4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

I've found a forthcoming power amplifier that I may be interested in, but
the only specs available at present are that it does 500W into 8 ohms
bridged for mono, and 230W per channel into 4 ohms.

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:42:39 GMT, "Wally" wrote:

I've found a forthcoming power amplifier that I may be interested in, but
the only specs available at present are that it does 500W into 8 ohms
bridged for mono, and 230W per channel into 4 ohms.

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?

Those numbers don't quite stack up, but you will get something like
120W per channel - perhaps a bit more.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
I've found a forthcoming power amplifier that I may be interested
in, but
the only specs available at present are that it does 500W into 8
ohms
bridged for mono, and 230W per channel into 4 ohms.

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk



It should be 125W per chan - and 230W into 4R indicates that it
propably has a good power supply as well. What it does not show
however is the conditions under which the power measurements were
taken, or the current driving capability of the outputs, so one
channel into 8R might actually do rather more than 125W.


--
Woody

harrogate2 at ntlworld dot com

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:42:39 GMT, "Wally" wrote:

I've found a forthcoming power amplifier that I may be interested in, but
the only specs available at present are that it does 500W into 8 ohms
bridged for mono, and 230W per channel into 4 ohms.

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?

Likely to be about 130 watts/channel into 8 ohms, but that alone
doesn't make it a good amplifier...................

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?

Likely to be about 130 watts/channel into 8 ohms, but that alone
doesn't make it a good amplifier...................

Didn't say it did. :-)

It's another Behringer jobbie. Although I have little to go on, other than
other people's opinions of their kit, and my experience of the active
crossover, I'm gravitating towards the idea that their stuff might just be
rather good.

No techy specs as yet, but here's the spiel from their web site (note that
it isn't available yet, so this is essentially marketing blurb)...

---------------------------------------------------
Professional 500-Watt Reference-Class Studio Power Amplifier

This ultra-linear power amplifier is the top choice for recording studios
and post-production work, yet its amazing price is just the beginning. You
get true audiophile-grade performance that delivers 2 x 230 Watts into 4
Ohms or 500 Watts into 8 Ohms bridged, with enough overhead to always keep
you on the safe side. The A500's advanced convection-type cooling system
guarantees stable, noise-free operation, while its servo-controlled design
can drive virtually all passive speakers. A precise level meter and clip
indicators are provided for accurate performance monitoring. Input
connections are laid out on balanced XLR, 1/4'' TRS and RCA connectors,
making sure you never run out of connectivity options. Plus, the speaker
outputs give you a choice between professional ''touch-proof'' binding posts
and 1/4'' TS connectors. To assure years of trouble-free operation, we only
use the ultra-reliable Toshiba® or Fairchild® high-power transistors that
are known for their rock-solid reputation. In addition to all these
features, an independent thermal overload protection system with LED
indicators for each channel automatically protects both your amplifier and
your speakers. Last but not least, we have relied on a tough high-current
toroidal transformer for absolute reliability and lowest noise interference
possible.

You and your clients deserve the very best in studio power amplification.
Get the A500 and it will be love at first sight: it is super affordable,
super effective and super flexible!
---------------------------------------------------


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Don Pearce wrote:

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?

Those numbers don't quite stack up, but you will get something like
120W per channel - perhaps a bit more.

Sounds fine to me.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

harrogate2 wrote:

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?

It should be 125W per chan - and 230W into 4R indicates that it
propably has a good power supply as well.

The blurb says it as a 'high current' toroidal transformer.


What it does not show
however is the conditions under which the power measurements were
taken, or the current driving capability of the outputs, so one
channel into 8R might actually do rather more than 125W.

I think that sort of power is probably well beyond what I need, which, I
suspect, is a good thing. I'll reserve judgement until the tech specs
appear, however.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:38:03 GMT, "Wally" wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?

Likely to be about 130 watts/channel into 8 ohms, but that alone
doesn't make it a good amplifier...................

Didn't say it did. :-)

It's another Behringer jobbie. Although I have little to go on, other than
other people's opinions of their kit, and my experience of the active
crossover, I'm gravitating towards the idea that their stuff might just be
rather good.

No techy specs as yet, but here's the spiel from their web site (note that
it isn't available yet, so this is essentially marketing blurb)...

An odd spec, since 230w/channel into 4 ohms should equate to 460 watts
bridged into 8 ohms, not 500 watts. The absence of a fan is a plus for
home use, but note that pro amps are often run at much higher average
levels than you'll use at home, so you really do need to check that
this unit sounds good at a watt or so, which is a typical home average
level. Pro amps, while they *can* sound good, are designed with cool
running and reliability as first priorities, not sheer sound quality.

Despite some 'knocking copy' you may have heard from the so-called
'subjectivists' on this subject, it's not actually true that *all*
amplifiers sound the same! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

In article ,
Wally wrote:
It's another Behringer jobbie. Although I have little to go on, other
than other people's opinions of their kit, and my experience of the
active crossover, I'm gravitating towards the idea that their stuff
might just be rather good.

It's reasonable value for money. Let's leave it at that. ;-)

--
*Why is it that doctors call what they do "practice"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

An odd spec, since 230w/channel into 4 ohms should equate to 460 watts
bridged into 8 ohms, not 500 watts.

Aye. Maybe they've bumped up the 8 ohm bridged performance to get a nice
round number for the model name.


The absence of a fan is a plus for
home use, but note that pro amps are often run at much higher average
levels than you'll use at home, so you really do need to check that
this unit sounds good at a watt or so, which is a typical home average
level.

Yup. I'll be interested to see what its s/n spec is.


Pro amps, while they *can* sound good, are designed with cool
running and reliability as first priorities, not sheer sound quality.

Maybe so, but how far downwards can the quality go, if they are to get away
with calling it a 'reference class studio monitor'? The other two power amps
in their range (more powerful) aren't described the same - I get the
impression that they're more like live sound reinforcement amps, so I doubt
if this new one is going to be a pishy, buttered-up PA blast-box.


Despite some 'knocking copy' you may have heard from the so-called
'subjectivists' on this subject, it's not actually true that *all*
amplifiers sound the same! :-)

I can happily take that stuff with a half pound tub of Saxa... :-)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's another Behringer jobbie. Although I have little to go on, other
than other people's opinions of their kit, and my experience of the
active crossover, I'm gravitating towards the idea that their stuff
might just be rather good.

It's reasonable value for money. Let's leave it at that. ;-)

Okay, the crunch question is this: do you think the amp in question will
sound better or worse than a Cyrus 2? And why?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

In article ,
Wally wrote:
Pro amps, while they *can* sound good, are designed with cool
running and reliability as first priorities, not sheer sound quality.

Maybe so, but how far downwards can the quality go, if they are to get
away with calling it a 'reference class studio monitor'?

'Reference' and 'studio' are often adspeak. Like 'pro'. A monitor is a
speaker, not an amp, in this context.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

In article ,
Wally wrote:
It's reasonable value for money. Let's leave it at that. ;-)

Okay, the crunch question is this: do you think the amp in question will
sound better or worse than a Cyrus 2? And why?

I dunno - you'd have to audition both. But my gut feeling is the Cyrus
would be better for domestic use.

--
*Just remember...if the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Wally wrote:
It's another Behringer jobbie. Although I have little to go on, other
than other people's opinions of their kit, and my experience of the
active crossover, I'm gravitating towards the idea that their stuff
might just be rather good.

There have been several threads in rec.audio.pro about Behringer
kit. Divides into those who like it and can't believe the price and
those who are prejudiced against it. The usual argument is that
they are charging premium prices for setting up their sound systems
for gigs and customers wouldn't approve of 'cheapo' kit! There
have been some notable conversions of the sceptical. Some say
that at first B kit was sometimes unreliable though it is generally
agreed that this is not longer true if it ever was. Apparently Uli
Behringer lurks on the audio ngs and takes note. To give you
a taste, have a look at the manual for the CX3400 XO on their site:
www.behringer.com. It's downloadable as an acrobat file. It's
an essay on setting up multiple speaker sound systems.

Early days but I'm impressed with the 3400 so far.

Peter Scott

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Maybe so, but how far downwards can the quality go, if they are to
get away with calling it a 'reference class studio monitor'?

'Reference' and 'studio' are often adspeak.

I can appreciate that, but they don't use those terms WRT to their other
amps, which are patently PA jobbies, the spec for the lower-powered one
being 260Wpc into 8 ohms, 0.1% THD, -100dB noise 20-20K, freq resp +/-1dB
20-20K, 3dB points at 5-50K. I think the message between the lines is that
the new one is better than the PA ones.


Like 'pro'. A monitor is a
speaker, not an amp, in this context.

My error - the official spielspeak is "Professional 500-Watt Reference-Class
Studio Power Amplifier".


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Peter Scott wrote:

Early days but I'm impressed with the 3400 so far.

Same here. I'm still at the stage of trawling through my CDs, hearing stuff
I didn't know was there. I honestly didn't expect to be doing that - I
thought I'd have a better sound at high volumes, but an overall loss in
fidelity. It may well be taking something away, but, if it is, then the
change in amp and passive xover configuration seems to offsetting that. So
far, the difference is a nett gain - I'm really glad you mentioned it in
that other thread!


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:42:39 GMT, "Wally" wrote:

I've found a forthcoming power amplifier that I may be interested
in, but the only specs available at present are that it does 500W
into 8 ohms bridged for mono, and 230W per channel into 4 ohms.

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?

Likely to be about 130 watts/channel into 8 ohms, but that alone
doesn't make it a good amplifier...


That presumes that the power amp's power supply and other components
result in a power amp that performs like an ideal constant-voltage
source.

An amp with poorer power supply regulation will produce less than
twice as much power at 4 ohms, than 8 ohms.

For example, some of the low-cost "plate" subwoofer power amps have
the same rated power output at both 4 and 8 ohms. Their power supply
regulation, etc. is obviously a lot less than ideal.

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Wally wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Maybe so, but how far downwards can the quality go, if they are to
get away with calling it a 'reference class studio monitor'?

'Reference' and 'studio' are often adspeak.

I can appreciate that, but they don't use those terms WRT to their
other amps, which are patently PA jobbies, the spec for the
lower-powered one being 260Wpc into 8 ohms, 0.1% THD, -100dB noise
20-20K, freq resp +/-1dB 20-20K, 3dB points at 5-50K. I think the
message between the lines is that the new one is better than the PA
ones.

The hidden agenda is that most PA amps have specs equal or better than
HiFi amps, if you back off their power ratings. IOW, take a 200 wpc
power amp with speced 1% THD, drop the power rating back to 160 wpc,
and watch the THD drop to 0.05% or better.

Case in point are my bench measurements on a QSC USA 400. At 130 wpc
it might have like 0.5% THD. Upon closer examination, the amp is
barely clipping. Back off the power output to say 100 wpc, the
clipping goes away, and the THD drops down to about 0.01%.

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

The hidden agenda is that most PA amps have specs equal or better than
HiFi amps, if you back off their power ratings. IOW, take a 200 wpc
power amp with speced 1% THD, drop the power rating back to 160 wpc,
and watch the THD drop to 0.05% or better.

The wording in the spec sheet is...

20 Hz - 20 kHz @ 0.1% THD, both channels driven:

8 ohms per channel: 260 W

4 ohms per channel: 400 W


Is there any reason to think that the quoted THD is at anything other than
the quoted output?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

In article ,
Peter Scott wrote:
There have been several threads in rec.audio.pro about Behringer
kit. Divides into those who like it and can't believe the price and
those who are prejudiced against it.

I must admit my views are based on their compressor/limiters. Which a
'fan' installed in a facility I sometimes work in. And I dislike them
intensely - I bring in my 30 year old Neves which work rather better. Of
course they cost many many times the price.

--
*Why do overlook and oversee mean opposite things? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Wally wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:

The hidden agenda is that most PA amps have specs equal or better
than HiFi amps, if you back off their power ratings. IOW, take a
200
wpc power amp with speced 1% THD, drop the power rating back to 160
wpc, and watch the THD drop to 0.05% or better.

The wording in the spec sheet is...

20 Hz - 20 kHz @ 0.1% THD, both channels driven:

8 ohms per channel: 260 W

4 ohms per channel: 400 W

Is there any reason to think that the quoted THD is at anything
other
than the quoted output?

Sure, about 45 years of experience measuring power amps.

Good modern power amps have less distortion at lower levels than at
higher levels.

They have lower distortion when they aren't clipping then when they
are clipping.

Very few modern good power amps have as much as 0.1% THD, except when
they are clipping.

If I took the specs above literally, I'd say that they were taken with
the amp clipping a bit. OTOH, I might also strongly suspect that they
are

(1) Reasonably conservative.
(2) Designed by the Behringer marketing department, *NOT* the
engineering department.

Just guessing, but 400 watt @ 4 ohms @ 20 Hz - 20 kHz @ 0.1% THD, both
channels driven was probably the primary design spec for the amp.
Better samples of the amp probably will meet that spec at some higher
power level, maybe 410-420 watts. Better samples of the amp probably
actually do 400 wpc over 20-20KHz with 0.05% or less THD, and may have
less than 0.01% THD at 1 KHz. Back the power off to 350 watts, and
most distortion specs will drop below 0.01%.

And like I said before, pick up a good so-called PA amp - a QSC or a
Crown for example, derate it a bit, and get ready to have your socks
blown off when you take your measurements.

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
harrogate2 wrote:

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?

It should be 125W per chan - and 230W into 4R indicates that it
propably has a good power supply as well.

The blurb says it as a 'high current' toroidal transformer.

**A meaningless specification. What you SHOULD be told is that the
transformer IS (say) 800VA @ 5% regulation, or something similar.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:42:39 GMT, "Wally" wrote:

I've found a forthcoming power amplifier that I may be interested
in, but the only specs available at present are that it does 500W
into 8 ohms bridged for mono, and 230W per channel into 4 ohms.

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?

Likely to be about 130 watts/channel into 8 ohms, but that alone
doesn't make it a good amplifier...


That presumes that the power amp's power supply and other components
result in a power amp that performs like an ideal constant-voltage
source.

An amp with poorer power supply regulation will produce less than
twice as much power at 4 ohms, than 8 ohms.

For example, some of the low-cost "plate" subwoofer power amps have
the same rated power output at both 4 and 8 ohms. Their power supply
regulation, etc. is obviously a lot less than ideal.



Curiously I built a dual mono power MOSFET amp on the Hitachi design
using PCB's from Ambit (remember them?) and built and fitted separate
regulated power supplies designed by the late John Lindsey-Hood on
PCBs from Hart Electronics.

Driven into 8R and measuring the output voltage barely below clipping
(our power meter was only 50W rated) I calculated 111.5W rms. Setting
the load to 4R gave 223W rms.

I rest my case (in this instance anyway!) I will say one thing
though - it could shake windows with organ pedal notes into a pair of
Dr. Arthur Bailey Transmission Lines like nowt I've heard before or
since. Pity it developed a d.c. offset problem that I could not bottom
and thus went out of service, as did the speakers under SWMBO's
orders!


--
Woody

harrogate2 at ntlworld dot com

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:

The blurb says it as a 'high current' toroidal transformer.

**A meaningless specification. What you SHOULD be told is that the
transformer IS (say) 800VA @ 5% regulation, or something similar.

It's not a specification, it's part of the blurb. The amp hasn't come out
yet, and the spec hasn't been published.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

"Wally" wrote in message
k...
Trevor Wilson wrote:

The blurb says it as a 'high current' toroidal transformer.

**A meaningless specification. What you SHOULD be told is that the
transformer IS (say) 800VA @ 5% regulation, or something similar.

It's not a specification, it's part of the blurb. The amp hasn't come out
yet, and the spec hasn't been published.

**Then it's not an amp at all, is it?

In computer parlance, it is vapourware.

Points:

*No one knows if the amp will exist.
*No one knows if the amp will actually meet it's claimed specifications.
*No one knows if it will demonstrate a 98% failure rate, within the first 3
months. And, before you get your knickers in a twist, I am a service agent
for several, large, multinational audio companies. One of those (highly
respected) companies, when asked by me, provided some data which showed a
67% failure rate of one of their products (within the warranty period)! That
company has a good deal more respect within the audio industry than
Behringer does, BTW.
*I am more than passingly familiar with Alesis amplifiers. I am told that
Alesis amps are identical to Behringer products. Alesis amps are cheap,
unable to meet their rated power output without external cooling and
unreliable. Be aware that I am operating under the assumption that what I
was told is correct.
*Behringer amps are not highly regarded in the professional music industry
(I know: I spoke with a few Behringer retailers yesterday, about a Behringer
crossover, I am purchasing. We also discussed mixers and amps.). Apparently,
their reliability is somewhat below average. Apparently, their mixers and
crossovers are pretty decent.
*There is no such thing as a free lunch.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Then it's not an amp at all, is it?
In computer parlance, it is vapourware.

So? I'm obviously considering it as a possible option on the assumption that
it does actually become a reality. The fact that it hasn't been released yet
doesn't devalue that consideration.


*No one knows if the amp will exist.

So?


*No one knows if the amp will actually meet it's claimed
specifications.

So?


*No one knows if it will demonstrate a 98% failure rate, within the
first 3 months.

So?


And, before you get your knickers in a twist, I am a
service agent for several, large, multinational audio companies. One
of those (highly respected) companies, when asked by me, provided
some data which showed a 67% failure rate of one of their products
(within the warranty period)!

So?


That company has a good deal more
respect within the audio industry than Behringer does, BTW.

So?


*I am more than passingly familiar with Alesis amplifiers. I am told
that Alesis amps are identical to Behringer products. Alesis amps are
cheap, unable to meet their rated power output without external
cooling and unreliable.

The other two Behringer amps have built in fans. Do the Alessis amps you
refer to have fans?


Be aware that I am operating under the
assumption that what I was told is correct.

Quite.


*Behringer amps are not highly regarded in the professional music
industry (I know: I spoke with a few Behringer retailers yesterday,
about a Behringer crossover, I am purchasing. We also discussed
mixers and amps.). Apparently, their reliability is somewhat below
average. Apparently, their mixers and crossovers are pretty decent.

Noted. Which amps?


*There is no such thing as a free lunch.

But there is such a thing as a bargain.



--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

"Wally" wrote in message
k...
Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Then it's not an amp at all, is it?
In computer parlance, it is vapourware.

So? I'm obviously considering it as a possible option on the assumption
that
it does actually become a reality. The fact that it hasn't been released
yet
doesn't devalue that consideration.

**Are you serious? What part of the word; "unavailable" requires
explanation?



*No one knows if the amp will exist.

So?

**Are you serious?



*No one knows if the amp will actually meet it's claimed
specifications.

So?

**Are you serious?



*No one knows if it will demonstrate a 98% failure rate, within the
first 3 months.

So?

**Are you serious?



And, before you get your knickers in a twist, I am a
service agent for several, large, multinational audio companies. One
of those (highly respected) companies, when asked by me, provided
some data which showed a 67% failure rate of one of their products
(within the warranty period)!

So?

**Are you serious?



That company has a good deal more
respect within the audio industry than Behringer does, BTW.

So?

**Are you serious?



*I am more than passingly familiar with Alesis amplifiers. I am told
that Alesis amps are identical to Behringer products. Alesis amps are
cheap, unable to meet their rated power output without external
cooling and unreliable.

The other two Behringer amps have built in fans. Do the Alessis amps you
refer to have fans?

**No.



Be aware that I am operating under the
assumption that what I was told is correct.

Quite.


*Behringer amps are not highly regarded in the professional music
industry (I know: I spoke with a few Behringer retailers yesterday,
about a Behringer crossover, I am purchasing. We also discussed
mixers and amps.). Apparently, their reliability is somewhat below
average. Apparently, their mixers and crossovers are pretty decent.

Noted. Which amps?

**Behringer amps.



*There is no such thing as a free lunch.

But there is such a thing as a bargain.

**Indeed. However, when it is 'vapourware' it is.......nothing.

AFTER the amp has hit the market and AFTER the amp has been independently
tested and AFTER the amp has been shown to be reliable, it may be worthy of
consideration. Before those facts are known, it is pointless bothering with.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

"Wally" wrote in message
. ..
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's another Behringer jobbie. Although I have little to go on, other
than other people's opinions of their kit, and my experience of the
active crossover, I'm gravitating towards the idea that their stuff
might just be rather good.

It's reasonable value for money. Let's leave it at that. ;-)

Okay, the crunch question is this: do you think the amp in question will
sound better or worse than a Cyrus 2? And why?

**No brainer. The Cyrus will sound MUCH better. The Cyrus is a real product.
The Behringer is not. It is a non-existent amplifier. It cannot amplify
anything.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:

**No brainer. The Cyrus will sound MUCH better. The Cyrus is a real
product. The Behringer is not. It is a non-existent amplifier. It
cannot amplify anything.

No, Trevor, the Cyrus *sounds* - present tense - much better. You have no
idea what will or will not be.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

In article ,
Wally wrote:
*There is no such thing as a free lunch.

But there is such a thing as a bargain.

Yes. Behringer fall into the 'how do they do it for the money' camp. Bit
like Chinese cordless drills. But with both don't compare in performance
to the 'real' thing. Which tends to be rather a large factor in Hi-Fi.

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:

**Are you serious? What part of the word; "unavailable" requires
explanation?

What part of the thrust of my original post...

------------------------------------------
I've found a forthcoming power amplifier that I may be interested in, but
the only specs available at present are that it does 500W into 8 ohms
bridged for mono, and 230W per channel into 4 ohms.

What would be its likely stereo output into 8 ohms?
------------------------------------------

....did you neglect to consider when you decided to dish out a million and
one warnings about stuff that has nothing specific to do with the amplifier
in question?


But there is such a thing as a bargain.

**Indeed. However, when it is 'vapourware' it is.......nothing.

AFTER the amp has hit the market and AFTER the amp has been
independently tested and AFTER the amp has been shown to be reliable,
it may be worthy of consideration. Before those facts are known, it
is pointless bothering with.

If, at the start of the second quarter of 2005, I want to give a product
which has been announced as due to be released in the second quarter of 2005
my consideration, then I am entirely at liberty to do so. The fact that you
think that nothing should be done until it has not only arrived, but been
debugged by the early adopters, is irrelevant to my purpose in starting this
thread.


The Alesis RA range of amps look somewhat similar to the forthcoming amp
from Behringer - same basic configuration, although the RA500 is 3U high
instead of the 2U shown on Behringer's web site. Are they the ones you're
referring to?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

But there is such a thing as a bargain.

Yes. Behringer fall into the 'how do they do it for the money' camp.
Bit like Chinese cordless drills.

More like Nad, perhaps.


But with both don't compare in
performance to the 'real' thing. Which tends to be rather a large
factor in Hi-Fi.

All I can say is that I'm impressed with what has happened by adding the
active crossover. Limited though it may be, my one and only experience of
their kit has been good, and I'm tempted to try some more of it. Nobody has
stepped up and cited a specific item from their range that's indubitable
crap, never mind explained why. I'm not saying the criticisms that have
appeared are not without foundation, but they are rather generalised.
Indeed, the only solid *fact* that I have available is that the crossover
does the business, for me, and better than expected.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Wally wrote:
And like I said before, pick up a good so-called PA amp - a QSC or a
Crown for example, derate it a bit, and get ready to have your socks
blown off when you take your measurements.


Certainly my experience so far. Early days in my experimenting, but when
I started to use an InterM R500 as the power amp on my Mordaunts
in a large room, I noticed an immediate improvement in top and depth of
bass. I was going to buy new speakers and now am not. I think that
headroom is one of the key steps to quality of sound.

Peter Scott

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

In article ,
Wally wrote:
But there is such a thing as a bargain.

Yes. Behringer fall into the 'how do they do it for the money' camp.
Bit like Chinese cordless drills.

More like Nad, perhaps.

No, NAD produce fine sounding gear with no frills at a reasonable price.
My experience of Behringer is that they produce extremely flash looking
gear with all the 'functions' - needed or not - without actually worrying
so much about the actual sound quality, which will be adequate, but no
more. In other words, it's designed to appeal to the mass market, rather
than giving exceptional value to the discerning that NAD usually do.

Of course, YMMV.


But with both don't compare in
performance to the 'real' thing. Which tends to be rather a large
factor in Hi-Fi.

All I can say is that I'm impressed with what has happened by adding the
active crossover. Limited though it may be, my one and only experience
of their kit has been good, and I'm tempted to try some more of it.
Nobody has stepped up and cited a specific item from their range that's
indubitable crap, never mind explained why. I'm not saying the
criticisms that have appeared are not without foundation, but they are
rather generalised. Indeed, the only solid *fact* that I have available
is that the crossover does the business, for me, and better than
expected.

An active crossover might well cure problems of a room/speaker
combination, etc, that are far more severe than the minor differences
between well and adequately designed electronics.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

No, NAD produce fine sounding gear with no frills at a reasonable
price. My experience of Behringer is that they produce extremely
flash looking gear with all the 'functions' - needed or not - without
actually worrying so much about the actual sound quality, which will
be adequate, but no more. In other words, it's designed to appeal to
the mass market, rather than giving exceptional value to the
discerning that NAD usually do.

How much of their gear have you actually used? Which bits, specifically?


An active crossover might well cure problems of a room/speaker
combination, etc, that are far more severe than the minor differences
between well and adequately designed electronics.

I'm glad I didn't buy an *expensive* active crossover, then - the minor
differences between that and the one I did buy would have been lost in the
overall change to the system sound that came about by dint of putting *an*
active crossover into it.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com/FiatPandaRally/index.htm
www.wally.myby.co.uk

4 ohm watts and 8 ohm watts
 

In article ,
Wally wrote:
No, NAD produce fine sounding gear with no frills at a reasonable
price. My experience of Behringer is that they produce extremely
flash looking gear with all the 'functions' - needed or not - without
actually worrying so much about the actual sound quality, which will
be adequate, but no more. In other words, it's designed to appeal to
the mass market, rather than giving exceptional value to the
discerning that NAD usually do.

How much of their gear have you actually used? Which bits, specifically?

A couple of mixers and compressor /limiters. Ok and good value for money,
but...

--
*I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.