MP3... not actually all that bad!
 

Ok, this one's going to get the purists turning purple, but here goes...

Have just plugged my now-retired Arcam Black Box 50 into the PC
(Creative MP3 Blaster USB external sound card set to digital only mode,
hence no resampling) and compared between MP3, CDs played straight
through the internal DAC of a Technics SL-PG390 and CDs played through
the BB50.

MP3 played through the Black Box sounds considerably better than
straight through the Technics player. Using the CD player as a transport
results in a barely noticeable increase in detail through the current
setup (Chord Cobra II interconnects, Technics SU-VX500 amp on power-amp
direct input, Eltax Symphony 6 speakers, bi-wired with Gale XL-189
cable). So I'm guessing that a lot of the "MP3 sounds crap" opinions are
based on the generally dire analogue sections on most PC sound cards.

MP3s encoded at 160-320 VBR with latest version of LAME, on anal quality
settings.

At some point I'm going to plug the laptop into the Arcam AVR-250
upstairs (its internal DAC is noticably better than the BB50, probably
due to several years advance in technology) and have a listen through
that (Mordaunt-Short Avant 908/905C speakers, Audio Innovations Silver
bi-wire cable) and see how it sounds compared to CD on that system.

And deviating slightly, I've also noticed on the main system (the one
with the AVR-250) that the DVD player sounds better than the CD player
when used as a transport (both using Toslink at present until I get
around to making up a 75ohm MIL-spec digital interconnect). I'm guessing
this is due to the jitter reduction in the DVD player (Toshiba SD-530),
but still quite surprising given the fairly dire performance of DVD
players on CDs in general. Anyone have any comments?

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

MP3... not actually all that bad!
 

"Glenn Richards" wrote in message
...
Ok, this one's going to get the purists turning purple, but here goes...

Have just plugged my now-retired Arcam Black Box 50 into the PC (Creative
MP3 Blaster USB external sound card set to digital only mode, hence no
resampling) and compared between MP3, CDs played straight through the
internal DAC of a Technics SL-PG390 and CDs played through the BB50.

MP3 played through the Black Box sounds considerably better than straight
through the Technics player. Using the CD player as a transport results in
a barely noticeable increase in detail through the current setup (Chord
Cobra II interconnects, Technics SU-VX500 amp on power-amp direct input,
Eltax Symphony 6 speakers, bi-wired with Gale XL-189 cable). So I'm
guessing that a lot of the "MP3 sounds crap" opinions are based on the
generally dire analogue sections on most PC sound cards.

MP3s encoded at 160-320 VBR with latest version of LAME, on anal quality
settings.

MP3's are pretty good sounding. Whilst you're experimenting I suggest
encoding to OGG. At the same bitrate of your MP3's they'll sound better.

I spent some time with various MP3 & OGG encodes, CBR/VBR, minimum, average,
maximum etc- and found OGG to sound considerbly better even with £30 cheap,
and blindingly obvious on the Hi-Fi swapping between CD, MP3 & OGG (lossy
same filesize)

Compare a 128kps OGG to 165kps MP3.


At some point I'm going to plug the laptop into the Arcam AVR-250 upstairs
(its internal DAC is noticably better than the BB50, probably due to
several years advance in technology) and have a listen through that
(Mordaunt-Short Avant 908/905C speakers, Audio Innovations Silver bi-wire
cable) and see how it sounds compared to CD on that system.

And deviating slightly, I've also noticed on the main system (the one with
the AVR-250) that the DVD player sounds better than the CD player when
used as a transport (both using Toslink at present until I get around to
making up a 75ohm MIL-spec digital interconnect). I'm guessing this is due
to the jitter reduction in the DVD player (Toshiba SD-530), but still
quite surprising given the fairly dire performance of DVD players on CDs
in general. Anyone have any comments?

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

MP3... not actually all that bad!
 

Nath wrote:

MP3's are pretty good sounding. Whilst you're experimenting I suggest
encoding to OGG. At the same bitrate of your MP3's they'll sound
better.

They do, but my primary method of playing MP3s away from the PC is a
Turtle Beach Audiotron. Which plays MP3, WMA and WAV. Not OGG, sadly.

In order to play OGGs I'd have to start messing about on the server with
PortalFS to decode on-the-fly to WAV and stream it over the network. And
if I'm going to start messing about like that then I'll be using FLAC. ;-)

With a 300GB disk about to go into the media server, storage isn't an issue.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

MP3... not actually all that bad!
 

In article , Glenn Richards
wrote:


And deviating slightly, I've also noticed on the main system (the one
with the AVR-250) that the DVD player sounds better than the CD player
when used as a transport (both using Toslink at present until I get
around to making up a 75ohm MIL-spec digital interconnect). I'm guessing
this is due to the jitter reduction in the DVD player (Toshiba SD-530),
but still quite surprising given the fairly dire performance of DVD
players on CDs in general. Anyone have any comments?

Not a comment as such, just my own experience.

I use the same external DAC for audio with both my Philips DVD
recorder/player and the CD player in my living room. The DAC is a Meridian
263. The only audible difference I notice when playing a CD is that the DVD
player tends to make more 'mechanical' noise at times - although I hope
I've now fixed this as I popped the lid on the DVD recorder yesterday and
applied a load of 'deadsheet' damping material. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

MP3... not actually all that bad!
 

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 22:38:12 +0100, Glenn Richards
wrote:

Ok, this one's going to get the purists turning purple, but here goes...

Have just plugged my now-retired Arcam Black Box 50 into the PC
(Creative MP3 Blaster USB external sound card set to digital only mode,
hence no resampling) and compared between MP3, CDs played straight
through the internal DAC of a Technics SL-PG390 and CDs played through
the BB50.

MP3 played through the Black Box sounds considerably better than
straight through the Technics player. Using the CD player as a transport
results in a barely noticeable increase in detail through the current
setup (Chord Cobra II interconnects, Technics SU-VX500 amp on power-amp
direct input, Eltax Symphony 6 speakers, bi-wired with Gale XL-189
cable). So I'm guessing that a lot of the "MP3 sounds crap" opinions are
based on the generally dire analogue sections on most PC sound cards.

The pcs foremost task is to treat digital information, anything analog would be an
added expense as the PC was never a platform which was at the forefront of making
high quality sound available to the users of the computer. The invention of the IBM
PC as we know it, happened many years before the PC actually was given the ability to
make sounds beyond a simple beep.

MP3s encoded at 160-320 VBR with latest version of LAME, on anal quality
settings.

Hehehe, I take it the "anal quality setting" is a setting purists use ;)

At some point I'm going to plug the laptop into the Arcam AVR-250
upstairs (its internal DAC is noticably better than the BB50, probably
due to several years advance in technology) and have a listen through
that (Mordaunt-Short Avant 908/905C speakers, Audio Innovations Silver
bi-wire cable) and see how it sounds compared to CD on that system.

Also if you have a cdrom attached to sound board turn the iniput for it way down low
or turn it off better yet disconnect the cable between the drive and the soundboard,
wether the soundboard is located on a pci card or embedded on the motherboard.
Indeed turn off any other device which you are not listening to such as MIDI, mike,
AUX and so on.
The sound through the setup will sound freer when the noise added by the devices you
are not listening to is removed.

And deviating slightly, I've also noticed on the main system (the one
with the AVR-250) that the DVD player sounds better than the CD player
when used as a transport (both using Toslink at present until I get
around to making up a 75ohm MIL-spec digital interconnect). I'm guessing
this is due to the jitter reduction in the DVD player (Toshiba SD-530),
but still quite surprising given the fairly dire performance of DVD
players on CDs in general. Anyone have any comments?

Differences may occur between generations of media and theDVD may have been speced to
be part of a better system, not just a low-end system for OEMs. A manufacturer will
try to meet the requirements of the OEM manufacturers and there is not sense in
adding quality analog sound for cdroms which will end up desktops in a large company,
the only ones to ever insert a cd might just the computer division of the company,
and that cd may just be for drivers or a system cd, ghost image or whatever.

If some department wants a pc t edit audio for production use they will order a
mahcine to do that. and the one who has the contract to make computers for them will
have to go for gear that goes well together and is good for what the task the pc will
solve.
For private computer buyers jungle laws apply.
You will find lots of cheap computers for sale, but the essential components of such
are the CPU and memory, everything else can be made cheaper by umbing down the device
or using the previous generation, which now will be cheaper to use as the development
of them has been made back several times over.

It is not uncommon to see a computer system with a motherboard with space for 1 AGP
and 4 PCI slots but there is only one AGP and one PCI socket soldered onto it.
This motherboard would be used in a minimalistic system where the demand for upgrade
is not major.
Most companies would not require more than one PCI slot for upgrades for 99% of the
pcs the buy. The remaining pcs are for projects, special use such as backwards
compatibility with ISA or what not, servers or indeed computers set up for general
use, such as scanner, multiple faxes et cetera.

It is always the needs of the companies that dicates when new technology becomes
available and the private sector will buy it if it better than before and slots into
what they have already or if they can afford a high-end system right away.

It is no more different than making a car for the top 10% of the customers. Where
after the model is introduced the maker is investigating where to cut production
costs to come up with a cheaper model for sale to the large 70% amount of customers
who wants a cheaper alternative. The remaining 20% are pure priceshoppers who still
dream of a larger car, bigger luggage compartment and some of the many add-ons and so
on after they bought the car.

It ought to be illegal to buy a 4wd for commuting and dropping off/picking up
children in daycare/school. But some do.

Mikkel

MP3... not actually all that bad!
 

MP3 recordings can provide unusually realistic playback, if made the
right way. You wouldn't believe the degree of "you are there" feeling
you'd get from playing a free download --- unless you actually visit a
certain website and do it. The site address, and an explanation of the
science behind all this, are in an article that just go printed (August
2005) in a music and equipment review magazine, "The Audiophile Voice,"
Vol. 11, Number 1. (If you subscribe, ask to start with that issue,
that has Janis Joplin on the cover.) Info available at

http://audiophilevoice.com/

Generally, the secret of super-realism seems to be that some recordings
(like those downloadable from the URL in the article) happened to be
close-miked and then MP3-encoded at 160 kbps. However, you could
probably do some of this yourself, if you have decent equipment and
carefully read the article. (Also, the reviewers in the "T.A.V."
magazine often describe other super-realistic recordings, available on
specific CDs, when they use them to test loudspeakers, etc.)