Having just got a new pair of Quad 989 ESL speakers due to listening to
so many people say the room and the speakers are the two most important
factors in good Hi Fi, what do I say to a friend of mine who has just
added a Naim CDS 3 player to his Naim equipment and swears by the
difference it has made.
In conclusion, two questions, first of all the importance, (or
otherwise) of the Player in a system and Secondly, what is your opinion
of the new Naim CDS 3 player.
--
Derrick Fawsitt

"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...
Having just got a new pair of Quad 989 ESL speakers due to listening to so
many people say the room and the speakers are the two most important
factors in good Hi Fi, what do I say to a friend of mine who has just
added a Naim CDS 3 player to his Naim equipment and swears by the
difference it has made.
In conclusion, two questions, first of all the importance, (or otherwise)
of the Player in a system and Secondly, what is your opinion of the new
Naim CDS 3 player.
--
Derrick Fawsitt

Whether or not the Naim CD player made a difference does rather depend on
what was there before :-) However, if we assume that whatever was there
before was also a decent quality player, then I doubt if changing to the
Naim would make all that much difference. Every CD player of any consequence
has a flat frequency response, vanishingly low distortion and low noise, so
what else is there? For several years now, A-D converters have been of such
a standard that the differences between them is vanishingly small.

On the other hand, there is still a very considerable difference between
loudspeakers, none have a flat response or low distortion when compared to
electronics, and their dispersion characteristics can interact more or less
with the room , such that by far the greatest difference to a hi-fi system
will be inchanging the 'speakers. Congratulations on the 'speakers, BTW,
they should sound great provided you can give them plenty of air to breath,
especially behind.

Regarding your specific question about the Naim CDS3, I have no personal
experience of this player, but there was an extensive review in HFN in
October 2003, where the lab measurements were all pretty much what one would
expect except that noise was a trifle high at -93.5dB and frequency response
was down by 1.2dB at 20kHz. However, even if these figures are a bit less
than one would expect in a modern player, they are very unlikely to be
audible. Output impedance was low at 25 ohms, so there should be no problem
driving any sensible length of cable and subsequent amplifier. If you like
the look and facilities of the Naim, I can't think of any technical reason
not to buy one, other than the price.

S.

Rubbish in, rubbish out. No matter how good the speakers are they can only
reproduce what they get. Rubbish in, rubbish out. Front end is ALWAYS the
most important.

--
John the West Ham fan

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...

"Derrick Fawsitt" wrote in message
...
Having just got a new pair of Quad 989 ESL speakers due to listening to
so many people say the room and the speakers are the two most important
factors in good Hi Fi, what do I say to a friend of mine who has just
added a Naim CDS 3 player to his Naim equipment and swears by the
difference it has made.
In conclusion, two questions, first of all the importance, (or otherwise)
of the Player in a system and Secondly, what is your opinion of the new
Naim CDS 3 player.
--
Derrick Fawsitt

Whether or not the Naim CD player made a difference does rather depend on
what was there before :-) However, if we assume that whatever was there
before was also a decent quality player, then I doubt if changing to the
Naim would make all that much difference. Every CD player of any
consequence has a flat frequency response, vanishingly low distortion and
low noise, so what else is there? For several years now, A-D converters
have been of such a standard that the differences between them is
vanishingly small.

On the other hand, there is still a very considerable difference between
loudspeakers, none have a flat response or low distortion when compared to
electronics, and their dispersion characteristics can interact more or
less with the room , such that by far the greatest difference to a hi-fi
system will be inchanging the 'speakers. Congratulations on the 'speakers,
BTW, they should sound great provided you can give them plenty of air to
breath, especially behind.

Regarding your specific question about the Naim CDS3, I have no personal
experience of this player, but there was an extensive review in HFN in
October 2003, where the lab measurements were all pretty much what one
would expect except that noise was a trifle high at -93.5dB and frequency
response was down by 1.2dB at 20kHz. However, even if these figures are a
bit less than one would expect in a modern player, they are very unlikely
to be audible. Output impedance was low at 25 ohms, so there should be no
problem driving any sensible length of cable and subsequent amplifier. If
you like the look and facilities of the Naim, I can't think of any
technical reason not to buy one, other than the price.

S.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:41:43 GMT, "housetrained"
wrote:

Rubbish in, rubbish out. No matter how good the speakers are they can only
reproduce what they get. Rubbish in, rubbish out. Front end is ALWAYS the
most important.

A sub-two hundred pound Pioneer DVD player was indistinguishable from
an expensive Meridian CD player in a double-blind level matched test
according to a recent report here. (Meridian have a reputation for
producing very well engineered and sonically accurate products.)

What you say might have been true thirty years ago, but today any
competent CD/DVD player will be indistinguishable from any other. Any
differences will be due to the manufacturer deliberately distorting
the output to make in sound more attractive. This is especially true
for so called "high end" niche products, which will not have benefited
from the extensive product engineering skills of the major
manufacturers.

I am planning to get some 989s once I have moved house. However, I
will continue to use my 'cheap' Pioneer DVD player with them because
there will be no audible improvements gained from getting anything
more expensive.

BTW: If the OP is close to Southampton, I would be very interested in
having a listen to his speakers.

--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

Blimey! I am living well in the past. 30 years? Blimey.

--
John the West Ham fan


"Chris Isbell" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:41:43 GMT, "housetrained"
wrote:

Rubbish in, rubbish out. No matter how good the speakers are they can only
reproduce what they get. Rubbish in, rubbish out. Front end is ALWAYS the
most important.

A sub-two hundred pound Pioneer DVD player was indistinguishable from
an expensive Meridian CD player in a double-blind level matched test
according to a recent report here. (Meridian have a reputation for
producing very well engineered and sonically accurate products.)

What you say might have been true thirty years ago, but today any
competent CD/DVD player will be indistinguishable from any other. Any
differences will be due to the manufacturer deliberately distorting
the output to make in sound more attractive. This is especially true
for so called "high end" niche products, which will not have benefited
from the extensive product engineering skills of the major
manufacturers.

I am planning to get some 989s once I have moved house. However, I
will continue to use my 'cheap' Pioneer DVD player with them because
there will be no audible improvements gained from getting anything
more expensive.

BTW: If the OP is close to Southampton, I would be very interested in
having a listen to his speakers.

--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

In article , housetrained
wrote:
Rubbish in, rubbish out. No matter how good the speakers are they can
only reproduce what they get. Rubbish in, rubbish out. Front end is
ALWAYS the most important.

ahem I'm afraid the above is rather misleading. Shows the error of
thinking in slogans. :-)

The reality is that most CD players produce quite similar results. Whereas,
speakers differ quite a great deal. Thus, regardless of the above slogans,
experience tends to be as Serge has outlined.

Of course, if you go out of your way to deliberately play CDs that are
'rubbish' then I doubt the rest of the system will help much... except
perhaps the 'eject' button. ;-

What matters is to ensure that the entire 'chain' of components are of
decent performance. Experience is that this tends to be much easier and
cheaper to obtain with a CD player than with speakers

BTW It was convenient that you put all the quoting in your sig when you
top-posted. Saved me having to re-arrange things. Can instead simply say I
agree with Serge. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

On 2006-01-28, housetrained wrote:
Rubbish in, rubbish out. No matter how good the speakers are they can only
reproduce what they get. Rubbish in, rubbish out. Front end is ALWAYS the
most important.

I agree provided "front end" includes not only the CD player but the
musicians, their instruments, the recording venue, the microphones,
etc., up to and including the CD production and mastering as well.

The role of a CD player in that chain is rather miniscule in my
experience. I was listening to new CD players two years ago while buying
new kit. This showed up some rather small and nearly insignificant
differnces with the same "test CDs" - much smaller than the differences
in loudspeakers.

From memory the "front end is always the most important" marketing slogan
seemed to originate from a time when a certain turntable manufacturer
was trying to establish its position. That's what they would claim,
wouldn't they?

However for a CD-playing system the most important things determining
the sound quality, from my own experience, a

- The CD (the disc) and how it was produced

- The room/loudspeaker combination

After that the differences are rather small in practice.

--
John Phillips

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:21:50 +0000, Derrick Fawsitt
wrote:

Having just got a new pair of Quad 989 ESL speakers due to listening to
so many people say the room and the speakers are the two most important
factors in good Hi Fi, what do I say to a friend of mine who has just
added a Naim CDS 3 player to his Naim equipment and swears by the
difference it has made.

Tell him to stop swearing? :-)

In conclusion, two questions, first of all the importance, (or
otherwise) of the Player in a system

Pretty much essential if you want to hear music!

and Secondly, what is your opinion
of the new Naim CDS 3 player.

All good CD players sound the same. Naim players don't always come
into that category....................

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:41:43 GMT, "housetrained"
wrote:

Rubbish in, rubbish out. No matter how good the speakers are they can only
reproduce what they get. Rubbish in, rubbish out. Front end is ALWAYS the
most important.

Luckily, a great source and amplifier can now be had for less than
£1,000, leaving you the rest for the speakers.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 09:07:41 GMT, "housetrained"
wrote:

Blimey! I am living well in the past. 30 years? Blimey.

Yes, basically in the vinyl era......................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering