SET in my ways...
 

Here's an interesting and well-written article that should have the
AntiSEpTics foaming at one or more of their body orifices:

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/196wavelength/


This bit is particularly interesting:
"Then there's the interesting issue of distortion products. SETs include
even- and odd-order distortion products in their outputs (as in nature, so
to speak), while push-pull circuits cancel out even-order distortion by
design, leaving only the less musical odd-order products intact. Now
look...there's something to this. It's suggested that the sound of
single-ended triodes has much to do with their delivery-intact-of the full
spectrum of distortion products. "More distortion is better?" I hear you
ask. Well, it's less humorous than it sounds. Might "unnatural" proportions
of odd-order distortion account for part of the sound of push-pull?
Something to think about."

.... and should be read by those here who are continuing to confuse the
radically different terms 'realistic' and 'accurate'..

SET in my ways...
 

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:17:00 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


Here's an interesting and well-written article that should have the
AntiSEpTics foaming at one or more of their body orifices:

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/196wavelength/


This bit is particularly interesting:
"Then there's the interesting issue of distortion products. SETs include
even- and odd-order distortion products in their outputs (as in nature, so
to speak), while push-pull circuits cancel out even-order distortion by
design, leaving only the less musical odd-order products intact. Now
look...there's something to this. It's suggested that the sound of
single-ended triodes has much to do with their delivery-intact-of the full
spectrum of distortion products. "More distortion is better?" I hear you
ask. Well, it's less humorous than it sounds. Might "unnatural" proportions
of odd-order distortion account for part of the sound of push-pull?
Something to think about."

... and should be read by those here who are continuing to confuse the
radically different terms 'realistic' and 'accurate'..


But I hope you didn't miss this bit:

"The Tweak Gallery was full. Three Shun Mook Mpingo discs on top of
each speaker, left at 7 o'clock, right side pointed to 5. I also
placed one Mpingo on the top cover of each amp in front of the
rectifier tube, where there was some open real estate. The balance of
the room treatments were as described in June's "A Matter of Taste"

Sums up the mood of the article quite nicely.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

SET in my ways...
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Here's an interesting and well-written article that should have the
AntiSEpTics foaming at one or more of their body orifices:

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/196wavelength/


This bit is particularly interesting:
"Then there's the interesting issue of distortion products. SETs include
even- and odd-order distortion products in their outputs (as in nature, so
to speak), while push-pull circuits cancel out even-order distortion by
design, leaving only the less musical odd-order products intact. Now
look...there's something to this. It's suggested that the sound of
single-ended triodes has much to do with their delivery-intact-of the full
spectrum of distortion products. "More distortion is better?" I hear you
ask. Well, it's less humorous than it sounds. Might "unnatural"
proportions of odd-order distortion account for part of the sound of
push-pull? Something to think about."

... and should be read by those here who are continuing to confuse the
radically different terms 'realistic' and 'accurate'..

Just my mouth was foaming......

Even and odd distortion products in nature? What's he talking about? Play a
violin in the open air, what distortion does the air create that the
microphone doesn't pick up? Yes, I know air isn't linear at very high
levels, you can compress air as much as you like, but you can't rarefy more
than one atmosphere, but by the time you get to measurable let alone audible
distortion levels, you would be dead! However, whatever distortion levels
exist in the air, the microphone would pick up. So, what's he talking about?

As to the silver wire and other exotic components, come off it! If you like
the amounts of distortions coming off a SET fine, but don't pretend it's
accurate. (or realistic)

S.



S.

SET in my ways...
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

Here's an interesting and well-written article that should have the
AntiSEpTics foaming at one or more of their body orifices:

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/196wavelength/


This bit is particularly interesting: "Then there's the interesting
issue of distortion products. SETs include even- and odd-order
distortion products in their outputs (as in nature, so to speak), while
push-pull circuits cancel out even-order distortion by design, leaving
only the less musical odd-order products intact. Now look...there's
something to this. It's suggested that the sound of single-ended
triodes has much to do with their delivery-intact-of the full spectrum
of distortion products.

The problem with the above is twofold:

1) It confuses an alteration of an existing sound with the original.

2) It ignores intermod when more than one note is being played.

The "suggestion" is, I think, a fairly old one. Alas, it makes little sense
in practice... Unless the argument is simply that some people like
intermodulation distortion. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

SET in my ways...
 

"Serge Auckland" wrote


Just my mouth was foaming......

Even and odd distortion products in nature? What's he talking about? Play
a violin in the open air, what distortion does the air create that the
microphone doesn't pick up? Yes, I know air isn't linear at very high
levels, you can compress air as much as you like, but you can't rarefy
more than one atmosphere, but by the time you get to measurable let alone
audible distortion levels, you would be dead! However, whatever distortion
levels exist in the air, the microphone would pick up. So, what's he
talking about?


**** knows - I don't actually read that sort of crap, as anyone here will
tell you - I Google a key phrase, then scan-read (or Ctrl F) for salient
points relative to the topic in hand. (It's a common enough procedure used
by a few here, but I usually just point to it, I don't claim it as prior
knowledge as some others do....!! ;-)



As to the silver wire and other exotic components, come off it! If you
like the amounts of distortions coming off a SET fine, but don't pretend
it's accurate. (or realistic)


Don't hit me with the 'accuracy' stick Serge - I don't give a rat's about
accuracy over sound quality and have *never* made any claims concerning it.
I *do* know what I perceive to be more *realistic*, however....

SET in my ways...
 

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:17:00 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


Here's an interesting and well-written article that should have the
AntiSEpTics foaming at one or more of their body orifices:

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/196wavelength/


This bit is particularly interesting:
"Then there's the interesting issue of distortion products. SETs include
even- and odd-order distortion products in their outputs (as in nature, so
to speak), while push-pull circuits cancel out even-order distortion by
design, leaving only the less musical odd-order products intact. Now
look...there's something to this. It's suggested that the sound of
single-ended triodes has much to do with their delivery-intact-of the full
spectrum of distortion products. "More distortion is better?" I hear you
ask. Well, it's less humorous than it sounds. Might "unnatural" proportions
of odd-order distortion account for part of the sound of push-pull?
Something to think about."

... and should be read by those here who are continuing to confuse the
radically different terms 'realistic' and 'accurate'..

However, if you examine the distortion spectra of many good SS
amplifiers (carefully, because it's very small anyway), you frequently
find that the output distortion is dominated by the single-ended
voltage amplifier stage, so you have a decreasing low-order spectrum
dropping rapidly below the noise floor.

The difference with SETs is that you have a decreasing low-order
distortion spectrum which is well above the noise floor. This
nonlinearity also produces high levels of intermodulation distortion
which do nothing but muddy the sound.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

SET in my ways...
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 20:17:00 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


Here's an interesting and well-written article that should have the
AntiSEpTics foaming at one or more of their body orifices:

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/196wavelength/


This bit is particularly interesting:
"Then there's the interesting issue of distortion products. SETs include
even- and odd-order distortion products in their outputs (as in nature, so
to speak), while push-pull circuits cancel out even-order distortion by
design, leaving only the less musical odd-order products intact. Now
look...there's something to this. It's suggested that the sound of
single-ended triodes has much to do with their delivery-intact-of the full
spectrum of distortion products. "More distortion is better?" I hear you
ask. Well, it's less humorous than it sounds. Might "unnatural"
proportions
of odd-order distortion account for part of the sound of push-pull?
Something to think about."

... and should be read by those here who are continuing to confuse the
radically different terms 'realistic' and 'accurate'..

However, if you examine the distortion spectra of many good SS
amplifiers (carefully, because it's very small anyway), you frequently
find that the output distortion is dominated by the single-ended
voltage amplifier stage, so you have a decreasing low-order spectrum
dropping rapidly below the noise floor.

The difference with SETs is that you have a decreasing low-order
distortion spectrum which is well above the noise floor. This
nonlinearity also produces high levels of intermodulation distortion
which do nothing but muddy the sound.



There are any number of interesting sites that deal with distortion in
triodes like this one:

http://www.triodeel.com/ptnotes.htm

Who knows? One day I might even get round to reading some of them, but until
I know better I'll stick with a sound which is (IMO) anything *but*
muddy....

SET in my ways...
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Serge Auckland" wrote


Just my mouth was foaming......

Even and odd distortion products in nature? What's he talking about?
Play a violin in the open air, what distortion does the air create that
the microphone doesn't pick up? Yes, I know air isn't linear at very high
levels, you can compress air as much as you like, but you can't rarefy
more than one atmosphere, but by the time you get to measurable let alone
audible distortion levels, you would be dead! However, whatever
distortion levels exist in the air, the microphone would pick up. So,
what's he talking about?


**** knows - I don't actually read that sort of crap, as anyone here will
tell you - I Google a key phrase, then scan-read (or Ctrl F) for salient
points relative to the topic in hand. (It's a common enough procedure used
by a few here, but I usually just point to it, I don't claim it as prior
knowledge as some others do....!! ;-)



As to the silver wire and other exotic components, come off it! If you
like the amounts of distortions coming off a SET fine, but don't pretend
it's accurate. (or realistic)


Don't hit me with the 'accuracy' stick Serge - I don't give a rat's about
accuracy over sound quality and have *never* made any claims concerning
it. I *do* know what I perceive to be more *realistic*, however....

Sorry, but I *was* foaming a bit. I was aiming my comments at the writer.

S.

SET in my ways...
 

"Serge Auckland" wrote


As to the silver wire and other exotic components, come off it! If you
like the amounts of distortions coming off a SET fine, but don't pretend
it's accurate. (or realistic)


Don't hit me with the 'accuracy' stick Serge - I don't give a rat's about
accuracy over sound quality and have *never* made any claims concerning
it. I *do* know what I perceive to be more *realistic*, however....

Sorry, but I *was* foaming a bit. I was aiming my comments at the writer.


:-)


As I said to you - not being a designer or manufacturer, I'm much more
interested in the 'sound' than the signal per se., but obviously, I *do*
regard the sound I'm getting these days with SETs as being more *realistic*
(as well as more pleasant) or I quite simply wouldn't bother with them.....