. All used in quite small rooms.

The condition of second-hand speakers will also be important. Particularly
for 57's which will be older, and had no protection circuitry, so may well
have been misused.

If you avoid early issues, the 63 is also a much easier load for the amp
than the 57.


One american review by
someone who really seemed to know his audio from his elbow (and his
Claude Debussy from his Miles Davis) says the ESL57s are happier nearer
the back wall than the ESL63s BUT another review by someone else who
also seems to be very knowledgeable says EXACTLY the opposite.

I'd say that both of them really need to be at least 3ft from the wall
behind, and preferrably more.

Advice please before I go completely mad and buy a pair of each.

My vote would be for 63's. But your taste/circumstances may not be the same
as mine.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

In article , Eiron
writes
TT wrote:

"The World's best speaker - right?" Yeah for female vocals with no bass and
limited SPL levels and *IF* you do try and "Arc them up" (now I know where
this term comes from) the panels arc out and "Hey Presto" more repair bills.


It's quite easy to prevent an ESL57 arcing these days.
Just use an amp rated at less than 75w into 8ohms,
or play a test CD with a 0dB signal on it and measure the
output voltage. Don't turn it up past 24v.
As for the bass - it's not like a typical boombox. It doesn't
play its own drone to accompany the melody but it is accurate
and surprisingly good. A subwoofer is always an option if you want more.
I don't think I've ever needed to give mine more than 10v, though I
wouldn't use them for a party.


Yes theres Bass, and Bass, and accurate low frequency reproduction;)....
--
Tony Sayer

Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

"Eiron"
TT wrote:

"The World's best speaker - right?" Yeah for female vocals with no bass
and
limited SPL levels and *IF* you do try and "Arc them up" (now I know
where
this term comes from) the panels arc out and "Hey Presto" more repair
bills.


It's quite easy to prevent an ESL57 arcing these days.
Just use an amp rated at less than 75w into 8ohms,


** A SS amp rated at 45 watts at 8 ohms is the safe limit - ie like the
303.

There is no such problem at all with the ESL 63 as it is electronically
protected.


or play a test CD with a 0dB signal on it and measure the
output voltage. Don't turn it up past 24v.


** Very bad advice - volume pots are not peak voltage limiters.




............... Phil

Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

In article ,
Phil Allison wrote:
It's quite easy to prevent an ESL57 arcing these days.
Just use an amp rated at less than 75w into 8ohms,


** A SS amp rated at 45 watts at 8 ohms is the safe limit - ie like
the 303.

The 303, however, had active both current and voltage limiting built into
the power supply.

I've read that decent conventional amps should be more like 25-30 watts
max.

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Quad ESLs - 57 or 63?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)"
Phil Allison

It's quite easy to prevent an ESL57 arcing these days.
Just use an amp rated at less than 75w into 8ohms,


** A SS amp rated at 45 watts at 8 ohms is the safe limit - ie like
the 303.


The 303, however, had active both current and voltage limiting built into
the power supply.


** The 303's PSU was voltage regulated - a common practice in 1968. The
supply rail was set at + 67 volts - there was no current limiting in the
PSU. So the maximum unloaded swing possible was about +/- 33 volts.

A 45 watt @ 8 ohms amplifier is rated to swing +/- 27 volts into that
oad - with an unregulated PSU that might typically increase to +/- 35
volts unloaded.

The highest impedance an ESL 57 reaches is 30 ohms at 100 Hz.

So 40 to 45 watts rated amp at 8 ohms is likely to be quite safe.

BTW:

I ran my ESL 57s with an 85 watt @ 8 ohms amp for 20 years and never arced
them.




........... Phil