The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Everyone knows that RAT is the target of all kinds of scum who come
here only to conduct flame wars.

Most of them, like Worthless Wiecky, are, well, worthless. They are the
only ones who think they're clever. Silence is the most scathing
comment one can make on their mindless witterings.

Some, like Carlson and Yeager (Yaeger?) are crooked garage vermin
hoping to make a buck but unable to button their lip. Anyone who deals
with people with so little self-control will get what they deserve.

But here I want to address my attention to the slime with electrical
qualifications who come on RAT and UKRA and RAO with the specific
purpose of draining the glee from someone else's hobby. They too,
ludicrously, fancy themselves polemicists. Anyone who wants to
investigate that aspect of their self-delusion can read the threads to
discover how easily I persuade them simultaneously to scratch their
arses and pick their noses in public, how easily one can manipulate
these clowns into exposing their viciousness in their own words. That's
hardly worth pointing out to an aware readership.

The specific aspect of their misbehaviour that attracts my attention
now is their input on a single technical matter, negative feedback.

NFB, and the attitudes to it of various schools of audiophiles, is a
favourite whipping-rod of the diplomaed quarterwits who make up the
silicon slime. We have had years of Krueger and his organ-grinder's
monkey Pinkerton, and the other wretched Ps, and their footsoldier
Trevor Wilson, abusing us on NFB. Wilson went so far as to call me a
liar on NFB because I made some mild jokes about it. Notice the
subtext: he cannot call me a liar unless he first admits that I am
knowledgeable about it; ditto with his abuse of Patrick Turner and
others on the same subject.

Turn now to a recent thread on RAT, "Negative Feedback in Triodes: The
Logical and Experimental Proof".
http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.au...f8d8ed 263a35
If you don't care about the technicalities, you don't need to read it.
All you need to know is that in this thread I prove beyond a shadow of
a doubt, with a replicable experiment, that triodes sound so good, and
are capable of being used in zero negative feedback circuits,
***because the negative feedback is built into the triode***. To hammer
home the truth, I demonstrate that a pentode is a triode with extra
screens to subvert the native NFB of a triode. To nail that truth down
so that the dumbest of the graduate engineers (1) cannot misread it,
Patrick Turner then fills out the argument with an incontestible set of
observable numbers.

That is what the technically-qualified wannabe flame warriors spent
years trying to make me admit, that I use NFB. I ran them around the
mulberry bush for those years just because they are malicious scum and
deserve someone righteous and smart on their arse as punishment for
their continual attempts to set up a pork butchery in someone else's
synagogue.

Now check the names of the contributors to the thread. Ignore the
fartcatchers who follow me around everywhere and make worthless
ocmments every time I fart. Ask instead: Where is Pinkerton? Where is
Pearce? Where is Poopie Stevenson? Where is Arnie Krueger? Where is
Trevor Wilson? Where is Henry Pasternack? Why, I'm singing from their
hymn sheet! But do they come out to support me? Good heavens no! There
isn't a chink in my screed or Patrick's numbers for them to insert
their nastiness. Rather than support my good work in their cause, they
are absent and silent. They have no positive impulse.

Do we need any further proof that the silicon slime is on the net
merely for negative, not to say vicious, purposes? Do I need any
further justication for stomping them whenever I see them?

Andre Jute
Abstracting technical advice from the background and character of its
proponents is an expensive delusion I sincerely hope my commercial
competitors will suffer daily. -- Andre Jute, speech to the Media
Association, Helsinki, c1973

(1) "Our graduate engineers are dumber than anyone else's graduate
engineers." -- RATbrag

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Andrew Jute McCoy whined and puled:

Its typical self-serving drivel.

No life, no ambition, no hope. This creature reminds me of the famous
"Vanishing Bird". It flies in ever-decreasing circles until it finally
vanishes up its own fundament. I guess it has a use... providing a sort
of gallows humor to this venue along side the likes of Ludwig, Allison
and Middius. Ludwig and Allison are partially redeemed by their
expertise. McCoy, like his second-favorite Timmee Middius hasn't even
that to offer.

It makes a man quietly proud, however, to be first on its pantheon of
bete-noirs.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Andre Jute wrote:

Now check the names of the contributors to the thread. Ignore the
fartcatchers who follow me around everywhere and make worthless
ocmments every time I fart. Ask instead: Where is Pinkerton? Where is
Pearce? Where is Poopie Stevenson? Where is Arnie Krueger? Where is
Trevor Wilson? Where is Henry Pasternack? Why, I'm singing from their
hymn sheet!

Eh ?

But do they come out to support me? Good heavens no!

I tend not to bother reading your posts any more actually since they tend to go on ad nauseam about all manner of OT stuff. Hence I wouldn't know what you were saying much but I did notice a rare moment of sanity in a post of yours I caught a
couple of days back ! Wasn't really sure what to make of it. Trolling ? So I moved on to another post.

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Witless Wiecky squawked:

It makes a man quietly proud, however, to be first on its pantheon of
bete-noirs[sic].

The opinion of somebody who abetted the nefarious machinations of Lyin'
Bwian McAssWipe is of no value to those of us who choose not to live in
your gutter, Wiecky.





--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Andre Jute wrote:
Everyone knows that RAT is the target of all kinds of scum who come
here only to conduct flame wars.

For the most part it's because intelligent discussions are evaded or
dropped whilst a few loads such as yourself monopolize the show. You
are incompetent, you are wrong and you are marginally sociopathic to
judge from your writing.

Add to this is the unfortunate fact a great number of tube
"enthusiasts" are technical nitwits who either posess low IQ or have
picked up the belief they need no technical skills, no rigor or
discipline of study.

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in
oups.com:

such as

You forgot to list Phil Allison.

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Now, which bothers you more? That as a sockpuppet, McCoy's fingers are
so far up your fundament that you are tasting them from the back of
your throat, or that you are only its second-favorite?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"George M. Middius" wrote:

Witless Wiecky squawked:

It makes a man quietly proud, however, to be first on its pantheon of
bete-noirs[sic].

The opinion of somebody who abetted the nefarious machinations of Lyin'
Bwian McAssWipe is of no value to those of us who choose not to live in
your gutter, Wiecky.

Good Lord ! You've resurfaced from your sewer have you ?

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Prune wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote in
oups.com:

such as

You forgot to list Phil Allison.

So he did ! Maybe he didn't fancy getting sworn at ?

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Eeyore wrote:

Trolling ? So I moved on to another post.

Graham:

Actually, McCoy answered your question directly as to what he does
here.

Ignore the fartcatchers who follow me around everywhere and make worthless
ocmments every time I fart.

He is farting. On a cosmic scale, that makes so much sense as to be
scary. Maybe his meds are kicking in and some of that fuzzyness is
being replaced with self-knowledge?

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

Trolling ? So I moved on to another post.

Graham:

Actually, McCoy answered your question directly as to what he does
here.

You mean his *is* trolling ? I'm blowed if I can work it out tbh.


Ignore the fartcatchers who follow me around everywhere and make worthless
ocmments every time I fart.

He is farting. On a cosmic scale, that makes so much sense as to be
scary. Maybe his meds are kicking in and some of that fuzzyness is
being replaced with self-knowledge?

What was the immediately above about ?

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...
Everyone knows that RAT is the target of all kinds of scum who come
here only to conduct flame wars.

Most of them, like Worthless Wiecky, are, well, worthless. They are the
only ones who think they're clever. Silence is the most scathing
comment one can make on their mindless witterings.

Some, like Carlson and Yeager (Yaeger?) are crooked garage vermin
hoping to make a buck but unable to button their lip. Anyone who deals
with people with so little self-control will get what they deserve.

But here I want to address my attention to the slime with electrical
qualifications who come on RAT and UKRA and RAO with the specific
purpose of draining the glee from someone else's hobby. They too,
ludicrously, fancy themselves polemicists. Anyone who wants to
investigate that aspect of their self-delusion can read the threads to
discover how easily I persuade them simultaneously to scratch their
arses and pick their noses in public, how easily one can manipulate
these clowns into exposing their viciousness in their own words. That's
hardly worth pointing out to an aware readership.

The specific aspect of their misbehaviour that attracts my attention
now is their input on a single technical matter, negative feedback.

NFB, and the attitudes to it of various schools of audiophiles, is a
favourite whipping-rod of the diplomaed quarterwits who make up the
silicon slime. We have had years of Krueger and his organ-grinder's
monkey Pinkerton, and the other wretched Ps, and their footsoldier
Trevor Wilson, abusing us on NFB. Wilson went so far as to call me a
liar on NFB because I made some mild jokes about it. Notice the
subtext: he cannot call me a liar unless he first admits that I am
knowledgeable about it; ditto with his abuse of Patrick Turner and
others on the same subject.

**I have NEVER denied that you and Patrick are not knowledgable about the
topic. YOU are just a liar. Instead of explaining the topic of NFB, you
gloss over the important details.


Turn now to a recent thread on RAT, "Negative Feedback in Triodes: The
Logical and Experimental Proof".
http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.au...f8d8ed 263a35
If you don't care about the technicalities, you don't need to read it.
All you need to know is that in this thread I prove beyond a shadow of
a doubt, with a replicable experiment, that triodes sound so good, and
are capable of being used in zero negative feedback circuits,
***because the negative feedback is built into the triode***.

**It is still NFB and few deny this obvious fact. It is why you cannot build
a triode amplifier without NFB. It's already in place.

To hammer
home the truth, I demonstrate that a pentode is a triode with extra
screens to subvert the native NFB of a triode. To nail that truth down
so that the dumbest of the graduate engineers (1) cannot misread it,
Patrick Turner then fills out the argument with an incontestible set of
observable numbers.

**Again, no argument. Patrick explained accurately and succinctly. It is a
shame you cannot do likewise. Instead, you just lie and obfuscate.


That is what the technically-qualified wannabe flame warriors spent
years trying to make me admit, that I use NFB. I ran them around the
mulberry bush for those years just because they are malicious scum and
deserve someone righteous and smart on their arse as punishment for
their continual attempts to set up a pork butchery in someone else's
synagogue.

Now check the names of the contributors to the thread. Ignore the
fartcatchers who follow me around everywhere and make worthless
ocmments every time I fart. Ask instead: Where is Pinkerton? Where is
Pearce? Where is Poopie Stevenson? Where is Arnie Krueger? Where is
Trevor Wilson? Where is Henry Pasternack? Why, I'm singing from their
hymn sheet! But do they come out to support me?

**When you don't lie, I support you. I did earlier in this post. When you
lie, I will jump on you. When you tell the truth, I will support you. Fair
enough?

Good heavens no! There
isn't a chink in my screed or Patrick's numbers for them to insert
their nastiness. Rather than support my good work in their cause, they
are absent and silent. They have no positive impulse.

**Wrong. It's just that you lie and obfuscate so often, I have few
opportunities to agree with you.


Do we need any further proof that the silicon slime is on the net
merely for negative, not to say vicious, purposes? Do I need any
further justication for stomping them whenever I see them?

**You just hate being caught out when you lie. That ain't my fault.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"Andre Jute" wrote


Turn now to a recent thread on RAT, "Negative Feedback in Triodes: The
Logical and Experimental Proof".
http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.au...f8d8ed 263a35
If you don't care about the technicalities, you don't need to read it.
All you need to know is that in this thread I prove beyond a shadow of
a doubt, with a replicable experiment, that triodes sound so good, and
are capable of being used in zero negative feedback circuits,
***because the negative feedback is built into the triode***. To hammer
home the truth, I demonstrate that a pentode is a triode with extra
screens to subvert the native NFB of a triode. To nail that truth down
so that the dumbest of the graduate engineers (1) cannot misread it,
Patrick Turner then fills out the argument with an incontestible set of
observable numbers.


Thank you for including ukra in your observations André, but I would point
out that there are only 1.1 SETies here (me regularly and an occasional
poster who is a SETmeister but never really mentions them) and that we have
the situation well under control. The only real 'antiSET' opinion here is
from outsiders (not UK residents) who blow in from time to time to grace us
with their wisdom and put us right.

Needless to say, their comments are taken in the spirit in which they are
given and then disregarded *entirely*...

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**I have NEVER denied that you and Patrick are not knowledgable about the
topic. YOU are just a liar.




You *are* Stewart Pinkerton and I claim my five pounds....

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote


Turn now to a recent thread on RAT, "Negative Feedback in Triodes: The
Logical and Experimental Proof".
http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.au...f8d8ed 263a35
If you don't care about the technicalities, you don't need to read it.
All you need to know is that in this thread I prove beyond a shadow of
a doubt, with a replicable experiment, that triodes sound so good, and
are capable of being used in zero negative feedback circuits,
***because the negative feedback is built into the triode***. To hammer
home the truth, I demonstrate that a pentode is a triode with extra
screens to subvert the native NFB of a triode. To nail that truth down
so that the dumbest of the graduate engineers (1) cannot misread it,
Patrick Turner then fills out the argument with an incontestible set of
observable numbers.


Thank you for including ukra in your observations André, but I would point
out that there are only 1.1 SETies here (me regularly and an occasional
poster who is a SETmeister but never really mentions them) and that we have
the situation well under control. The only real 'antiSET' opinion here is
from outsiders (not UK residents) who blow in from time to time to grace us
with their wisdom and put us right.

Needless to say, their comments are taken in the spirit in which they are
given and then disregarded *entirely*...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keith G. says:
"The only real 'antiSET' opinion here is
from outsiders (not UK residents) who blow in from time to time to grace us
with their wisdom and put us right.
You must not be so parochial. Think the wide web, think the world wide
training of audio professionals. They are all indebted to the great
teaching resource about negative feedback this thread represents.
For instance: this invaluable comment to memorise for the
audio-engineering exam. : "Now, which bothers you more? That as a
sockpuppet, McCoy's fingers are
so far up your fundament that you are tasting them from the back of
your throat, or that you are only its second-favorite?"
A lesson to us all.
Ludovic Mirabel

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:33:33 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

snip

**It is still NFB and few deny this obvious fact. It is why you cannot
build
a triode amplifier without NFB. It's already in place.

A triode amplifier with no NFB.

**No such thing.

If you mean a Triode amp with no GLOBAL NFB or added LOCAL NFB (cathode
resistors, et al), then that is a different thing. In which case, that needs
to be spelled out.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

" wrote:

You must not be so parochial. Think the wide web, think the world wide
training of audio professionals. They are all indebted to the great
teaching resource about negative feedback this thread represents.

I dare say you reckon you're fabulously better placed to comment on audio than a mere professional. Would you also get your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this revalation ?

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

flipper wrote:

Operate a triode into a
current mirror and there is no 'feedback', global, local, or
otherwise.

There is however some 'silicon slime' involved ! How *could* you ?

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:40:47 -0400, George M. Middius cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote:



Witless Wiecky squawked:

It makes a man quietly proud, however, to be first on its pantheon of
bete-noirs[sic].

The opinion of somebody who abetted the nefarious machinations of Lyin'
Bwian McAssWipe is of no value to those of us who choose not to live in
your gutter, Wiecky.

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten those of us not aware of this
incident, George.

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

On 18 Aug 2006 09:26:36 -0700, "Andre Jute" wrote:

I persuade them simultaneously to scratch their arses and pick their noses in public,

Ignore the fartcatchers who follow me around everywhere and make worthless
ocmments every time I fart.

There's a pattern in your train of thought emerging here, but I wasn't
sure whether to 'ocmment' on it or not.

Ask instead: Where is Pinkerton? Where is
Pearce? Where is Poopie Stevenson? Where is Arnie Krueger? Where is
Trevor Wilson? Where is Henry Pasternack? Why, I'm singing from their
hymn sheet!

I'll have you know that Trevor Wilson has not, and never has had, a
hymn sheet! And he won't thank you for suggesting such. :-)

Abstracting technical advice from the background and character of its
proponents is an expensive delusion I sincerely hope my commercial
competitors will suffer daily. -- Andre Jute, speech to the Media
Association, Helsinki, c1973

Do you usually quote yourself?

Oh, okay.....

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:47:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:33:33 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

snip

**It is still NFB and few deny this obvious fact. It is why you cannot
build
a triode amplifier without NFB. It's already in place.

A triode amplifier with no NFB.

**No such thing.

I gave you the circuit for one in my post, your snippage
notwithstanding.


If you mean a Triode amp with no GLOBAL NFB or added LOCAL NFB (cathode
resistors, et al), then that is a different thing. In which case, that
needs
to be spelled out.

There is no need for you to feign "if you mean" as I described the
circuit making it clear 'what I meant'. Operate a triode into a
current mirror and there is no 'feedback', global, local, or
otherwise.

**It's no longer a Triode amplifier, by the strict sense of the word, is it?
The active load is now part of the amplifier.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

paul packer said:

The opinion of somebody who abetted the nefarious machinations of Lyin'
Bwian McAssWipe is of no value to those of us who choose not to live in
your gutter, Wiecky.

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten those of us not aware of this
incident, George.

Sounds like you were napping instead of actually reading. Maybe you should
just turn down the sheets a little earlier, eh?




--

"Christians have to ... work to make the world as loving, just, and supportive as is possible."
A. Krooger, Aug. 2006

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 02:16:56 -0400, George M. Middius cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote:



paul packer said:

The opinion of somebody who abetted the nefarious machinations of Lyin'
Bwian McAssWipe is of no value to those of us who choose not to live in
your gutter, Wiecky.

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten those of us not aware of this
incident, George.

Sounds like you were napping instead of actually reading. Maybe you should
just turn down the sheets a little earlier, eh?


Thanks for yet another straight answer, George.

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

flipper wrote:

The current mirror is not an 'active load', per see, as it does not
regulate anything (as in a constant current source) but merely
reflects the triode current into a second path.

Only if you believe the current mirror action is 100% perfect.

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
:
:
: flipper wrote:
:
: The current mirror is not an 'active load', per see, as it does not
: regulate anything (as in a constant current source) but merely
: reflects the triode current into a second path.
:
: Only if you believe the current mirror action is 100% perfect.
:
: Graham
:

Hmm. so, where were you, when there were over 40 posts, a
link to several circuits 5 months ago on this idea ??

The only way the anode voltage can have a changing influence
by electrostatically influencing the space charge around the cathode,
is when it ^actually^ changes, eh ?
so, lock the anode voltage, he, presto, no fb, no Miller, because
the inherent fb mechanism is not used

Hybrid Circuit

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Ruud Broens wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
:
:
: flipper wrote:
:
: The current mirror is not an 'active load', per see, as it does not
: regulate anything (as in a constant current source) but merely
: reflects the triode current into a second path.
:
: Only if you believe the current mirror action is 100% perfect.
:
: Graham

Hmm. so, where were you, when there were over 40 posts, a
link to several circuits 5 months ago on this idea ??

Probably not paying attention. If there were lots of Joot and Middius posts
involved I may simply not have bothered looking.


The only way the anode voltage can have a changing influence
by electrostatically influencing the space charge around the cathode,
is when it ^actually^ changes, eh ?
so, lock the anode voltage, he, presto, no fb, no Miller, because
the inherent fb mechanism is not used

Also true in cascode circuits.

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:47:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:


"flipper" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:33:33 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

snip

**It is still NFB and few deny this obvious fact. It is why you cannot
build
a triode amplifier without NFB. It's already in place.

A triode amplifier with no NFB.

**No such thing.

I gave you the circuit for one in my post, your snippage
notwithstanding.


If you mean a Triode amp with no GLOBAL NFB or added LOCAL NFB (cathode
resistors, et al), then that is a different thing. In which case, that
needs
to be spelled out.

There is no need for you to feign "if you mean" as I described the
circuit making it clear 'what I meant'. Operate a triode into a
current mirror and there is no 'feedback', global, local, or
otherwise.

**It's no longer a Triode amplifier, by the strict sense of the word, is it?
The active load is now part of the amplifier.

I routinely use a solid state CCS load for a single triode preamp gain tube or
the
input tube of a power amp.

And indeed the active CCS load makes the triode amp a hybrid.
Butt the CCS I may use is just a bjt used so that the dynamic collector
resistance
is increased from the data figure of typically 20k to about 20Meg, so that any
voltage change
at the collector does not produce any significant current change.
The huge effective collector resistance is shunted by the triode's comparitively
very low
Ra, so that any artifacts produced by the presence of the bjt are reduced
by about 3 orders of magnitude; ie, the bjt CCS acts as a totally complient
slave to the
current needs of the triode, and when there is minimal current change and
maximal voltage change
in the triode then the NFB applied within the triode is at a maximum, allowing
it to have a gain
approaching the µ on the data sheets.
This gives very low THD compared to typical R loads normally used by less keen
designers.

I suggest you view the data curves for the 6SN7, and draw the load line for
20Meg ohms through Ia = 4mA at Ea = 150V, and plot the THD for +/- 10Vrms.
Its so hard to do this accurately because there is so little THD that one must
set up
a 1/2 6SN7 and measure it with a very high input Z test probe to a THD meter.

CCS are routinely used as common cathode loads in tube circuits.
The ARC amps use depletion j-fets for CCS in cathode circuits
wherever they see fit instead of using a pentode.
The pentodes would not work as well as the depletion fets.
Ditto with bjts.
One may call such circuits hybrid, but at no point in the circuits mentioned
are SS devices used to produce voltage gain; all the circuit gain is produced
with triodes.
The active SS CCS loads remove the sonic degradation caused by resistors
because resistors load a triode to cause current change and the more current
change there
is the more distortion there is.
Go back to the data graph for 6SN7, and plot a load of 40k for the anode load.
The try RL = zero ohms, ie, no load, and that is where thd is the greatest.

Should you not understand load line analysis, read my website pages to find out
how.

Patrick Turner.




--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Eeyore wrote:
" wrote:

You must not be so parochial. Think the wide web, think the world wide
training of audio professionals. They are all indebted to the great
teaching resource about negative feedback this thread represents.

I dare say you reckon you're fabulously better placed to comment on audio than a mere professional. Would you also get your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this revalation ?

Graham
-----------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Eeyore. It seems that I caused offence and you're leaping into
the breach to defend your profession that I supposedly attacked. Where
exactly did you see me say that I'm."...fabulously better placed to
comment on audio than a mere professional" ? On the contrary I deplored
that the assembled professionals of the RAO indulge in endless
mud-slinging contests instead of enlightening us about their job. Shall
I quote some of your own comments?
Of course the sample we get in RAO may not be representative. To
illustrate let me answer your rhetorical question: "Would you also get
your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this
revalation ?". The answer is :Yes, given no other choice I might go for
a commonsensical neighbour rather than some "surgeons" I had seen. A
degree is a licence to practice , not a guarantee of good practice. In
medicine, unfortunately, it may be a licence to kill. As one of my
Univ. teachers used to say: "With your degree you're given a little
private cemetery and you can set out to fill it for the rest of your
professional life"
But your snippet brings in a wider issue: In the end it is the consumer
who decides. And consumer are just as varied as the engineers serving
them.
Your more primitive colleagues on RAO assure us that they represent
"Science". They "prove" that all transistors are better than all tubes,
all CDs.bettere than all LPS and that all their double-blind judgements
are better than all those of K. Rubinson's, J.Atkinson's, Gordon Holt's
etc if sighted..
There are just one or two little problems. To a layman- consumer it
appears that many leaders in your profession do not write for RAO but
are busy creating different wrinkles for amps, preamps, cd players etc.
that your "scientists" say should all sound the same. Whom to
believe? Who is the voodoo scientist: Manley and D'Agostino, or Bateman
of the RAHE and the usual shrill suspects of RAO?
If you add that these gents proclaim the infallibility of their
voodoo, magic "test" that they never bothered to validate by a properly
designed experimentation- what is the poor consumer to do but rely on
his preference?
By all means explain to us how things work but leave us with our
preferences because neither we nor you have an infallible tool to
measu better from worse.that works for anyone other than ourselves.
And keep filth out of these pages..
Ludovic Mirabel

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Eeyore wrote:
" wrote:

You must not be so parochial. Think the wide web, think the world wide
training of audio professionals. They are all indebted to the great
teaching resource about negative feedback this thread represents.

I dare say you reckon you're fabulously better placed to comment on audio than a mere professional. Would you also get your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this revalation ?

Graham

To clarify: My sarcastic comment one half of which you quoted referred
to this contribution (and its like):: "Now, which bothers you more?
That as a sockpuppet, McCoy's fingers are
so far up your fundament that you are tasting them from the back of
your throat, or that you are only its second-favorite?"
Or do you think it is a "comment from a professional" for us peasants?
My desire to keep the filth out of RAO did not refer to you.
Ludovic Mirabel

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
" wrote:

You must not be so parochial. Think the wide web, think the world wide
training of audio professionals. They are all indebted to the great
teaching resource about negative feedback this thread represents.

I dare say you reckon you're fabulously better placed to comment on audio than a mere professional. Would you also get your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this revalation ?

Graham

To clarify: My sarcastic comment one half of which you quoted referred
to this contribution (and its like):: "Now, which bothers you more?
That as a sockpuppet, McCoy's fingers are
so far up your fundament that you are tasting them from the back of
your throat, or that you are only its second-favorite?"
Or do you think it is a "comment from a professional" for us peasants?
My desire to keep the filth out of RAO did not refer to you.
Ludovic Mirabel

It was the intimation that audio professionals had somehow to be brainwashed to 'believe' in NFB. I've done the circuit theory of its application at college. It's no more good or bad than V=IR !

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

flipper wrote:

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:59:56 +0100, Eeyore
wrote:

Ruud Broens wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
:
: flipper wrote:
:
: The current mirror is not an 'active load', per see, as it does not
: regulate anything (as in a constant current source) but merely
: reflects the triode current into a second path.
:
: Only if you believe the current mirror action is 100% perfect.
:
: Graham

Hmm. so, where were you, when there were over 40 posts, a
link to several circuits 5 months ago on this idea ??

Probably not paying attention. If there were lots of Joot and Middius posts
involved I may simply not have bothered looking.

The only way the anode voltage can have a changing influence
by electrostatically influencing the space charge around the cathode,
is when it ^actually^ changes, eh ?
so, lock the anode voltage, he, presto, no fb, no Miller, because
the inherent fb mechanism is not used

Also true in cascode circuits.

Only if you believe the cascode is 100% perfect.

chuckle

I'd thought of that too but was curious to see what your response was.

Sooo.... Where do you see the imperfections ?

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Eeyore wrote:
" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
" wrote:

You must not be so parochial. Think the wide web, think the world wide
training of audio professionals. They are all indebted to the great
teaching resource about negative feedback this thread represents.

I dare say you reckon you're fabulously better placed to comment on audio than a mere professional. Would you also get your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this revalation ?

Graham

To clarify: My sarcastic comment one half of which you quoted referred
to this contribution (and its like):: "Now, which bothers you more?
That as a sockpuppet, McCoy's fingers are
so far up your fundament that you are tasting them from the back of
your throat, or that you are only its second-favorite?"
Or do you think it is a "comment from a professional" for us peasants?
My desire to keep the filth out of RAO did not refer to you.
Ludovic Mirabel

It was the intimation that audio professionals had somehow to be brainwashed to 'believe' in NFB. I've done the circuit theory of its application at college. It's no more good or bad than V=IR !

Graham

You'll get no argument from me. I know my limitations.
Ludovic M

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

On 19 Aug 2006 12:19:33 -0700, "
wrote:

To illustrate let me answer your rhetorical question: "Would you also get
your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this
revalation ?". The answer is :Yes, given no other choice I might go for
a commonsensical neighbour rather than some "surgeons" I had seen. A
degree is a licence to practice , not a guarantee of good practice. In
medicine, unfortunately, it may be a licence to kill. As one of my
Univ. teachers used to say: "With your degree you're given a little
private cemetery and you can set out to fill it for the rest of your
professional life"

Now you've got me worried, Ludo. I'll just have to try not to need
surgery for the rest of my life. :-)

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

This isn't about SET, Keith. That scum try to drain the glee from
everyone's hobby, not just the SETties. Ludovic is right, this is about
education, specifically the scum's claim that they are here to educate,
which I have just demonstrated is hollow. Read the first post in this
thread again: I show that the minute serious work is being done in
which there is not the slightest chance for them to conduct a flame
war, to bully someone, they absent themselves.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review


Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote


Turn now to a recent thread on RAT, "Negative Feedback in Triodes: The
Logical and Experimental Proof".
http://groups.google.ie/group/rec.au...f8d8ed 263a35
If you don't care about the technicalities, you don't need to read it.
All you need to know is that in this thread I prove beyond a shadow of
a doubt, with a replicable experiment, that triodes sound so good, and
are capable of being used in zero negative feedback circuits,
***because the negative feedback is built into the triode***. To hammer
home the truth, I demonstrate that a pentode is a triode with extra
screens to subvert the native NFB of a triode. To nail that truth down
so that the dumbest of the graduate engineers (1) cannot misread it,
Patrick Turner then fills out the argument with an incontestible set of
observable numbers.


Thank you for including ukra in your observations André, but I would point
out that there are only 1.1 SETies here (me regularly and an occasional
poster who is a SETmeister but never really mentions them) and that we have
the situation well under control. The only real 'antiSET' opinion here is
from outsiders (not UK residents) who blow in from time to time to grace us
with their wisdom and put us right.

Needless to say, their comments are taken in the spirit in which they are
given and then disregarded *entirely*...

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Andre Jute wrote:

This isn't about SET

Uh ?

According to you, *EVERYTHING* is about SET you weasle worded POS !!!

Graham

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
This isn't about SET, Keith. That scum try to drain the glee from
everyone's hobby, not just the SETties. Ludovic is right, this is about
education, specifically the scum's claim that they are here to educate,
which I have just demonstrated is hollow. Read the first post in this
thread again: I show that the minute serious work is being done in
which there is not the slightest chance for them to conduct a flame
war, to bully someone, they absent themselves.


Sure, the same sort of thing used to be the norm in ukra - self-styled
'experts' routinely hosing the fun out of the hobby for the less 'technical'
types. The upshot is that many people shrugged and left the group,
presumably to go and lead normal lives.....???

If were not for a few dogged flaky (or unbulliable) types there would only
be a handful of 'experts' left here, sitting in silence, patiently waiting
for another fly to buzz in....

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"flipper" wrote in message
...
: On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 02:32:37 +0100, Eeyore
: wrote:
:
:
:
: flipper wrote:
:
: On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 13:59:56 +0100, Eeyore
: wrote:
:
: Ruud Broens wrote:
:
: "Eeyore" wrote in
message
: ...
: :
: : flipper wrote:
: :
: : The current mirror is not an 'active load', per see, as it does not
: : regulate anything (as in a constant current source) but merely
: : reflects the triode current into a second path.
: :
: : Only if you believe the current mirror action is 100% perfect.
: :
: : Graham
:
: Hmm. so, where were you, when there were over 40 posts, a
: link to several circuits 5 months ago on this idea ??
:
: Probably not paying attention. If there were lots of Joot and Middius posts
: involved I may simply not have bothered looking.
:
: The only way the anode voltage can have a changing influence
: by electrostatically influencing the space charge around the cathode,
: is when it ^actually^ changes, eh ?
: so, lock the anode voltage, he, presto, no fb, no Miller, because
: the inherent fb mechanism is not used
:
: Also true in cascode circuits.
:
: Only if you believe the cascode is 100% perfect.
:
: chuckle
:
: I'd thought of that too but was curious to see what your response was.
:
: Of course you were. LOL
:
:
: Sooo.... Where do you see the imperfections ?
:
: Everywhere. Nothing is perfect.
:
:
: Graham

...iridium comes close, though :-)

on the current mirror 'loaded' tube idea:
the PL83 is a good tube to experiment with -
for one thing, it only costs 2 euro's or less,
it's a penthode with external G3 grid pin, not internally connected to the
cathode

for another, you can use it in many configurations:
triode connected, 125Vak, 35 mA gives some 14 mA/V conversion,
with a max 2Vtt in
for a voltage gain of several hundred, just depending on the used
R and voltage reference (eg. a -200 V supply)

you could reintroduce fb by getting a suitable negative
voltage to G3 for a high Z fb point

and use it as a penthode, anode voltage well below G2
possibly interesting for guitar use

or combine any of these ideas :-)

(the N309 =PL83 datasheet has both triode curves and the G3
voltage influence in graphs)

Rudy

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

paul packer wrote:
On 19 Aug 2006 12:19:33 -0700, "
wrote:

To illustrate let me answer your rhetorical question: "Would you also get
your next-door neighbour to perform surgery on you in view of this
revalation ?". The answer is :Yes, given no other choice I might go for
a commonsensical neighbour rather than some "surgeons" I had seen. A
degree is a licence to practice , not a guarantee of good practice. In
medicine, unfortunately, it may be a licence to kill. As one of my
Univ. teachers used to say: "With your degree you're given a little
private cemetery and you can set out to fill it for the rest of your
professional life"

Now you've got me worried, Ludo. I'll just have to try not to need
surgery for the rest of my life. :-)
---------------------------------------------
Paul says:
Now you've got me worried, Ludo. I'll just have to try not to need
surgery for the rest of my life. :-)

Excellent plan. I tried to stick to it myself. But as the poet said:
"The best laid plans of mice and men..." I had my share of
anaesthetics.
A hint... I tried to pick a surgeon that my colleagues would pick for
themselves.
Even better: that HIS colleagues (surgeons) would pick for themselves.
Ludovic Mirabel

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
"This isn't about SET, Keith. That scum try to drain the glee from
everyone's hobby, not just the SETties. Ludovic is right, this is about
education, specifically the scum's claim that they are here to educate,
which I have just demonstrated is hollow. Read the first post in this
thread again: I show that the minute serious work is being done in
which there is not the slightest chance for them to conduct a flame
war, to bully someone, they absent themselves."


Sure, the same sort of thing used to be the norm in ukra - self-styled
'experts' routinely hosing the fun out of the hobby for the less 'technical'
types. The upshot is that many people shrugged and left the group,
presumably to go and lead normal lives.....???

If were not for a few dogged flaky (or unbulliable) types there would only
be a handful of 'experts' left here, sitting in silence, patiently waiting
for another fly to buzz in....

That's a really sad-making state of affairs. -- AJ

The measure of the flamemongering scum on RAT
 

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
ups.com...
"This isn't about SET, Keith. That scum try to drain the glee from
everyone's hobby, not just the SETties. Ludovic is right, this is about
education, specifically the scum's claim that they are here to educate,
which I have just demonstrated is hollow. Read the first post in this
thread again: I show that the minute serious work is being done in
which there is not the slightest chance for them to conduct a flame
war, to bully someone, they absent themselves."


Sure, the same sort of thing used to be the norm in ukra - self-styled
'experts' routinely hosing the fun out of the hobby for the less
'technical'
types. The upshot is that many people shrugged and left the group,
presumably to go and lead normal lives.....???

If were not for a few dogged flaky (or unbulliable) types there would
only
be a handful of 'experts' left here, sitting in silence, patiently
waiting
for another fly to buzz in....

That's a really sad-making state of affairs. -- AJ



It is a bit - now go see my 'horny' post for a bit of a lift!! :-)