On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:25:21 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

Handwaving were ne'er so lyrical. Unfortunately we are still no nearer
to a clue as to what Slam is...

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

Slam is a LOUD setting on an Orban FM radio processor!, that's wot it
is!..
--
Tony Sayer

Now THIS I am prepared to believe! (I almost said happy to believe,
but I caught myself just in time)

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article , Keith G
wrote:
[snip]

If anyone *doesn't* understand what's usually meant by simple phrases
like 'slam', air', 'soundstaging', warmth', 'colour', 'tone', texture'
etc. then they must live in an isolated little world utterly devoid of
poetry, imagery and the like.

[snip]


Thus, I would tender:

'Slam', in the context of sounds obtained from an amplifier/speaker
combination (you need both) - if you ever heard it yourself, you would
know what it was.....

Alas, I have two problems with the above... :-)

The first is that I am not sure what it means when someone says, for
example, that an *amplifier* has 'slam'. I may have an impression of what
a characteristic of a given *sound* I might call 'slam', but this is
referring to the sound, not the amplifier. Given the dependence upon the
nature of the signal being presented to the amp, and the effects of
speakers, room, etc, I am doubtful of how an amp can be said to have 'slam'
other than simply saying it has a given frequency response, or something
like that.

The second is that my own personl impression of what seems to be 'slam'
might be quite different to some-one else's.

Hence when used in a review, or similar, about an amp, I am not really sure
what it tells me beyond guessing the amp can provide the required power at
low frequencies to drive the speakers in use for the test waveforms
employed to sound as the reviewer might expect.

FWIW I've finally got around to adding a subwoofer to the living room
system (mainly for DVD) which uses LS3/5A's. This means I now get much
better low bass extension and this has a particularly noticable effect in
the 20-40 Hz range. I might then say that ensuring the 20-40Hz range is
present at the appropriate level now means I get more 'slam' than before
when listening to a soundtrack like LOTR or whatever. However I'm not sure
this is what reviewers mean, nor how it might telate to an amplifier beyond
saying it can reproduce LF satisfactorily...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Keith G
wrote:
[snip]

If anyone *doesn't* understand what's usually meant by simple phrases
like 'slam', air', 'soundstaging', warmth', 'colour', 'tone', texture'
etc. then they must live in an isolated little world utterly devoid of
poetry, imagery and the like.

[snip]


Thus, I would tender:

'Slam', in the context of sounds obtained from an amplifier/speaker
combination (you need both) - if you ever heard it yourself, you would
know what it was.....

Alas, I have two problems with the above... :-)

The first is that I am not sure what it means when someone says, for
example, that an *amplifier* has 'slam'. I may have an impression of what
a characteristic of a given *sound* I might call 'slam', but this is
referring to the sound, not the amplifier. Given the dependence upon the
nature of the signal being presented to the amp, and the effects of
speakers, room, etc, I am doubtful of how an amp can be said to have 'slam'
other than simply saying it has a given frequency response, or something
like that.

The second is that my own personl impression of what seems to be 'slam'
might be quite different to some-one else's.

Hence when used in a review, or similar, about an amp, I am not really sure
what it tells me beyond guessing the amp can provide the required power at
low frequencies to drive the speakers in use for the test waveforms
employed to sound as the reviewer might expect.

FWIW I've finally got around to adding a subwoofer to the living room
system (mainly for DVD) which uses LS3/5A's. This means I now get much
better low bass extension and this has a particularly noticable effect in
the 20-40 Hz range. I might then say that ensuring the 20-40Hz range is
present at the appropriate level now means I get more 'slam' than before
when listening to a soundtrack like LOTR or whatever. However I'm not sure
this is what reviewers mean, nor how it might telate to an amplifier beyond
saying it can reproduce LF satisfactorily...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Kurt Hamster
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:04:10 +0100, Don Pearce used
to say...

Handwaving were ne'er so lyrical. Unfortunately we are still no nearer
to a clue as to what Slam is...

Do you know what a slammed door sounds like?

Yes?

I think so. However the snag here for me is that the sound seems to vary
from one door to another, and with where I and standing w.r.t. to it, etc.
Hence I'm afraid don't find it very precise as a definition.

Well how would _you_ describe the type of sound it makes?

Thud? :-)

Or would you just find it easier to say the sound has some slam about it?

Or if you wanted to be pedantic how about, fast attack, no decay, no
sustain and a sharp release?

I find your explanation interesting as I would up until now *not* have said
that the above is what reviewers mean by the word 'slam'. I had thought it
meant that a particular LF band was present, and in the right proportion
with the rest of the signal. You may be right, though. However if so, it
perhaps shows how careful people have to be when using such terms as I, for
one, formed the view that they were describing something quite different to
what you say in you final paragraph above!

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Kurt Hamster
wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:04:10 +0100, Don Pearce used
to say...

Handwaving were ne'er so lyrical. Unfortunately we are still no nearer
to a clue as to what Slam is...

Do you know what a slammed door sounds like?

Yes?

I think so. However the snag here for me is that the sound seems to vary
from one door to another, and with where I and standing w.r.t. to it, etc.
Hence I'm afraid don't find it very precise as a definition.

Well how would _you_ describe the type of sound it makes?

Thud? :-)

Or would you just find it easier to say the sound has some slam about it?

Or if you wanted to be pedantic how about, fast attack, no decay, no
sustain and a sharp release?

I find your explanation interesting as I would up until now *not* have said
that the above is what reviewers mean by the word 'slam'. I had thought it
meant that a particular LF band was present, and in the right proportion
with the rest of the signal. You may be right, though. However if so, it
perhaps shows how careful people have to be when using such terms as I, for
one, formed the view that they were describing something quite different to
what you say in you final paragraph above!

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"The Old Fogey" wrote in message
om...
Can anyone define 'Slam' in the context of audio power amps?

**Tell you what to do:

1) Find a nice pair of difficult to drive, full range loudspeakers. A pair
of AR9s, some old Infinity's (Kappa 9, RS1.5, RS2.5, etc), Linn Isobarics,
Duntech Sovereigns, Crown Princes, B&W 801, 802 (et al), KEF 105, 104 (et
al). would all be suitable candidates.
2) Now find two, similarly powered amplifiers. One, a decently designed BJT
amp, with a flat frequency response and adequate current delivery for the
above-mentioned speakers. Rotel, Krell, Arcam all make suitable products.
Now find a low bias MOSFET amp. Perreaux and several other manufacturers
make suitable products.
3) Listen to some music which has fast, dynamic, percussive sounds.

After this, you will probably understand what I mean by the term: 'slam'.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"The Old Fogey" wrote in message
om...
Can anyone define 'Slam' in the context of audio power amps?

**Tell you what to do:

1) Find a nice pair of difficult to drive, full range loudspeakers. A pair
of AR9s, some old Infinity's (Kappa 9, RS1.5, RS2.5, etc), Linn Isobarics,
Duntech Sovereigns, Crown Princes, B&W 801, 802 (et al), KEF 105, 104 (et
al). would all be suitable candidates.
2) Now find two, similarly powered amplifiers. One, a decently designed BJT
amp, with a flat frequency response and adequate current delivery for the
above-mentioned speakers. Rotel, Krell, Arcam all make suitable products.
Now find a low bias MOSFET amp. Perreaux and several other manufacturers
make suitable products.
3) Listen to some music which has fast, dynamic, percussive sounds.

After this, you will probably understand what I mean by the term: 'slam'.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:48:00 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:06:49 +0100, Don Pearce used
to say...

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:50:32 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:04:10 +0100, Don Pearce used
to say...

Handwaving were ne'er so lyrical. Unfortunately we are still no nearer
to a clue as to what Slam is...

Do you know what a slammed door sounds like?

Yes?

Well how would _you_ describe the type of sound it makes? Or would you
just find it easier to say the sound has some slam about it?

Or if you wanted to be pedantic how about, fast attack, no decay, no
sustain and a sharp release?

Well, if I were listening to recordings of doors being slammed, then
slam is what I would want to hear.

My listening is much more to do with music - without slamming doors.

So I was correct when I said "if you want to be pedantic"

You might have been if that was what you said - but it wasn't. What
you said was "Or if you wanted to be pedantic how about, fast attack,
no decay, no sustain and a sharp release?"

Rather wide of the mark, you must agree. If you feel the inclination
to misquote yourself, at least have the smarts not to include the
correct version in the post.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 21:48:00 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:06:49 +0100, Don Pearce used
to say...

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:50:32 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 17:04:10 +0100, Don Pearce used
to say...

Handwaving were ne'er so lyrical. Unfortunately we are still no nearer
to a clue as to what Slam is...

Do you know what a slammed door sounds like?

Yes?

Well how would _you_ describe the type of sound it makes? Or would you
just find it easier to say the sound has some slam about it?

Or if you wanted to be pedantic how about, fast attack, no decay, no
sustain and a sharp release?

Well, if I were listening to recordings of doors being slammed, then
slam is what I would want to hear.

My listening is much more to do with music - without slamming doors.

So I was correct when I said "if you want to be pedantic"

You might have been if that was what you said - but it wasn't. What
you said was "Or if you wanted to be pedantic how about, fast attack,
no decay, no sustain and a sharp release?"

Rather wide of the mark, you must agree. If you feel the inclination
to misquote yourself, at least have the smarts not to include the
correct version in the post.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

Trevor Wilson wrote:


Can anyone define 'Slam' in the context of audio power amps?


**Tell you what to do:

1) Find a nice pair of difficult to drive, full range loudspeakers. A pair
of AR9s, some old Infinity's (Kappa 9, RS1.5, RS2.5, etc), Linn Isobarics,
Duntech Sovereigns, Crown Princes, B&W 801, 802 (et al), KEF 105, 104 (et
al). would all be suitable candidates.
2) Now find two, similarly powered amplifiers. One, a decently designed BJT
amp, with a flat frequency response and adequate current delivery for the
above-mentioned speakers. Rotel, Krell, Arcam all make suitable products.
Now find a low bias MOSFET amp. Perreaux and several other manufacturers
make suitable products.
3) Listen to some music which has fast, dynamic, percussive sounds.

After this, you will probably understand what I mean by the term: 'slam'.


Now I understand!

Slam is an amplifier/speaker combination working as designed,
without being overdriven.

Perhaps you could define a lack of slam.

Roger.