Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R. Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

I haven't made a study of Rochlin, as you have. I perused the site,
particularly the info sectionl. While I did not purposely examine the info
in order to validate it, it generally impressed me as useful; the sort of
stuff that many audiophiles who aren't bookish gain access to via Rochlin's
site.

Here in the U.S., there has been considerable law relating to the
truthfulness of advertising claims. "Bigger", "better", "more powerful",
"more effective", even "clinically proven", have been given somewhat of a
waiver by our legal system from standards of common discourse. Hence, we
tolerate advertising balderdash that would be considered offensive if told
by one person to another. In one case, the contents of a college catalog
were used as evidence against the college. The college successfully defended
with the claim that the introduction to the college catalog was
"advertising" rather than "contractual promises."

Since English and American common law are still joined at the hip to a
surprising degree, with civil verdicts shared as precedent in both
countries, the U.K. is not immune to this. In fact, there is a rather rude
colloquialism in the U.K. that actually was the slogan of a laxative --
"gets around the bend", which was modified to "he's gone around the bend."

All this is as puzzling to me as it would be to someone hearing it for the
first time. If Mr. Rochlin's activities are not sanctioned by everyone on
the personal level, the courts have endorsed much or all of it as one of the
primary engines of Capitalism -- advertising. According to capitalists,
encouragement of consumption is vital to prosperity.

All but the most ardent capitalists are torn between disgust and admiration
of all things capital. Capitalism is weak on moral content, but strong on
results.

I don't trust any review anymore. My standards have become too internal for
that. Perhaps you, too?

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
Rochlin: far from "helping audiophiles" as you claim,
you are a parasite on high fidelity, pushing bland and
incompetent **** because the makers pay you for
adverising on your silly site and for the number of
foolish audiophiles who read your one-sided
travesties of reviews. You are a sales hack, pure
and simple, but one without the balls to open up
an emporium on the high street. --- Andre Jute

This reminisces the "art vs. money" debate.

Eh? I can understand that a logger might object. But you're mistaken if
you think my objection to Rochlin and his Enjoythemusic.com ripoff is
on the grounds of art or even journalism, though it is wretched
journalism, mere paperhanging for advertising, pandering to
manufacturers too cheap to afford real advertising. Nah, here I speak
as a DIYer and on grounds of morality.

Look, audio has from the very
beginning been very commercial.

Absolutely no objection. On my home base, RAT, most of the actually
useful guys have some commercial interest in electronics or directly in
audio. Without their knowledge, the newsgroup would fall down.

But Rochlin doesn't fit that definition. He is a know-nothing. If he
didn't make a buck leading audiophile fashion victims to the slaughter,
he'd make a buck leading jeans-snobs or watch-snobs to the slaughter.
Rochlin is an ignorant shill.

My personal opinion is that Mr. Rochlin's
obvious, and not criminal, desire to make money is a tolerable tradeoff
for
what he provides the community.

The question is what does he provide to the community. My opinion is
clear enough above: nothing for the community, dollars in Rochlin's
pocket for Rochlin.

Or does Mr. Jute think that the lives of audio entrepreneurs should
patten
after Kerouac, Burroughs, or Jackson Pollock?

Please God, no! Your very suggestion tells us that you don't know
anything at all about these people. I'm sure that even Rochlin, whom I
dislike intensely for his basic dishonesty, his uselessness, for being
a parasite, bathes more often than that trio of scroungers and liars.
But there is a difference between Rochlin and that trio: they had
talent; Rochlin's only "talent" is quivering like a puppy-dog to be
loved so that we will give him tidbits off our table.

Rochlin is not "an audio entrepreneur". He is a publicity flack, a
paper hanger for advertiser, grubbing trash. It is an impertinence for
Rochlin to claim that his Enjoythemusic.com ripoff "helps audiophiles".
It helps no one except Steven R. Rochlin, who next week will be pushing
different crap while the innocent is stuck with the crap he equally
willy-nilly pushed last week.

Check out who advertises on Rochlin's site. Then check out who gets the
best reviews and the constant mentions. Draw a conclusion. I have. See
above.

Andre Jute
"You can wait 'til more important things get taken care of."
-- Ned Carlson of TubeZone to a Customer who already waited *14 weeks*
for his tubes.


Andre Jute wrote:

Rochlin: far from "helping audiophiles" as you claim,
you are a parasite on high fidelity, pushing bland and
incompetent **** because the makers pay you for
adverising on your silly site and for the number of
foolish audiophiles who read your one-sided
travesties of reviews. You are a sales hack, pure
and simple, but one without the balls to open up
an emporium on the high street. --- Andre Jute

Hi Everyone,

Enjoy the Music.com's July edition celebrates our 11th year of
helping
audiophiles all around the globe with informative articles, show
reports,
equipment reviews plus much more! New reviews appear in both Superior
Audio
and the Review Magazine, with critical assessments of the Audioengine 5

powered monitors, silver cable comparo, Hagerman Technology Chime tubed
DAC,
Role Audio Sampan speakers, Sound Dead Steel Isoplatmat, Stereovox XV2
cable, Aural Acoustics Model B speakers, plus ModWright Instrument's
Denon
3910 universal player and SWL 9.0 SE preamplifier.

http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com

Enjoy the Music,

Steven R. Rochlin
http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com

Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R. Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

Robert said:

All this is as puzzling to me as it would be to someone hearing it for the
first time. If Mr. Rochlin's activities are not sanctioned by everyone on
the personal level, the courts have endorsed much or all of it as one of the
primary engines of Capitalism -- advertising. According to capitalists,
encouragement of consumption is vital to prosperity.

I think Jute's point was that Rochy doesn't present his plugs as adverts,
but rather as (impartialish) reviews. If he's just a shill, his role should
be made clear.

I don't trust any review anymore. My standards have become too internal for
that. Perhaps you, too?

Sad to say, squawking about shilling is a behavior evinced most often by
the Audio 'Borgs.




--
A day without Krooger is like a day radiation poisoning.

Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R. Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

I guess I screen so much of this out, I tend not to take note of it.. If
that is the situation, it's not right. But as in the college catalog case,
one is not necessarily required to specifically identify material as
advertising in order to gain protection from fraud-based complaint. I
believe the legal standard is whether a normally intelligent person would be
able to make the distinction.

Is this the case with Rochlin's site?

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Robert said:

All this is as puzzling to me as it would be to someone hearing it for
the
first time. If Mr. Rochlin's activities are not sanctioned by everyone on
the personal level, the courts have endorsed much or all of it as one of
the
primary engines of Capitalism -- advertising. According to capitalists,
encouragement of consumption is vital to prosperity.

I think Jute's point was that Rochy doesn't present his plugs as adverts,
but rather as (impartialish) reviews. If he's just a shill, his role
should
be made clear.

I don't trust any review anymore. My standards have become too internal
for
that. Perhaps you, too?

Sad to say, squawking about shilling is a behavior evinced most often by
the Audio 'Borgs.




--
A day without Krooger is like a day radiation poisoning.

Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R. Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...

Alan Rutlidge wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
Rochlin: far from "helping audiophiles" as you claim,
you are a parasite on high fidelity, pushing bland and
incompetent **** because the makers pay you for
adverising on your silly site and for the number of
foolish audiophiles who read your one-sided
travesties of reviews. You are a sales hack, pure
and simple, but one without the balls to open up
an emporium on the high street. --- Andre Jute

Hi Everyone,

Enjoy the Music.com's July edition celebrates our 11th year of
helping
audiophiles all around the globe with informative articles, show
reports,
equipment reviews plus much more! New reviews appear in both Superior
Audio
and the Review Magazine, with critical assessments of the Audioengine 5

powered monitors, silver cable comparo, Hagerman Technology Chime tubed
DAC,
Role Audio Sampan speakers, Sound Dead Steel Isoplatmat, Stereovox XV2
cable, Aural Acoustics Model B speakers, plus ModWright Instrument's
Denon
3910 universal player and SWL 9.0 SE preamplifier.

http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com

Enjoy the Music,

Steven R. Rochlin
http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com

Andre,
Didn't you start this crap thread over at rec.audio.uk (or was it
rec.audio.tubes) ?

How is it a "crap thread" to discuss the morality of a paper hanger for
advertisers like Steven R. Rochlin of the Enjoythemusic.com scam
delivering to his paymasters favourable reviews for goods that are
widely known to have no sonic effect whatsoever?

Andre, grow up. The Internet and Usenet is full of scams. So this is just
another one hey?
Surely you have better things to talk about than exposing this alledged scam
artist?
There are plenty of people out there who would claim to be offering advice.
Some of it good, some of it bad, and a whole swag of in between stuff.
Andre, where do you see yourself in this scheme of things?



Or do you view the morality of scam artists using the free airwaves to
line their pockets the same way you view the morality of child sex
tourism to South East Asia?

And what might that view be Andre? Perhaps you might care to elaborate on
this piece of crap too?
You obviously have me at a disadvantage as I know nothing of the latter.



Who cares in any case.

I do, obviously. So would you, if you had any brains. But if you don't,
like the good Lord Valve says, "It ain't rocket science. No likee, no
readee."

No problem with you "caring" Andre. Ever considered your approach to the
subject is rather more confronting than constructive?


So the OP probably didn't put COMM: in the post
header.

You haven't read the thread or, if you did, you are a functional
illiterate (or if not, your brains have been eaten by syphilis). My
objection is not to moderate advertising of Rochlin's scam-site on the
audio conferences. My objection is to his dishonest claim to "help
audiophiles". My objection is to Rochlin supporting dishonest
saleshacks. My objection is that useless greedbag Rochlin posturing as
a moral arbiter. That's like telling the Mafia they can appoint the
Police Commissioner, inviting gangrene into the usenet.

So not only are you the Usenet Police, you also do physical and mental
diagnosis but also pathology by proxy. How interesting.


Haven't you learnt to ignore this?

See above. You're another unsophisticated rustic with an on-off switch
in his mind who insists everything must be one way or the other. The
world isn't like that. There are shades. We tolerate a certain amount
of Rochlin-like corruption in the system because it isn't worth the
unpleasantness of excising it. But that jumped up street-trader Steven
R Rochlin is now getting above himself and has thereby made it worth
the unpleasantness of cleaning him out like pus from an abcess.

Hmmm.... so it would appear that you intend to graduate from diagnosis by
proxy to surgery.
My, my you are indeed a talented chappie aren't you?


Andre Jute
"You can wait 'til more important things get taken care of."
-- Ned Carlson of TubeZone to a Customer who already waited *14 weeks*
for his tubes.

Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R. Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

soundhaspriority wrote:
I haven't made a study of Rochlin, as you have. I perused the site,
particularly the info sectionl. While I did not purposely examine the info
in order to validate it, it generally impressed me as useful; the sort of
stuff that many audiophiles who aren't bookish gain access to via Rochlin's
site.

First of all, we in Europe have a higher expectation of reviews than
Americans. (It is a subtext of much of what John Atkinson writes; much
of the controversy he is involved in, away from the pseudo-scientific
crank fringe of Krueger etc, arises from the fact that he is an
Englishman with much higher expectations.) Secondly, the laws in Europe
are much different. Thirdly, your analysis of American law and practice
below is at variance with the reality of practice.

Here in the U.S., there has been considerable law relating to the
truthfulness of advertising claims. "Bigger", "better", "more powerful",
"more effective", even "clinically proven", have been given somewhat of a
waiver by our legal system from standards of common discourse. Hence, we
tolerate advertising balderdash that would be considered offensive if told
by one person to another. In one case, the contents of a college catalog
were used as evidence against the college. The college successfully defended
with the claim that the introduction to the college catalog was
"advertising" rather than "contractual promises."

But neither US law, nor local AAAA codes of practice, nor for that
matter codes of practice enforced by the major media, permit "passing
off", the pretense that one thing is in fact another thing. That is why
you find outright paid-for newspaper advertising supplements, when
dressed up as editorial matter, headed with the word "ADVERTISEMENT" or
"Advertising Supplement" on each page.

In the case of Steven R. Rochlin's EnjoytheMusic.com paid advertising
is clearly dressed up as independent advertising matter. That is
passing off. That is deceit for gain.

Since English and American common law are still joined at the hip to a
surprising degree, with civil verdicts shared as precedent in both
countries, the U.K. is not immune to this. In fact, there is a rather rude
colloquialism in the U.K. that actually was the slogan of a laxative --
"gets around the bend", which was modified to "he's gone around the bend."

The similarities are deceptive. In the UK an advertiser will get away
with none of the bigger and better examples you mentioned above.
European law effectively comes down to a challenge to advertisers to
prove all factual claims and in some cases implied factual claims. Note
that it is the law that issues the challenge; there is no need to wait
for a competitor or consumer to lodge a complaint; false advertising is
illegal and the state acts on behalf of the common weal. In practice,
long before the state acts, the professional bodies have acted,
precisely as in the US example above where no one in the print media
can get away with publishing an advertisement dressed up as editorial
without announcing it. (In most countries the sanction works through
capitalist means, incidentally: what happens is that after all other
remedies are exhausted, membership of the pro body is withdrawn, and
with it the right to get credit and to withold a fixed percentage of
the payment as the "agency" fee, which is the income of the
intermediaries. That usually suffices to close down the transgressor
because we are talking about interest for 90 days on many hundreds of
millions, and about 12-16.5 per cent of the many hundreds of millions
which are the ad agent's fees. Unfortunately the internet does not yet
have professional standards so there is no one to sanction the likes of
Rochlin when they transgress decency.)

All this is as puzzling to me as it would be to someone hearing it for the
first time. If Mr. Rochlin's activities are not sanctioned by everyone on
the personal level, the courts have endorsed much or all of it as one of the
primary engines of Capitalism -- advertising. According to capitalists,
encouragement of consumption is vital to prosperity.

I made my early career in advertising. I still write very technical
books on communications psychology and reprographics (a part of the
graphic arts) for the communications trades, of which advertising is a
substantial part. I believe implicitly in the value of advertising to
reduce unit costs my maximising distribution, the key mechanism of
capitalism.

However, the value of honest advertising is demeaned when people like
Rochlin tries to pretend advertising is impartial editorial. Rochlin's
activities at Enjoythemusic.shill devastate the credibility of a wider
audience, all for Rochlin's personal profit. He makes work for the rest
of us to recover that good faith which advertising would enjoy, but for
the activities of Rochlin and others like him.

All but the most ardent capitalists are torn between disgust and admiration
of all things capital. Capitalism is weak on moral content, but strong on
results.

That's bull****. The morality of the hidden hand is merely poorly
understood. As a young intellectual, I felt as you describe above,
terribly ambivalent. Then I went to Russia to lecture on the marketing
uses of statistics, during Brezhnev's little perestroika of the later
1960s. I came away wondering how anyone in his right mind could be
anti-capitalist. There are no examples, none, period, of central
planning working. The only alternative is capitalism. (The so-called
welfare state, often described as modified mixed-economy socialism, is
no such thing; it is modified capitalism and, what's more, a very
nation-state sort of capitalism at its root, as can be seen by studying
the first welfare state, Bismarck's Prussia, and the following that
through the Liberal founders of the British model system which in a
cleaned-up form operates in Germany and elsewhere in Europe today.)

I don't trust any review anymore. My standards have become too internal for
that. Perhaps you, too?

Yes, of course. But this isn't about whether two sophisticated
audiophiles are taken in by Rochlin's greedy crap. It isn't even about
those less sophisticated whom Rochlin leads to the slaughter at the
hands of paying pushers of placebo "audiophile" fashion-of-the-week
crap. This is about the fundamental dishonesty of Rochlin claiming to
"help audiophiles". In Europe he would investigated and brought up
before an enquiry for lying that he "helps audiophiles" when all he
does is "help himself line his pockets". That is so gross a
transgression of honesty that it alone would be enough to condemn
Rochlin and Enjoythemusic.ripoff, even without all his other deceits
and dishonesties.

Andre Jute

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...

soundhaspriority wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
Rochlin: far from "helping audiophiles" as you claim,
you are a parasite on high fidelity, pushing bland and
incompetent **** because the makers pay you for
adverising on your silly site and for the number of
foolish audiophiles who read your one-sided
travesties of reviews. You are a sales hack, pure
and simple, but one without the balls to open up
an emporium on the high street. --- Andre Jute

This reminisces the "art vs. money" debate.

Eh? I can understand that a logger might object. But you're mistaken if
you think my objection to Rochlin and his Enjoythemusic.com ripoff is
on the grounds of art or even journalism, though it is wretched
journalism, mere paperhanging for advertising, pandering to
manufacturers too cheap to afford real advertising. Nah, here I speak
as a DIYer and on grounds of morality.

Look, audio has from the very
beginning been very commercial.

Absolutely no objection. On my home base, RAT, most of the actually
useful guys have some commercial interest in electronics or directly in
audio. Without their knowledge, the newsgroup would fall down.

But Rochlin doesn't fit that definition. He is a know-nothing. If he
didn't make a buck leading audiophile fashion victims to the slaughter,
he'd make a buck leading jeans-snobs or watch-snobs to the slaughter.
Rochlin is an ignorant shill.

My personal opinion is that Mr. Rochlin's
obvious, and not criminal, desire to make money is a tolerable tradeoff
for
what he provides the community.

The question is what does he provide to the community. My opinion is
clear enough above: nothing for the community, dollars in Rochlin's
pocket for Rochlin.

Or does Mr. Jute think that the lives of audio entrepreneurs should
patten
after Kerouac, Burroughs, or Jackson Pollock?

Please God, no! Your very suggestion tells us that you don't know
anything at all about these people. I'm sure that even Rochlin, whom I
dislike intensely for his basic dishonesty, his uselessness, for being
a parasite, bathes more often than that trio of scroungers and liars.
But there is a difference between Rochlin and that trio: they had
talent; Rochlin's only "talent" is quivering like a puppy-dog to be
loved so that we will give him tidbits off our table.

Rochlin is not "an audio entrepreneur". He is a publicity flack, a
paper hanger for advertiser, grubbing trash. It is an impertinence for
Rochlin to claim that his Enjoythemusic.com ripoff "helps audiophiles".
It helps no one except Steven R. Rochlin, who next week will be pushing
different crap while the innocent is stuck with the crap he equally
willy-nilly pushed last week.

Check out who advertises on Rochlin's site. Then check out who gets the
best reviews and the constant mentions. Draw a conclusion. I have. See
above.

Andre Jute
"You can wait 'til more important things get taken care of."
-- Ned Carlson of TubeZone to a Customer who already waited *14 weeks*
for his tubes.


Andre Jute wrote:

Rochlin: far from "helping audiophiles" as you claim,
you are a parasite on high fidelity, pushing bland and
incompetent **** because the makers pay you for
adverising on your silly site and for the number of
foolish audiophiles who read your one-sided
travesties of reviews. You are a sales hack, pure
and simple, but one without the balls to open up
an emporium on the high street. --- Andre Jute

Hi Everyone,

Enjoy the Music.com's July edition celebrates our 11th year of
helping
audiophiles all around the globe with informative articles, show
reports,
equipment reviews plus much more! New reviews appear in both Superior
Audio
and the Review Magazine, with critical assessments of the Audioengine 5

powered monitors, silver cable comparo, Hagerman Technology Chime tubed
DAC,
Role Audio Sampan speakers, Sound Dead Steel Isoplatmat, Stereovox XV2
cable, Aural Acoustics Model B speakers, plus ModWright Instrument's
Denon
3910 universal player and SWL 9.0 SE preamplifier.

http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com

Enjoy the Music,

Steven R. Rochlin
http://www.EnjoyTheMusic.com

Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R. Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

The poisonous miasma that is Andrew Jute McCoy exuded:
More Crap, different day....

Only this time, its chosen sock-puppets (both sides) joined in for
"weight".

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R. Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

The poisonous miasma that is Andrew Jute McCoy exuded:
More Crap, different day....

Only this time, its chosen sock-puppets (both sides) joined in for
"weight".

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

What is your problem, Peter? This is a purposeful, intellectual thread.

Bob Morein
Dresher, PA
(215) 646-4894

Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R. Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

soundhaspriority wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

The poisonous miasma that is Andrew Jute McCoy exuded:
More Crap, different day....

Only this time, its chosen sock-puppets (both sides) joined in for
"weight".

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

What is your problem, Peter? This is a purposeful, intellectual thread.

Bob Morein
Dresher, PA
(215) 646-4894

Someone rather aptly christened this fellow Witless Wiecky. I didn't
know he still hangs around. He arrived around last November, probably
stoked up by Michael LaFever of Magnequest who is his neighbour, and
started his life of misery by assaulting my every post. I gave up
reading what he wrote after a couple of weeks. He doesn't do anything,
he doesn't know anything, he cannot contribute anything, he isn't
intelligent, he isn't amusing, he's a mindlessly circular oxygen-burden
on the planet.

There are more like Witless Wiecky on RAT: Yaeger, Poopie, MarkS,
Eiron, idiots who think that by making snippy comments about my posts
they will build up their own inadequate self-esteem. They're too dumb
to understand that one doesn't gain esteem by tearing down but by
building up. I just ignore them; they're harmless slow-learners, though
I daresay others without killfiles find their mindlessly iterated
stupidities irritating.

Andre Jute
Toujours l'outrage -- French for "in your face"

Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R.Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

In article 1152329 "Andre Jute" babbled:

There are more like "Andre Jute" on RAT: Yaeger, Poopie, MarkS,
Eiron, idiots who think that by making snippy comments about my posts they
will build up their own inadequate self-esteem. And they use phony names like
"Andre Jute" as well. They're too dumb to understand that one doesn't gain
esteem by tearing down but by building up. I just ignore them; they're
harmless slow-learners, though I daresay others without killfiles find their
mindlessly iterated stupidities irritating.


Robert Morein
Shop 'N Bag, Pennsylvania

Not enjoying the cacaphony of the sales hack Steven R. Rochlin abusing us to make a buck
 

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
.. .
In article 1152329 "Andre Jute" babbled:

There are more like "Andre Jute" on RAT: Yaeger, Poopie, MarkS,
Eiron, idiots who think that by making snippy comments about my posts
they
will build up their own inadequate self-esteem. And they use phony names
like
"Andre Jute" as well. They're too dumb to understand that one doesn't
gain
esteem by tearing down but by building up. I just ignore them; they're
harmless slow-learners, though I daresay others without killfiles find
their
mindlessly iterated stupidities irritating.


Robert Morein
Shop 'N Bag, Pennsylvania

Alright, Brian. Great website you've got, http://www.coralseastudios.com.
Too bad it makes fraudulent claims.