DBT in audio - a protocol
 

"EddieM" wrote in message
...

ScottW wrote
EddieM wrote:
nyob123 wrote




Asking him for help is not likely to get you any results that could be
helpful.

The above from you is an opinion you get to have.

Of course you could prove him wrong.

ScottW



How the **** am I suppose to prove that these two
cowards i.e. Pearce and McKelvy to be wrong if all
these two ****in assholes wants to do is run away with
their tail in-tuck.


By providing some helpful input instead of looking like a squid ****ing
ink in fear.

ScottW

DBT in audio - a protocol
 

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

I've said that all along, been saying it for years.

It's a red herring all along, its been a red herring for years.

That is the one basic and underlying flaw of DBT and objectivism,
it ignores preferences under sighted conditions,

Not at all. Preferences under sighted conditions are fine, if there is any
reliably perceptible difference to base those preference son.

That is how we always listen to music at home.

So what?

The DBT is not real world conditions.

If you want to take that viewpoint, then no listening test done at a stereo
show or dealer is valid either.

I listen sighted, so I want to listen to
what I prefer when comparing in the sighted mode.

IOW Art, you only want to take a test if the right answer is presented to
you in an obvious way.

This then isn't about reinforcing preferences, its about reinforcing biases.

DBT in audio - a protocol
 

ScottW wrote
EddieM wrote
ScottW wrote
EddieM wrote:
nyob123 wrote




Asking him for help is not likely to get you any results that could be
helpful.

The above from you is an opinion you get to have.

Of course you could prove him wrong.

ScottW



How the **** am I suppose to prove that these two
cowards i.e. Pearce and McKelvy to be wrong if all
these two ****in assholes wants to do is run away with
their tail in-tuck.


By providing some helpful input

I been doin that all along, are you blind ?

instead of looking like a squid ****ing ink in fear.


What do you mean by that ?

ScottW

DBT in audio - a protocol
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

I've said that all along, been saying it for years.

It's a red herring all along, its been a red herring for years.


Red hering? Its the essence of the issue. Preference...
waht makes one more satisfied when listening to music.

That is the one basic and underlying flaw of DBT and objectivism,
it ignores preferences under sighted conditions,

Not at all. Preferences under sighted conditions are fine, if there is any
reliably perceptible difference to base those preference son.


NO, the preference is based upon perceptions when sighted,
based upon differences perceived when sighed. The 'no difference'
result during the test become moot, after the test is over, and the
perceptioms
of difference return.


That is how we always listen to music at home.

So what?



You would say that!


The DBT is not real world conditions.

If you want to take that viewpoint, then no listening test done at a
stereo show or dealer is valid either.

Well, I don't do tests there, I do comparisons. And I would use the
term valid a little differently than you, I am not using it
in the scientific senses, because it is not about science,
nor about scientific tests. But, yes, such comparisons are of limited use.


I listen sighted, so I want to listen to
what I prefer when comparing in the sighted mode.

IOW Art, you only want to take a test if the right answer is presented to
you in an obvious way.


No, not the 'right' is the answer that applies
to my perceptions when I am listening casually, for enjoyment,
sighted, wahtever that answer might be, obvious or not


This then isn't about reinforcing preferences, its about reinforcing
biases.





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DBT in audio - a protocol
 

Clyde Slick wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

I've said that all along, been saying it for years.

It's a red herring all along, its been a red herring for years.


Red hering? Its the essence of the issue. Preference...
waht makes one more satisfied when listening to music.

That is the one basic and underlying flaw of DBT and objectivism,
it ignores preferences under sighted conditions,

Not at all. Preferences under sighted conditions are fine, if there is any
reliably perceptible difference to base those preference son.


NO, the preference is based upon perceptions when sighted,
based upon differences perceived when sighed. The 'no difference'
result during the test become moot, after the test is over, and the
perceptioms
of difference return.


That is how we always listen to music at home.

So what?



You would say that!


The DBT is not real world conditions.

If you want to take that viewpoint, then no listening test done at a
stereo show or dealer is valid either.

Well, I don't do tests there, I do comparisons. And I would use the
term valid a little differently than you, I am not using it
in the scientific senses, because it is not about science,
nor about scientific tests. But, yes, such comparisons are of limited use.


I listen sighted, so I want to listen to
what I prefer when comparing in the sighted mode.

IOW Art, you only want to take a test if the right answer is presented to
you in an obvious way.


No, not the 'right' is the answer that applies
to my perceptions when I am listening casually, for enjoyment,
sighted, wahtever that answer might be, obvious or not


This then isn't about reinforcing preferences, its about reinforcing
biases.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Slick, you'll never convince our ABX inventor that his "test"
is meaningless in the real world of millions of individual audio
consumers of different age, gender, musical preferences (from car-boom
superwoofer to chamber music), experience and training. He "removes
sighted bias"- . In the process he introduces a supposedly universally
applicable method which he never bothered to properly research and
validate in the proper scientific experimental way, the glory of
Western science, described centuries ago by such as Roger Bacon. And
we know why- it could never be validated because it is an inappropriate
caricature of the legitimate medical therapy research method of DBT.
DBT works in medicine because the effects of proposed treatment or lack
of effect can be *seen* and *measured*. The ABX/DBT routines depend on
yes/no questionnaire. Since a few will always have more discernment
than most the outcome is always bound to be "I hear no difference"-
null, negative.
Krueger would not have an inkling of what we're talking about. He said
once that "prolonged listening is a waste of time". His "music" is
"castanets", FM station on his car radio and the wallpaper noise in his
local supermarket. And he is not alone.
Ludovic Mirabel



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DBT in audio - a protocol
 

Clyde Slick wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

I've said that all along, been saying it for years.

It's a red herring all along, its been a red herring for years.


Red hering? Its the essence of the issue. Preference...
waht makes one more satisfied when listening to music.

That is the one basic and underlying flaw of DBT and objectivism,
it ignores preferences under sighted conditions,

Not at all. Preferences under sighted conditions are fine, if there is any
reliably perceptible difference to base those preference son.


NO, the preference is based upon perceptions when sighted,
based upon differences perceived when sighed. The 'no difference'
result during the test become moot, after the test is over, and the
perceptioms
of difference return.


That is how we always listen to music at home.

So what?



You would say that!


The DBT is not real world conditions.

If you want to take that viewpoint, then no listening test done at a
stereo show or dealer is valid either.

Well, I don't do tests there, I do comparisons. And I would use the
term valid a little differently than you, I am not using it
in the scientific senses, because it is not about science,
nor about scientific tests. But, yes, such comparisons are of limited use.


I listen sighted, so I want to listen to
what I prefer when comparing in the sighted mode.

IOW Art, you only want to take a test if the right answer is presented to
you in an obvious way.


No, not the 'right' is the answer that applies
to my perceptions when I am listening casually, for enjoyment,
sighted, wahtever that answer might be, obvious or not


This then isn't about reinforcing preferences, its about reinforcing
biases.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Slick, you'll never convince our ABX inventor that his "test"
is meaningless in the real world of millions of individual audio
consumers of different age, gender, musical preferences (from car-boom
superwoofer to chamber music), experience and training. He "removes
sighted bias"- . In the process he introduces a supposedly universally
applicable method which he never bothered to properly research and
validate in the proper scientific experimental way, the glory of
Western science, described centuries ago by such as Roger Bacon. And
we know why- it could never be validated because it is an inappropriate
caricature of the legitimate medical therapy research method of DBT.
DBT works in medicine because the effects of proposed treatment or lack
of effect can be *seen* and *measured*. The ABX/DBT routines depend on
yes/no questionnaire. Since a few will always have more discernment
than most the outcome is always bound to be "I hear no difference"-
null, negative.
Krueger would not have an inkling of what we're talking about. He said
once that "prolonged listening is a waste of time". His "music" is
"castanets", FM station on his car radio and the wallpaper noise in his
local supermarket. And he is not alone.
Ludovic Mirabel



--
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DBT in audio - a protocol
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

Clyde Slick wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
...

I've said that all along, been saying it for years.

It's a red herring all along, its been a red herring for years.


Red hering? Its the essence of the issue. Preference...
waht makes one more satisfied when listening to music.

That is the one basic and underlying flaw of DBT and objectivism,
it ignores preferences under sighted conditions,

Not at all. Preferences under sighted conditions are fine, if there is
any
reliably perceptible difference to base those preference son.

NO, the preference is based upon perceptions when sighted,
based upon differences perceived when sighed. The 'no difference'
result during the test become moot, after the test is over, and the
perceptioms of difference return.

We've got another live one who thinks that all sighted evaluations should
not be questioned on the grounds that sighted identification of the unit
under test is a relevant uncontrolled variable. :-(

DBT in audio - a protocol
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dear Mr. Slick, you'll never convince our ABX inventor that his "test"
is meaningless in the real world of millions of individual audio
consumers of different age, gender, musical preferences (from car-boom
superwoofer to chamber music), experience and training.

Good think. Reality really bites for dreamers like Art.

He "removes sighted bias"- . In the process he introduces a supposedly
universally
applicable method

"Universally applicable method"??? Where did I say that? Oh, I didn't - but
Mirabel did.

which he never bothered to properly research

Lofty-sounding words, but totally empty since they lack even a hint of how
that might be properly done.

and validate in the proper scientific experimental way, the glory of
Western science, described centuries ago by such as Roger Bacon.

Lofty-sounding words, but totally empty since they lack even a hint of how
that might be properly done.

And
we know why- it could never be validated because it is an inappropriate
caricature of the legitimate medical therapy research method of DBT.

IOW, Mirabel is exactly guilty of what he falsly accuses me of, since
there's no evidence that he has any support for these claims at all.


DBT works in medicine because the effects of proposed treatment or lack
of effect can be *seen* and *measured*.

Oh, I get it - amplifiers and their technical performance cannot be seen or
heard.LOL!

The ABX/DBT routines depend on yes/no questionnaire.

Mirabel finally gets his first fact right. Huzzah!

Since a few will always have more discernment
than most the outcome is always bound to be "I hear no difference"-
null, negative.

Absolutely and totally untrue.

Krueger would not have an inkling of what we're talking about.

I'm doing a pretty fair job of deconstructing it, regardless! ;-)

He said once that "prolonged listening is a waste of time".

Under some circumstances it is. Sue me for knowing when it is, and when it
isn't.

His "music" is "castanets",

Actually, a wide range of music and musical sounds, depending on what works
best for hearing differences.

FM station on his car radio

Shows how out-to-lunch and inobservant Mirabel is. Hint: most of what I
listen to in my car is recordings of live perforamnces that I recorded.

and the wallpaper noise in his local supermarket.

wallpaper noise????

Is Mirabel talking about "elevator music"??? Here's a much-needed hint
Mirabel - my supermarket has only one floor a ground floor and therefore
there is no elevator! ;-)

And he is not alone.

Mirabel ought to educate Middius who keeps saying that I have a lonely life.

DBT in audio - a protocol
 

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:26:06 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

FM station on his car radio

Shows how out-to-lunch and inobservant Mirabel is. Hint: most of what I
listen to in my car is recordings of live perforamnces that I recorded.

One would think that you'd rather listen to decent music.

DBT in audio - a protocol
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dear Mr. Slick, you'll never convince our ABX inventor that his "test"
is meaningless in the real world of millions of individual audio
consumers of different age, gender, musical preferences (from car-boom
superwoofer to chamber music), experience and training.

Good think. Reality really bites for dreamers like Art.


I have no intent of convincing you of anything.
I'm just here to tell the rest of the world
you're a volcano of ****.






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