"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

In article ,
Cessna172 wrote:
Interconnect 1 or 2 do not alter other aspects of the sound. I have
listened for hours to the same track, alternating the interconnects. The
only difference I can detect, is an increase in bass out the speakers
with interconnect two. It is not a small increase either.

Then it would be very easy to measure and ascertain just why this was
happening. However, if it is increasing the bass on a normal setup, it's
achieving this by reducing other frequencies. So is a crappy cable.

The other frequencies are anything but reduced - its the sweetest sounding
system I have had since I started listening 10 years ago. Its very
transparent and uncoloured. Maybe its the other interconnect reducing the
bass - who cares if the end result is lovely sound?

--
Cessna172

In article . 23,
Cessna172 wrote:
Then it would be very easy to measure and ascertain just why this was
happening. However, if it is increasing the bass on a normal setup,
it's achieving this by reducing other frequencies. So is a crappy
cable.

The other frequencies are anything but reduced - its the sweetest
sounding system I have had since I started listening 10 years ago.

Just how do you know the other frequencies aren't reduced? A cable is
passive. It simply can't increase anything - just reduce things. So if it
apparently increases the bass it does so by *reducing* other frequencies.
Because the simplest bit of bell wire will handle LF perfectly. After all,
that's what it's designed to do...

Its very transparent and uncoloured.

Oh dear.

Maybe its the other interconnect reducing the bass - who cares if the
end result is lovely sound?

Because in 99.9% of these sort of cases, it's all in the mind, and the
believer can't actually tell the difference between cables in properly
conducted tests.

Now things like 'transparent' and 'uncoloured' are hard to prove or
disprove. But a simple increase in bass is easily measured. And those with
an enquiring mind would want to know why brand X of cable alters the
frequency response when a decent cable simply shouldn't.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

In article . 23,
Cessna172 wrote:
Then it would be very easy to measure and ascertain just why this
was happening. However, if it is increasing the bass on a normal
setup, it's achieving this by reducing other frequencies. So is a
crappy cable.

The other frequencies are anything but reduced - its the sweetest
sounding system I have had since I started listening 10 years ago.

Just how do you know the other frequencies aren't reduced? A cable is
passive. It simply can't increase anything - just reduce things. So if
it apparently increases the bass it does so by *reducing* other
frequencies. Because the simplest bit of bell wire will handle LF
perfectly. After all, that's what it's designed to do...

Frequencies aren't being reduced. I hear the same high frequencies
between the interconnects - one of them doesn't reduce the bass.


Its very transparent and uncoloured.

Oh dear.

It is.

Maybe its the other interconnect reducing the bass - who cares if the
end result is lovely sound?

Because in 99.9% of these sort of cases, it's all in the mind, and the
believer can't actually tell the difference between cables in properly
conducted tests.

It isn't in the mind, it is a large difference in bass response.

Now things like 'transparent' and 'uncoloured' are hard to prove or
disprove. But a simple increase in bass is easily measured. And those
with an enquiring mind would want to know why brand X of cable alters
the frequency response when a decent cable simply shouldn't.

I bought two interconnects, one of them has more associated bass. It may
be the interconnect is "rubbish", but it sure works well in my system - I
don't need to know more.



--
Cessna172

In article . 23,
Cessna172 wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

In article ,
Cessna172 wrote:
Interconnect 1 or 2 do not alter other aspects of the sound. I have
listened for hours to the same track, alternating the interconnects.
The only difference I can detect, is an increase in bass out the
speakers with interconnect two. It is not a small increase either.

Then it would be very easy to measure and ascertain just why this was
happening. However, if it is increasing the bass on a normal setup,
it's achieving this by reducing other frequencies. So is a crappy
cable.

The other frequencies are anything but reduced - its the sweetest
sounding system I have had since I started listening 10 years ago.

This "sweetness" may be a perception caused by a slight roll-off of the
high HF


Its very transparent and uncoloured. Maybe its the other interconnect
reducing the bass - who cares if the end result is lovely sound?

Well, perhaps *you* should care if the change is produced by an affect that
may also be causing distortion, or perhaps increasing the risk of damage to
the source?...

Above said, I find it curious that so many of the people who appear on this
group to make assertions about the 'sounds' of the cables seem so lacking
in any intellectual curiousity that they seem not to have any interest in
trying to discover what reasons (if any) may be causing what they say they
can hear.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article . 12,
Cessna172 wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:


Because in 99.9% of these sort of cases, it's all in the mind, and the
believer can't actually tell the difference between cables in properly
conducted tests.

It isn't in the mind, it is a large difference in bass response.

I look forwards to you gaining 1000 UKP by showing you are correct, and are
not either self-deluded or mistaken about the cause of what you claim. :-)

I wonder what evidence you have that it is *not* "all in the mind",
though... To determine this, some form of test would be required that
could test/exclude that possibility. Have you performed such a test? Or are
you simply stating your *belief* that this "isn't in the mind"?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Cessna172 wrote:

Interconnect 1 or 2 do not alter other aspects of the sound. I have
listened for hours to the same track, alternating the interconnects.
The only difference I can detect, is an increase in bass out the
speakers with interconnect two. It is not a small increase either.

Are you sure it doesn't decrease the treble?


--
The pellet with the poison's in the flagon with the dragon; the vessel
with the pestle has the brew that is true.

In article . 12,
Cessna172 wrote:
Just how do you know the other frequencies aren't reduced? A cable is
passive. It simply can't increase anything - just reduce things. So if
it apparently increases the bass it does so by *reducing* other
frequencies. Because the simplest bit of bell wire will handle LF
perfectly. After all, that's what it's designed to do...

Frequencies aren't being reduced. I hear the same high frequencies
between the interconnects - one of them doesn't reduce the bass.

Bell wire wouldn't reduce the bass. It's all in your mind, I'm afraid.

--
*42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

It seems to me, Dave, that we're crying in the wilderness.

Hi-fi and consumer audio (even pro-audio is sadly going that way) has lost
pretty much its engineering base and become a religion. People "believe"
cables make a difference when every known test, measurement and rigorous
analysis shows quite conclusively that there can't be and there isn't any
difference between cables. However, if someone "believes," then there is
really no argument they will accept.

Quad did tests back in the late seventies that quite convincingly proved
that there was no difference in amplifer sound comparing a valved Quad II, a
transistorised output-triples Quad 303 and a current dumping Quad 405 when
they were used within their design capabilities and normalised for power
output. If three amplifiers that measure very differently can sound the
same, it's pretty unlikely that today's similarly measuring amplifiers will
sound different, but people persist in believing they do. If anyone is
interested, I can find the article which was published in Wireless World,
and email them a copy.

You don't see car magazines going on about how different petrols perform, so
I don't know why audio should be so dominated by "beliefs" and why sound
engineering (no pun intended) is largely ignored.

S.



"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article . 23,
Cessna172 wrote:
Then it would be very easy to measure and ascertain just why this was
happening. However, if it is increasing the bass on a normal setup,
it's achieving this by reducing other frequencies. So is a crappy
cable.

The other frequencies are anything but reduced - its the sweetest
sounding system I have had since I started listening 10 years ago.

Just how do you know the other frequencies aren't reduced? A cable is
passive. It simply can't increase anything - just reduce things. So if it
apparently increases the bass it does so by *reducing* other frequencies.
Because the simplest bit of bell wire will handle LF perfectly. After all,
that's what it's designed to do...

Its very transparent and uncoloured.

Oh dear.

Maybe its the other interconnect reducing the bass - who cares if the
end result is lovely sound?

Because in 99.9% of these sort of cases, it's all in the mind, and the
believer can't actually tell the difference between cables in properly
conducted tests.

Now things like 'transparent' and 'uncoloured' are hard to prove or
disprove. But a simple increase in bass is easily measured. And those with
an enquiring mind would want to know why brand X of cable alters the
frequency response when a decent cable simply shouldn't.

--
*Ah, I see the f**k-up fairy has visited us again

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article . 12, Cessna172
wrote:
Because in 99.9% of these sort of cases, it's all in the mind, and the
believer can't actually tell the difference between cables in properly
conducted tests.

It isn't in the mind, it is a large difference in bass response.

If it really isn't in the mind, it must be measureable. If you haven't the
instruments or the inclination to make measurements yourself, please
describe the setup you are using, including especially details of these
cables, because I am sure there must be plenty of people here who would be
very interested to see objective proof of the effects you describe. So far,
there seems to be nothing more than unfounded personal claims about what
individuals say they can hear, but nothing that can be verified by anybody
else.

Rod.

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:34:10 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:

This "sweetness" may be a perception caused by a slight roll-off of the
high HF

Its very transparent and uncoloured. Maybe its the other interconnect
reducing the bass - who cares if the end result is lovely sound?

Well, perhaps *you* should care if the change is produced by an affect
that may also be causing distortion, or perhaps increasing the risk of
damage to the source?...

Above said, I find it curious that so many of the people who appear on
this group to make assertions about the 'sounds' of the cables seem so
lacking in any intellectual curiousity that they seem not to have any
interest in trying to discover what reasons (if any) may be causing what
they say they can hear.

I understand the general position taken by the cognoscenti of this group
that if a cable sounds good, it really means it is causing a distortion
which you happen to like. Or, it is your imagination.

So given that most people do not have test equipment in their homes what
are they advised to do when faced with a decision.....

A customer buys a new amplifier and the shop lends some interconnects and
speaker leads to him/her for a few days. The customer then finds that
he/she has a preference for leads and can at least to their satisfaction
rate them in order of preference. (This does not mean they have the
confidence to sit a public exam on the subject £1000 or not). On returning
to the shop they enquire prices and decide that one or more of their
preferences is affordable.

Should the customer go to Maplins and buy standard interconnects and leads
or buy what they *think* they prefer? If the former, how can you justify
buying even a loudspeaker by audition? Should it not be purchased on
specification alone?

Cheers,

Bob.

But this isn't what happens. Over the years of buying bits of audio
gear you collect so many free interconnects that you never need to be
lent any by a shop for evaluation. You just dive into your bits box
for a chunk of wire, and off you go.

Unfortunately that doesn't earn the shops any money. The ensuing maths
is fairly easy.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com