SETs and the sound of real musicians playing
 

Do we have time to ask why the Mona Lisa is the best painting in the world?

Chinese again ...

A Mona Lisa for £7.50? No problem.
But a freshly painted Dali may take a little longer
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle339995.ece

Mona Lisa for $20? No problem - 25 Jan 2006 - Lifestyle & Leisure
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/6/...ectid=10365204

Or ...

Software speculates why Mona Lisa smiles
http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journal...g/13578996.htm

Nah ...

SETs and the sound of real musicians playing
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"bugbear" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

I'm with Andre on this - I'm not going to apologise for or try to
explain why I like SETs.

Interesting approach to a discussion forum.

It's all been said before, BB, and as Patrick Turner says:
"Most chefs will never discuss cooking with a mob of ppl
who only buy take aways. There is no point."

Nicely put:-)



Yes, it was!! :-)

SETs and the sound of real musicians playing
 

It's all been said before, BB, and as Patrick Turner says:
"Most chefs will never discuss cooking with a mob of ppl
who only buy take aways. There is no point."

Let's examine this analogy, as it is so far off the mark in this case.

What is a "chef"... as opposed to a "cook"?

Well. At the very most basic level, a chef performs artistry with food
_On Command_. And does repeat the performance multiple times, also on
command, whether they like it (or their customers) or not sometimes.
And 100% of their custom are individuals who buy 'take-aways' even if
only to the table in the restaurant (at the most basic level (again))
as they do not sit with their customers typically. Oh, or is it that
you mean the Music-Hall type chef with the waxed moustache screaming
and holding his head... usually winding up with a cream pie in his
face?

But, following the analogy a bit further, it appears that you who use
this analogy are comparing yourselves to "chefs".... otherwise, why use
an inept example? So, as Chefs, you must be used to
performance-on-command... for others who wish to avail themselves of
your cooking. And to do so repeatedly whether you like it or not.

Now, speaking for myself and my personal experiences in restaurants
from Dubai to Khobar to Manama to Istanbul to London (Yechhh!) to New
York, to San Francisco, Montreal, Quebec and more, if one expresses
even the slightest interest in the food served, the chef will talk your
ears off. In one case, I made a bet with a chef (and was he!) that if I
called out every ingredient in his signature soup, he would cook a
special meal for us... I did, even to the process. The meal was
sublime. He refused to let us pay, but we did make sure that the waiter
received his due. (And if anyone wants the recipe... it is for
cream-of-mushroom soup from a restaurant in Al-Riffa in Bahrain - takes
a minimum of 24 hours to make from scratch).

So, if you are well-and-truly chefs, then you are, in fact, artistic
servants to the great unwashed. Otherwise, you are merely cooks...
preparing likely marginal food using questionable ingredients, as you
do not care to discuss them.

Somehow, the cream pie and waxed moustache look more and more apt...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

SETs and the sound of real musicians playing
 

wrote in message
oups.com...
It's all been said before, BB, and as Patrick Turner says:
"Most chefs will never discuss cooking with a mob of ppl
who only buy take aways. There is no point."

Let's examine this analogy, as it is so far off the mark in this case.

What is a "chef"... as opposed to a "cook"?

Well. At the very most basic level, a chef performs artistry with food
_On Command_. And does repeat the performance multiple times, also on
command, whether they like it (or their customers) or not sometimes.
And 100% of their custom are individuals who buy 'take-aways' even if
only to the table in the restaurant (at the most basic level (again))
as they do not sit with their customers typically. Oh, or is it that
you mean the Music-Hall type chef with the waxed moustache screaming
and holding his head... usually winding up with a cream pie in his
face?

But, following the analogy a bit further, it appears that you who use
this analogy are comparing yourselves to "chefs".... otherwise, why use
an inept example? So, as Chefs, you must be used to
performance-on-command... for others who wish to avail themselves of
your cooking. And to do so repeatedly whether you like it or not.

Now, speaking for myself and my personal experiences in restaurants
from Dubai to Khobar to Manama to Istanbul to London (Yechhh!) to New
York, to San Francisco, Montreal, Quebec and more, if one expresses
even the slightest interest in the food served, the chef will talk your
ears off. In one case, I made a bet with a chef (and was he!) that if I
called out every ingredient in his signature soup, he would cook a
special meal for us... I did, even to the process. The meal was
sublime. He refused to let us pay, but we did make sure that the waiter
received his due. (And if anyone wants the recipe... it is for
cream-of-mushroom soup from a restaurant in Al-Riffa in Bahrain - takes
a minimum of 24 hours to make from scratch).

So, if you are well-and-truly chefs, then you are, in fact, artistic
servants to the great unwashed. Otherwise, you are merely cooks...
preparing likely marginal food using questionable ingredients, as you
do not care to discuss them.

Somehow, the cream pie and waxed moustache look more and more apt...

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


Entertaining post. Peter. Thanks:-)

I put a much more simple interpretation on what Patrick wrote.
I saw the analogy between someone who takes pride in making a good
soup, which he tastes and flavours, to perfection, in comnparison
with those who are happy with a limp pizza or half warm Chinese
take-away.

By the way, have you noticed how many tube-audiophiles are
also very good cooks? I know several.

Iain

SETs and the sound of real musicians playing
 

Iain:

Words are many things. Tools, weapons, great fun, scalpels, almost
anything that can be imagined. I try to pay attention to them, both
what is 'written' and if discernable, what is 'meant'. Too often they
are not the same. And far too often they are used as a smoke-screen to
either hide a lack of understanding or to prevent enlightenment. Both,
commonly here, and often by the same person in the same post. So when I
see cultists climbing up on a flimsy analogy rather than engage in
actual discussion it is great fun to provide that tiny puff of wind...
If just to get all feet back on the ground and perhaps clear away the
smoke. Keep in mind that the cultists will never understand that they
are being tweaked.

By the way, have you noticed how many tube-audiophiles are
also very good cooks? I know several.

The congruences I have noticed a

Predominantly (though not exclusively) male
Cooking
Cats
Very good looking women (those who are interested in such)
Pendulum Clocks
And usually at least one other mechanical hobby (in my case, R/C
submarines & boats).

And applicable to those who _enjoy_ the _hobby_, not making a religion
(or especially a crusade) of it.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

SETs and the sound of real musicians playing
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

Iain:

Words are many things. Tools, weapons, great fun, scalpels, almost
anything that can be imagined. I try to pay attention to them, both
what is 'written' and if discernable, what is 'meant'. Too often they
are not the same. And far too often they are used as a smoke-screen to
either hide a lack of understanding or to prevent enlightenment. Both,
commonly here, and often by the same person in the same post. So when I
see cultists climbing up on a flimsy analogy rather than engage in
actual discussion it is great fun to provide that tiny puff of wind...
If just to get all feet back on the ground and perhaps clear away the
smoke. Keep in mind that the cultists will never understand that they
are being tweaked.

Hello Peter.

I can't really say I am a SET person (though I have been impressed
by what I have heard, with certain small-ensemble classical music)

But I am a "bottlehead", and have been for most my life, except for
a short excursion in SS-land in the early 1970s. Perhaps it is
some kind of an escape for me, from the environ of digital consoles
high power SS amplifiers, and digital audio workstations, in which I
spend most of my time.

But I get huge enjoyment from my tube amps, perhaps because
like many "bottleheads" I build my own- much better value for
money, and I can get every aesthetic detail just as I want it -
right down to the number of inputs, their sensitivity levels -
even the engraving on the front logo and knobs.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/C50_002.jpg

You were asking the difference between a chef and a cook?
Maybe that's it. No take-aways for me:-)

There are many dedicated people on RAT, from whom
one always gets help advice and encouragement.both on and
off group.



By the way, have you noticed how many tube-audiophiles are
also very good cooks? I know several.

The congruences I have noticed a

Predominantly (though not exclusively) male
Cooking
Cats
Very good looking women (those who are interested in such)
Pendulum Clocks

And usually at least one other mechanical hobby (in my case, R/C
submarines & boats).

Sacre bleu! I am fascinated by all of the above - though not necessarily
in the order in which you list them and I would substitute British military
history and black powder muskets for your submarine. Though I
did once have the chance to look round a Russian nuclear submarine,
a sister ship to the ill-fated Kursk, while it was on a goodwill tour
of the Baltic ports.

And applicable to those who _enjoy_ the _hobby_, not making a religion
(or especially a crusade) of it.

Why does it have to be a crusade? Why are so many people who enjoy
valve/tube audio reluctant to say so? I frequently get e-mails from people
who "lurk" on RAT and other groups, but don't have the courage to post or
ask questions for fear of being ostracized by others. That's a shame!

I count myself fortunate that I have been a recording professional all
my working life and have enjoyed every minute of it. Personally, it is
not important to me if people choose an SS, a valve/tubePP or
valve/tube SET system. What is important, and makes me happy,
is that they are listening to and enjoying music.

Best regards
Iain

SETs and the sound of real musicians playing
 

"Iain Churches" wrote


Sacre bleu! I am fascinated by all of the above - though not necessarily
in the order in which you list them and I would substitute British
military
history and black powder muskets for your submarine.


Indeed??

I used to own and (as Secretary of Stevenage Rifle Club) regularly shoot:

A Parker Hale replica Enfield 1858 two-band .477 Naval Rifle!!

http://www.lrml.org/parkerhale/rifles.htm

And a 'Cape ???' (forget now) double-barelled 12 bore black-powder shotgun
(*not* a 'Cape' combination gun!)

http://www.cherrys.com/stokpics/15878the.jpg


And a Uberti 'Navy Colt' .44 cap & ball percussion revolver.

http://www.uberti.com/firearms/1861-navy.tpl

**Excellent fun**!!

I think I regret stopping, 'til my 'clay pigeon' mate Len comes round - deef
as a beetle now....

Small world though, innit??


And applicable to those who _enjoy_ the _hobby_, not making a religion
(or especially a crusade) of it.

Why does it have to be a crusade?


It isn't a crusade - what we have had in ukra is a prolonged and spirited
defence of valves as 'valid audio kit' by a small few (me, mostly until you
arrived) against an unending onslaught from a few (not that many) who,
having burnt their valves and vinyl boats a few years ago (ie invested
heavily in ss and CD), have proceded to twist every favourable comment about
valves into a false, 'strawman' arguments about 'fidelity' and
'accuracy'....

(To my knowledge, *no-one* has ever claimed 'valve superiority' in either
respect - I certainly haven't!!)

Now that valves are back in the shops amd mags, it seems to be that there
has been some degree of concession to the latest trend and the *argument*
has now shifted to 'SET vs PP'...!!

:-))


Why are so many people who enjoy
valve/tube audio reluctant to say so? I frequently get e-mails from
people
who "lurk" on RAT and other groups, but don't have the courage to post or
ask questions for fear of being ostracized by others.


Yes, I have had *tons* of that....!!

SETs and the sound of real musicians playing
 

Iain Churches wrote

It's all been said before

No it hasn't. If you despise the new and tire of the old, you may as
well die. Progress has no use for you.

Perhaps you like to think that what you don't understand is just
some code for what you already know, so you can't be arsed to make
an effort.

Not picking on you in particular...everyone more or less.

... and as Patrick Turner says:
"Most chefs will never discuss cooking with a mob of ppl
who only buy take aways. There is no point."

Nicely put:-)

But not very bright coming from a take-away chef.

A cook is a lover, a chef is a prostitute. A back-street take-away
chef is not a pleasant ****er.

cheers, Ian

SETs and the sound of real musicians playing
 

Ian Iveson wrote:

Iain Churches wrote

It's all been said before

No it hasn't. If you despise the new and tire of the old, you may as
well die. Progress has no use for you.

Depends on who says what Ian.



Perhaps you like to think that what you don't understand is just
some code for what you already know, so you can't be arsed to make
an effort.

You have an anal fixation......



Not picking on you in particular...everyone more or less.

... and as Patrick Turner says:
"Most chefs will never discuss cooking with a mob of ppl
who only buy take aways. There is no point."

Nicely put:-)

But not very bright coming from a take-away chef.

A cook is a lover, a chef is a prostitute. A back-street take-away
chef is not a pleasant ****er.

Where does that place you Ian?

Are your the ****ee, or the ****er?

Prostitution prospers only when wiling clients pay to consumate the
service presented.

Marriage was supposed to have been invented so the services of a
prostitute
can be given without paying money, and given freely.
It allows cooking to happen without a chef's fee having to be paid.

But since marriage has gone the way of the dodo, women charge
men for services of cooking and sex, both supposed to be actions of
love.

The least said sentance in the english language is

" Jus lie down here luvvy, it won't cost yer anyfink "

The next least said sentance is

"jus you sit down while i cook something nice"

But a good chef can be a good cook;
the commercial reward for good cooking does not sully a chef'
reputation;
on the contrary, the great chef will be paid well for his great cooking,

rather like the great ****er gets paid well for her exquistite loving.
( Although while her services are not attractive to me since I don't
like lining
up to be the 49th client in a week, I don't mind being the 49th customer

at a restaurant )

I am not desperate to hear much old BS from Ian though.

Patrick Turner.





cheers, Ian