Design a better analogue system
 

Given that technology has move on a bit since the record player (and the
CD player!) were developed, would it be possible to product a domestic
_analogue_ audio system which is better quality than those which
currently exist?

This imagined system, at the very least, must have:-

* flat response (none of this RIAA curve stuff)
* better dynamic range (at least 20 dB higher than vinyl)
* better S/N ratio
* less distotion i.e. no pitch variations, rumble, surface noise etc

and probably a few others than I've not thought of.

Nice to haves would be durability and convenience but let's not get our
hopes up.

Basically, you have carte blanche and this imagined system does not need
to be backwardly compatible with any analogue format.

How do you do it?


--
RobH
The future's dim, the future's mono.

Design a better analogue system
 

In article , RobH
wrote:
Given that technology has move on a bit since the record player (and the
CD player!) were developed, would it be possible to product a domestic
_analogue_ audio system which is better quality than those which
currently exist?

This imagined system, at the very least, must have:-

* flat response (none of this RIAA curve stuff) *

Assuming you require a flat response may make it very difficult to make a
system that even matches standard LP. There are good reasons for employing
an equalisation curve. The RIAA is arguably not the 'best choice', but it
is arguably better than 'flat'. :-)


better dynamic
range (at least 20 dB higher than vinyl) * better S/N ratio * less
distotion i.e. no pitch variations, rumble, surface noise etc

and probably a few others than I've not thought of.

Nice to haves would be durability and convenience but let's not get our
hopes up.

Basically, you have carte blanche and this imagined system does not need
to be backwardly compatible with any analogue format.

How do you do it?

The problem is that LP's limitations really tend to stem from the physical
properties of real materals, and the limitations of mass manufacture. Thus
the noise level tends to come either from the sizes of real atoms /
molecules in an ideally made LP, or from poor manufacture and handling in
many real cases. Thus physics sets a minimum level which may then not be
reached due to the maker not bothering, or deciding the results would be
too expensive.

Similarly, you could have a higher dynamic range, etc, but by sacrificing
playing time, and/or making the disc far larger. (Required to cater for the
larger signal amplitudes and avoid one rotation of the groove not
intersecting its neighbours.) Or perhaps using a cylinder which would be
quite long.

If you were willing to use 'LP's that were much larger, were made of a more
expensive material by a more costly process[1], and did not play for very
long per side, you could expect to get better results. But I wonder how
many people would wish to bother... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

[1] diamond shaped by nanotech placement of the atoms might work very well,
and resist wear and damage. Might be a tad expensive, though. ;-

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Design a better analogue system
 

I'd suggest that analogue video LaserDisc technology be shrunk down to
the size of a CD, and have a digital control track, and an analogue
music track on a silver 5" disc.

Or why not 2" tape for the home?

Graeme


"RobH" wrote in message ...
Given that technology has move on a bit since the record player (and the
CD player!) were developed, would it be possible to product a domestic
_analogue_ audio system which is better quality than those which
currently exist?

This imagined system, at the very least, must have:-

* flat response (none of this RIAA curve stuff)
* better dynamic range (at least 20 dB higher than vinyl)
* better S/N ratio
* less distotion i.e. no pitch variations, rumble, surface noise etc

and probably a few others than I've not thought of.

Nice to haves would be durability and convenience but let's not get our
hopes up.

Basically, you have carte blanche and this imagined system does not need
to be backwardly compatible with any analogue format.

How do you do it?

Design a better analogue system
 

"Graeme Nattress" wrote in message
om...
I'd suggest that analogue video LaserDisc technology be shrunk down to
the size of a CD, and have a digital control track, and an analogue
music track on a silver 5" disc.

Or why not 2" tape for the home?

Graeme

As long as they improve the longevity of tape based media.
Recording pure analogue at a molecular level seems like a good idea but I
haven't a clue if its feasible...... hey I've got all of Beethoven's
Symphonies in this......pin-head..'give him another pill and tighten the
restraints just to be sure' ;-)

Design a better analogue system
 

"RobH" wrote in message ...
Given that technology has move on a bit since the record player (and the
CD player!) were developed, would it be possible to product a domestic
_analogue_ audio system which is better quality than those which
currently exist?

This imagined system, at the very least, must have:-

* flat response (none of this RIAA curve stuff)
* better dynamic range (at least 20 dB higher than vinyl)
* better S/N ratio
* less distotion i.e. no pitch variations, rumble, surface noise etc

(...)

How do you do it?

Well, I propose a system consisting of small "pits" pressed into some
appropriate substrate. These pits could be read by a "laser". The
"digital" output might be converted to analogue using a
"digital-to-analogue analytical engine", or perhaps even one of those
new-fangled "solid-state' devices. Such a system should meet all the
above requirements.

I also believe that the medium could be made somewhat smaller than a
record.

I admit that this is a far-fetched idea though; clearly the stuff of
science friction. Much more likely is vine-L, where the audio signal
is represented by the size and distribution of grapes on vitis
vinifera.

Steve.

Design a better analogue system
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , RobH
wrote:
Given that technology has move on a bit since the record player (and the
CD player!) were developed, would it be possible to product a domestic
_analogue_ audio system which is better quality than those which
currently exist?

This imagined system, at the very least, must have:-

* flat response (none of this RIAA curve stuff) *

Assuming you require a flat response may make it very difficult to make a
system that even matches standard LP. There are good reasons for employing
an equalisation curve. The RIAA is arguably not the 'best choice', but it
is arguably better than 'flat'. :-)


better dynamic
range (at least 20 dB higher than vinyl) * better S/N ratio * less
distotion i.e. no pitch variations, rumble, surface noise etc

and probably a few others than I've not thought of.

Nice to haves would be durability and convenience but let's not get our
hopes up.

Basically, you have carte blanche and this imagined system does not need
to be backwardly compatible with any analogue format.

How do you do it?

The problem is that LP's limitations really tend to stem from the physical
properties of real materals, and the limitations of mass manufacture. Thus
the noise level tends to come either from the sizes of real atoms /
molecules in an ideally made LP, or from poor manufacture and handling in
many real cases. Thus physics sets a minimum level which may then not be
reached due to the maker not bothering, or deciding the results would be
too expensive.

Similarly, you could have a higher dynamic range, etc, but by sacrificing
playing time, and/or making the disc far larger. (Required to cater for
the
larger signal amplitudes and avoid one rotation of the groove not
intersecting its neighbours.) Or perhaps using a cylinder which would be
quite long.

If you were willing to use 'LP's that were much larger, were made of a
more
expensive material by a more costly process[1], and did not play for very
long per side, you could expect to get better results. But I wonder how
many people would wish to bother... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

[1] diamond shaped by nanotech placement of the atoms might work very
well,
and resist wear and damage. Might be a tad expensive, though. ;-

--
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Hi Jim,

A while back I posted re bringing back the benefits of the cylinder i.e.
parallel tracking & positive cylinder clamping. The recorded cylinder may
be vinyl. I'm sure a lot of TT R&D could be tranferred to a modern version
of the cylinder playback unit. The cylinder speed could be higher the 33
rpm and the vinyl cylinder size large as vinyl folk suffer for their art
anyway (-:
Trouble is...there is only one side.

Mike

Design a better analogue system
 

"RobH" wrote in message


Given that technology has move on a bit since the record player (and
the CD player!) were developed, would it be possible to product a
domestic _analogue_ audio system which is better quality than those
which currently exist?

This imagined system, at the very least, must have:-

* flat response (none of this RIAA curve stuff)
* better dynamic range (at least 20 dB higher than vinyl)
* better S/N ratio
* less distotion i.e. no pitch variations, rumble, surface noise
etc

and probably a few others than I've not thought of.

Nice to haves would be durability and convenience but let's not get
our hopes up.

Basically, you have carte blanche and this imagined system does not
need to be backwardly compatible with any analogue format.

How do you do it?

High speed, half track, magnetic tape. The last generation of analog mag
tape equipment was almost sonically perfect, and met or came close to most
if not all of your goals.

Design a better analogue system
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"RobH" wrote in message


Given that technology has move on a bit since the record player (and
the CD player!) were developed, would it be possible to product a
domestic _analogue_ audio system which is better quality than those
which currently exist?

This imagined system, at the very least, must have:-

* flat response (none of this RIAA curve stuff)
* better dynamic range (at least 20 dB higher than vinyl)
* better S/N ratio
* less distotion i.e. no pitch variations, rumble, surface noise
etc

and probably a few others than I've not thought of.

Nice to haves would be durability and convenience but let's not get
our hopes up.

Basically, you have carte blanche and this imagined system does not
need to be backwardly compatible with any analogue format.

How do you do it?

High speed, half track, magnetic tape. The last generation of analog mag
tape equipment was almost sonically perfect, and met or came close to
most
if not all of your goals.


High speed, do you mean 30 ips or more? Just curious on many hours would
you expect from modern head/s at HS.

Mike

Design a better analogue system
 

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"RobH" wrote in message


Given that technology has move on a bit since the record player (and
the CD player!) were developed, would it be possible to product a
domestic _analogue_ audio system which is better quality than those
which currently exist?

This imagined system, at the very least, must have:-

* flat response (none of this RIAA curve stuff)
* better dynamic range (at least 20 dB higher than vinyl)
* better S/N ratio
* less distotion i.e. no pitch variations, rumble, surface noise
etc

and probably a few others than I've not thought of.

Nice to haves would be durability and convenience but let's not get
our hopes up.

Basically, you have carte blanche and this imagined system does not
need to be backwardly compatible with any analogue format.

How do you do it?

High speed, half track, magnetic tape. The last generation of analog
mag tape equipment was almost sonically perfect, and met or came
close to most if not all of your goals.


High speed, do you mean 30 ips or more?

15 ips is fine.

Just curious on many hours would you expect from modern head/s at HS.

I have no idea. Not part of the origional parameters. Probably 100's of
hours with some tweaking to compensate for minor wear.

Design a better analogue system
 

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:01:14 +0000 (UTC), "RobH"
wrote:

Given that technology has move on a bit since the record player (and the
CD player!) were developed, would it be possible to product a domestic
_analogue_ audio system which is better quality than those which
currently exist?

This imagined system, at the very least, must have:-

* flat response (none of this RIAA curve stuff)
* better dynamic range (at least 20 dB higher than vinyl)
* better S/N ratio
* less distotion i.e. no pitch variations, rumble, surface noise etc

and probably a few others than I've not thought of.

Nice to haves would be durability and convenience but let's not get our
hopes up.

Basically, you have carte blanche and this imagined system does not need
to be backwardly compatible with any analogue format.

How do you do it?

It's called a Revox B77..................

BTW, S/N ratio and dynamic range are the same thing.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering