'Tant pis' indeed....
 

Anybody catch the Mahler just now?

I don't know if my ears are being poisoned by the fullrange speakers I'm
using atm, but the sound off the telly (external amp Sony, Ruark speakers)
was almost unlistenable with the Mahler 1 on tonight's Prom. Are we being
compressed again (digital channel)?

Also the tempo - was it me (I've only got about a dozen different Mahler
1s...) or was it a bit swift/nippy throughout? At 55 minutes duration (which
I saw somewhere - maybe on the website) it certainly isn't *extended* and, I
have to say, it sounded like it was just the one long, hurried movement to
me....

It should have been a good listen, it wasn't - I never have too great
expectations of 'youth orchestras' (especially ones which are a bit thin on
the ground) but this performance pretty soon proved to be a 'mainly visual'
experience....

'Tant pis' indeed....!!

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Anybody catch the Mahler just now?
Viewed (on analog) but didn't record.

I don't know if my ears are being poisoned by the fullrange speakers I'm
using atm, but the sound off the telly (external amp Sony, Ruark speakers)
was almost unlistenable with the Mahler 1 on tonight's Prom. Are we being
compressed again (digital channel)?

Also the tempo - was it me (I've only got about a dozen different Mahler

They had to hurry so as to allow "Coast" to start on time?

We thought the sound was OK, but then we were comparing it with what we
endured last night at Kenwood, where the sound was dire.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Anybody catch the Mahler just now?
Viewed (on analog) but didn't record.

I don't know if my ears are being poisoned by the fullrange speakers I'm
using atm, but the sound off the telly (external amp Sony, Ruark
speakers)
was almost unlistenable with the Mahler 1 on tonight's Prom. Are we being
compressed again (digital channel)?

Also the tempo - was it me (I've only got about a dozen different Mahler

They had to hurry so as to allow "Coast" to start on time?

We thought the sound was OK, but then we were comparing it with what we
endured last night at Kenwood, where the sound was dire.


****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic....

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...

We thought the sound was OK, but then we were comparing it with what we
endured last night at Kenwood, where the sound was dire.

****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic....

I wonder if one of my fellow residents, Marshall, in Milton Keynes is
responsible? In a recent local TV review of his company and career, I
remember people being interviewed saying that they liked the "thicker" sound
of his amplifiers. I think that was referring to amplifying electric
guitars, but it now seems to be everywhere as the norm. (Didn't see any
labels at Kenwood so don't know whose gear it was, but it certainly didn't
do anything for the music. Makes the discussions about MP3 versus ATRAC
compression seem somewhat pointless.)
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

Anybody catch the Mahler just now?

Yes. Via DTTV.

I don't know if my ears are being poisoned by the fullrange speakers I'm
using atm, but the sound off the telly (external amp Sony, Ruark
speakers) was almost unlistenable with the Mahler 1 on tonight's Prom.
Are we being compressed again (digital channel)?

Well, my wife and thought it was the best performance of Mahler we'd ever
heard. :-) I don't usually rate Mahler very highly, but thorougly enjoyed
this. The sound seemed good overall to me, albiet with a fair bit of level
compression as tends to be common on TV.

Also the tempo - was it me (I've only got about a dozen different Mahler
1s...) or was it a bit swift/nippy throughout? At 55 minutes duration
(which I saw somewhere - maybe on the website) it certainly isn't
*extended* and, I have to say, it sounded like it was just the one
long, hurried movement to me....

YMMV. :-) Maybe you like all the performance we dislike. :-)

In general, I find that Mahler tends to 'wander around' and I get bored
listening. Here I was able to follow the 'thread' of the music and the
phrasing/playing seemed to bring out the contrasts neatly without losing
the 'line'. Hence my wife and I sat and stayed involved all the way through
the symphony. TBH I wasn't expecting this, so was pleasantly surprised.

It should have been a good listen, it wasn't - I never have too great
expectations of 'youth orchestras' (especially ones which are a bit thin
on the ground) but this performance pretty soon proved to be a 'mainly
visual' experience....

Quite a different reaction here. Looking forwards to re-enjoying the
recording I made on DVD. Also planning to record the R3 FM rebroadcast onto
CD for comparison purposes.

You say "sound off the telly". FWIW I fed the sound as s/pdif from my DTTV
RX to a meridian dac, and then to the rest of the audio. Experiments show
that the analogue outputs from out TV sound much poorer than this.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

Anybody catch the Mahler just now?

I don't know if my ears are being poisoned by the fullrange speakers I'm
using atm, but the sound off the telly (external amp Sony, Ruark speakers)
was almost unlistenable with the Mahler 1 on tonight's Prom. Are we being
compressed again (digital channel)?
:

I agree. From a Sony Digibox the BBC 4 sound was just plain distorted -
clearly something wrong. It was especially obvious whenever there was an
enthusiastic thwack on the bass drum; the system audibly ducked, and
never cleaned up even during more even passages.

I wish we could return to the good old simulcast days when you could
substitute R3 sound, but the asynchronism between pictures and sound -
anything from seconds to minutes - now rules that out.

Patrick Wallace
__________________________________________________ ________________________

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article , Malcolm Stewart
writes
"Keith G" wrote in message
m...

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...

We thought the sound was OK, but then we were comparing it with what we
endured last night at Kenwood, where the sound was dire.

****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic....

I wonder if one of my fellow residents, Marshall, in Milton Keynes is
responsible? In a recent local TV review of his company and career, I
remember people being interviewed saying that they liked the "thicker" sound
of his amplifiers. I think that was referring to amplifying electric
guitars, but it now seems to be everywhere as the norm. (Didn't see any
labels at Kenwood so don't know whose gear it was, but it certainly didn't
do anything for the music. Makes the discussions about MP3 versus ATRAC
compression seem somewhat pointless.)

Yes but isn't the amp part of the sound of the guitar?....
--
Tony Sayer

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

Yes but isn't the amp part of the sound of the guitar?....
--
Tony Sayer

I guess it is, but it's certainly not normally the sound of a classical
orchestra playing opera excerpts.
I suppose the fabric "tent" behind the orchestra reflects so little of the
orchestra's sound that some amplification is needed.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article ,
Pat Wallace wrote:
I agree. From a Sony Digibox the BBC 4 sound was just plain distorted -
clearly something wrong. It was especially obvious whenever there was an
enthusiastic thwack on the bass drum; the system audibly ducked, and
never cleaned up even during more even passages.

There was some *very* enthusistic whacking of both tympani and bass drum
on the first half, and no distortion on BBC2 via DTTV. And my STB is
routed through my TV before going to my amp.

As far as I know, BBC4 takes a straight R3 audio feed for the music part
and just adds its own presenters.

By the number of spot mics I'd say BBC2 produced their own balance.

--
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

Anybody catch the Mahler just now?

Yes. Via DTTV.

I don't know if my ears are being poisoned by the fullrange speakers I'm
using atm, but the sound off the telly (external amp Sony, Ruark
speakers) was almost unlistenable with the Mahler 1 on tonight's Prom.
Are we being compressed again (digital channel)?

Well, my wife and thought it was the best performance of Mahler we'd ever
heard. :-) I don't usually rate Mahler very highly, but thorougly
enjoyed
this.


OK, that's good - TBH, I thought it might be the worst I'd ever heard, but
it's different strokes for different folks. I'm glad you both enjoyed it. If
nothing else, it was well up to par for for one of DB's typically unsubtle
'musical olive-branch' exercises!


The sound seemed good overall to me, albiet with a fair bit of level
compression as tends to be common on TV.

Also the tempo - was it me (I've only got about a dozen different Mahler
1s...) or was it a bit swift/nippy throughout? At 55 minutes duration
(which I saw somewhere - maybe on the website) it certainly isn't
*extended* and, I have to say, it sounded like it was just the one
long, hurried movement to me....

YMMV. :-) Maybe you like all the performance we dislike. :-)

In general, I find that Mahler tends to 'wander around'


Ging heut morgan ubers feld? :-)


and I get bored
listening. Here I was able to follow the 'thread' of the music and the
phrasing/playing seemed to bring out the contrasts neatly without losing
the 'line'. Hence my wife and I sat and stayed involved all the way
through
the symphony. TBH I wasn't expecting this, so was pleasantly surprised.


Well, I thought it was the 'Eurovision verson' segued into one long
undulating, tune with very limited dynamics (not the band's fault - it, was
so small) and none of the real drama (the anticipation, thunderous
crescendos/ensuing tranquility) of the *real thing*. I know Barenboim's
association with Mahler goes back half a century when, as pianist, he was
connected with names the likes of Furtwangler (no great Mahlerian
asitappens) but he's no Walter or Horenstein 'on the stick'....

You may be interested to know (if you don't already) that your 'own' Barber
Olly* is/was considered one of the most important of *the* Mahlerian
conductors and that his 5th (EMI 5 66910-2) recorded in 1970 (I think) with
the New Philharmonia at Watford Town Hall 'set the standard for decades to
come - both musically and technically' according to the guff in HiFi+...??

Sadly, I wouldn't know - I have not yet come across a copy, but I do have
the absolutely superb 9th he recorded with the BPO in Berlin in January 1963
(CFP 41 4426 3) after which performance he was paid this compliment: "Not
since Furtwangler have we heard such human warmth and soul combined with
such musicianship." Needless to say, as a result of this 'conversation', I'm
now *gagging* to play it again! When I do (it needs a clean first), I will
probably record it to hard disk at the same time...(??? ;-)


It should have been a good listen, it wasn't - I never have too great
expectations of 'youth orchestras' (especially ones which are a bit thin
on the ground) but this performance pretty soon proved to be a 'mainly
visual' experience....

Quite a different reaction here. Looking forwards to re-enjoying the
recording I made on DVD.

Also planning to record the R3 FM rebroadcast onto
CD for comparison purposes.


When is that? - I went for the R3 button when the TV performance was on to
see if I could get a better sound (as you do) but it was summat else
entirely!

Would you like an 'evaluation copy' of my Naxos CD version of the First by
the Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra under Michael Halsz? The
recording's a bit weedy but the actual performance is *outstanding* - the
very first few bars clearly demonstrate what little chance any 'youth
orchestra' (however worthy) stands when attempting to reproduce true
'Mahlerian' range and scale!! (An utterly sublime recording - I'm certain
you and your wife would like it!)


You say "sound off the telly". FWIW I fed the sound as s/pdif from my DTTV
RX to a meridian dac, and then to the rest of the audio. Experiments show
that the analogue outputs from out TV sound much poorer than this.


That's probably where it hangs - we only have the iDtV's analogue output
going into an AV amp...


* A snippet on the record sleeve of the 9th I think well worth the effort to
repeat he

"Whilst recording the first movement Sir John was asked by the players to
solve a difficult fingering problem for the 'cellos. Leaving the rostrum and
picking up the first 'cellist's instrument, he played the passage with the
'cello section. The result was a revelation."

(Asked the right bloke there asitappens, but it is still the stuff of
legends...!! :-)

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I don't know if my ears are being poisoned by the fullrange speakers I'm
using atm, but the sound off the telly (external amp Sony, Ruark
speakers) was almost unlistenable with the Mahler 1 on tonight's Prom.
Are we being compressed again (digital channel)?

I only caught the first half as I wanted to watch Poirot which started at
9. On Freeview, I thought the dynamics quite reasonable. But there's a
good chance they were squeezed somewhat for telly compared to R3 - and it
was probably a different balance given the vast number of spot mics out
there. I've seen fewer used on a pop orchestra. ;-)



They'll be needing those for the 'PA System'....!! ;-)

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Pat Wallace" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

Anybody catch the Mahler just now?

I don't know if my ears are being poisoned by the fullrange speakers I'm
using atm, but the sound off the telly (external amp Sony, Ruark speakers)
was almost unlistenable with the Mahler 1 on tonight's Prom. Are we being
compressed again (digital channel)?
:

I agree. From a Sony Digibox the BBC 4 sound was just plain distorted -
clearly something wrong. It was especially obvious whenever there was an
enthusiastic thwack on the bass drum; the system audibly ducked, and
never cleaned up even during more even passages.

I wish we could return to the good old simulcast days when you could
substitute R3 sound, but the asynchronism between pictures and sound -
anything from seconds to minutes - now rules that out.


So much for the 'new digital era' eh? ;-)

(Or: 'Tant pis' again!!)

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Keith G" wrote


You may be interested to know (if you don't already) that your 'own'
Barber Olly* is/was considered one of the most important of *the*
Mahlerian conductors and that his 5th (EMI 5 66910-2) recorded in 1970 (I
think) with the New Philharmonia at Watford Town Hall 'set the standard
for decades to come - both musically and technically' according to the
guff in HiFi+...??


Er, hokay then.....

http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/page7/page7.html

:-))

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:06:31 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Malcolm Stewart
writes
"Keith G" wrote in message
om...

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...

We thought the sound was OK, but then we were comparing it with what we
endured last night at Kenwood, where the sound was dire.

****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic....

I wonder if one of my fellow residents, Marshall, in Milton Keynes is
responsible? In a recent local TV review of his company and career, I
remember people being interviewed saying that they liked the "thicker" sound
of his amplifiers. I think that was referring to amplifying electric
guitars, but it now seems to be everywhere as the norm. (Didn't see any
labels at Kenwood so don't know whose gear it was, but it certainly didn't
do anything for the music. Makes the discussions about MP3 versus ATRAC
compression seem somewhat pointless.)

Yes but isn't the amp part of the sound of the guitar?....

Yes, and you do *not* want that kind of thing when *reproducing* the
sound of a Marshall stack! Malcolm is of course quite wrong, the
notable thing aboput modern amps is how *good* are the majority of
them. Keith is of course a "valves 'n vinyl" guy, so his opinion of
what constitutes '**** poor sound' is hardly reliable!

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:20:05 +0100, "Malcolm Stewart"
wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

Yes but isn't the amp part of the sound of the guitar?....
--
Tony Sayer

I guess it is, but it's certainly not normally the sound of a classical
orchestra playing opera excerpts.
I suppose the fabric "tent" behind the orchestra reflects so little of the
orchestra's sound that some amplification is needed.

I've been to many outdoor classical concerts, and the sound does
indeed tend to be very 'dry' due to the lack of room ambiennce and
reverberation, but I'd agree that using poor-quality PA (presumably
with added reverb) to compensate, doesn't seem like a good idea. Baby,
dogs *and* goldfish out with the bathwater..............

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
:
As far as I know, BBC4 takes a straight R3 audio feed for the music part
and just adds its own presenters.

Did I mean BBC2? Anyway, whatever TV channel the broadcast was on.
The audio in my case went Sony Digibox - JVC telly - Audiolab amp -
Sennheiser HD600 cans. And it sounded grainy. I attempted an A/B
comparison with R3 but the radio broadcast was several minutes ahead of
the TV.

Patrick Wallace
__________________________________________________ ________________________

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
:
...but the radio broadcast was several minutes ahead of
the TV.

Err, not minutes, surely?

Yes, a couple of movements - presumably through the magic of hard disk (or
RAM?). I see the R3 broadcast was 1830-2030, while on BBC2 it was
1900-2100.

I'm not sure how good the audio circuitry in your TV is - not all are
beyond reproach. If you could feed your STB direct to the amp, this would
soon proove things.

I may try this, though on other televised proms the sound has been OK.
The only effect of the TV being in the chain that I've observed so far is
a small amount of background noise, which sounds like video breakthrough.

Patrick Wallace
__________________________________________________ ________________________

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:06:31 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Malcolm Stewart
writes
"Keith G" wrote in message
. com...

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...

We thought the sound was OK, but then we were comparing it with what
we
endured last night at Kenwood, where the sound was dire.

****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic....

I wonder if one of my fellow residents, Marshall, in Milton Keynes is
responsible? In a recent local TV review of his company and career, I
remember people being interviewed saying that they liked the "thicker"
sound
of his amplifiers. I think that was referring to amplifying electric
guitars, but it now seems to be everywhere as the norm. (Didn't see any
labels at Kenwood so don't know whose gear it was, but it certainly
didn't
do anything for the music. Makes the discussions about MP3 versus ATRAC
compression seem somewhat pointless.)

Yes but isn't the amp part of the sound of the guitar?....

Yes, and you do *not* want that kind of thing when *reproducing* the
sound of a Marshall stack! Malcolm is of course quite wrong, the
notable thing aboput modern amps is how *good* are the majority of
them. Keith is of course a "valves 'n vinyl" guy, so his opinion of
what constitutes '**** poor sound' is hardly reliable!


It gets worse - now I'm even poncing about with homebrew horns (or 'back
horn-loaded' fullrange-driver speakers, to be more accrit).... ;-)

(See other post...)

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:


Well, I thought it was the 'Eurovision verson' segued into one long
undulating, tune with very limited dynamics (not the band's fault - it,
was so small) and none of the real drama (the anticipation, thunderous
crescendos/ensuing tranquility) of the *real thing*. I know Barenboim's
association with Mahler goes back half a century when, as pianist......


Now there's an interesting comparison. Listening to Mahler's own piano
reduction performances (recorded on the Welte Mignon piano rolls) he doesn't
half trap on a bit compared to what we became used to more recently.

Roy.

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article , Stewart
Pinkerton writes
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:06:31 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Malcolm Stewart
writes
"Keith G" wrote in message
. com...

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...

We thought the sound was OK, but then we were comparing it with what we
endured last night at Kenwood, where the sound was dire.

****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic....

I wonder if one of my fellow residents, Marshall, in Milton Keynes is
responsible? In a recent local TV review of his company and career, I
remember people being interviewed saying that they liked the "thicker" sound
of his amplifiers. I think that was referring to amplifying electric
guitars, but it now seems to be everywhere as the norm. (Didn't see any
labels at Kenwood so don't know whose gear it was, but it certainly didn't
do anything for the music. Makes the discussions about MP3 versus ATRAC
compression seem somewhat pointless.)

Yes but isn't the amp part of the sound of the guitar?....

Yes, and you do *not* want that kind of thing when *reproducing* the
sound of a Marshall stack! Malcolm is of course quite wrong, the
notable thing aboput modern amps is how *good* are the majority of
them. Keith is of course a "valves 'n vinyl" guy, so his opinion of
what constitutes '**** poor sound' is hardly reliable!


I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for her on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic
flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was
dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for her
on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)



See above: "****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic...."

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:47:24 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic
flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was
dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for her
on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)



See above: "****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic...."

You like valves and vinyl. Hence, ****-poor sound is your
*benchmark*.......... :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article , Malcolm Stewart
writes
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for her on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)

Anyone remember that Ravi Shanker concert some many years ago with the
stacks of QUAD ESL 63's?...
--
Tony Sayer

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article , Keith G
writes

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic
flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was
dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for her
on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)



See above: "****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic...."


Yes on that, I will agree with you;)!.....





--
Tony Sayer

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article , tony sayer
writes
In article , Malcolm Stewart
writes
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for her on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)

Anyone remember that Ravi Shanker concert some many years ago with the
stacks of QUAD ESL 63's?...

Korrectshun ESL57's....
--
Tony Sayer

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:47:24 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to
us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over
amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic
flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was
dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for
her
on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)



See above: "****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic...."

You like valves and vinyl. Hence, ****-poor sound is your
*benchmark*.......... :-)


Yep, certainly is - my *benchmark* is CD. I would *never* buy an LP if the
corresponding CD was *better*...!! :-)

(Guess what?? ;-)

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
writes

"Malcolm Stewart" wrote in
message ...
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to
us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over
amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic
flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was
dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for
her
on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)



See above: "****-poor sound quality is becoming a modern epidemic...."


Yes on that, I will agree with you;)!.....


You may be interested to know that the FM signal on my car radio disappears
(mostly, not *always*) when I pull off the main drag down the bottom of the
road from here!!??

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:23:23 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Malcolm Stewart
writes
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for her on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)

Anyone remember that Ravi Shanker concert some many years ago with the
stacks of QUAD ESL 63's?...

Nerd alert! Not stacked, but lined up in a row behind him.... :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 20:29:44 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , tony sayer
writes
In article , Malcolm Stewart
writes
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
I seemed to have missed a post somewhere about this. Seems some marshal
stacks were being used for sound reinforcement was this at a classical
gig?.....
--
Tony Sayer

Hi Tony,
It's probably my fault. We went to a concert two months ago where, to us,
the sound of a flamenco style guitarist was spoilt by over amplification.
The credits mentioned Marshall amps. After this (Jim?) Marshall was
featured on our local TV, and the mention that people liked the thicker
sound came up. I didn't - it spoilt the clarity of some fantastic flamenco
playing.
Then last Saturday for a special treat we went to a (pseudo) classical
open-air concert at the Kenwood (Bowl) where the re-inforced sound was dire.
It must have been bad because it's the first time my partner has ever
noticed poor sound - and that spoilt the "romance" of the evening for her on
a special birthday.
(and "No", we couldn't see any names on the various stacks of speakers.)

Anyone remember that Ravi Shanker concert some many years ago with the
stacks of QUAD ESL 63's?...

Korrectshun ESL57's....

Whoops! Missed that obvious correction in a drastically failed attempt
to be a smartarse! :-( :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
You may be interested to know that the FM signal on my car radio
disappears (mostly, not *always*) when I pull off the main drag down
the bottom of the road from here!!??

Years ago before the fill in R4 transmitter at CP, Wrotham used to totally
disappear when crossing Wandsworth Common on Trinity Road in the car and
inching forward in a traffic jam. To the point where you couldn't hear
what was being said. Move a few feet and it came back. And the then DG,
John Birt, lived just off this road. But no external TV or radio aerial on
his house. Not far from that on the other side of the common I'd got an 8
element FM yagi to try and minimise FM multipath.

Either he didn't listen to BBC radio, or he had a line feed. ;-)

--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
You may be interested to know that the FM signal on my car radio
disappears (mostly, not *always*) when I pull off the main drag down
the bottom of the road from here!!??

Years ago before the fill in R4 transmitter at CP, Wrotham used to totally
disappear when crossing Wandsworth Common on Trinity Road in the car and
inching forward in a traffic jam. To the point where you couldn't hear
what was being said. Move a few feet and it came back. And the then DG,
John Birt, lived just off this road. But no external TV or radio aerial on
his house. Not far from that on the other side of the common I'd got an 8
element FM yagi to try and minimise FM multipath.

Either he didn't listen to BBC radio, or he had a line feed. ;-)

Beings it was a well funded state broadcaster, then I'd reckon very
possibly;).

And some support staff......


--
Tony Sayer

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

In article , Keith G
writes

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
You may be interested to know that the FM signal on my car radio
disappears (mostly, not *always*) when I pull off the main drag down
the bottom of the road from here!!??

Years ago before the fill in R4 transmitter at CP, Wrotham used to totally
disappear when crossing Wandsworth Common on Trinity Road in the car and
inching forward in a traffic jam. To the point where you couldn't hear
what was being said. Move a few feet and it came back. And the then DG,
John Birt, lived just off this road. But no external TV or radio aerial on
his house. Not far from that on the other side of the common I'd got an 8
element FM yagi to try and minimise FM multipath.

Either he didn't listen to BBC radio, or he had a line feed. ;-)



Probably got a dish on the roof (microwave)??

Call me daft but I actually think my car's choosy - it's almost like R2 will
get through but Classic FM won't? Is that a possible 'transmitter
thing'...??





What's the car and what's the receiver, and you are tuned to the correct
TX?....
--
Tony Sayer

'Tant pis' indeed....
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
writes



Call me daft but I actually think my car's choosy - it's almost like R2
will
get through but Classic FM won't? Is that a possible 'transmitter
thing'...??





What's the car


Citroen Xantia


and what's the receiver,


No idea! (Whatever they fit?)


and you are tuned to the correct
TX?....


Ooh gawd, if I thought there were going to be *questions* I'da kept quiet!!
;-)