Speaker Advice
 

Dear All

Quite a few years back my father changed his hi-fi/tv kit to all B&O,
he gave me his CD and AMP, I think he only used headphones then, hence
no speakers came my way!

The Amp is an Audiolab 8000A, the CD an Arcam Alpha 7, I think of
mid/late 90s vintage, from memory I recall this was pretty good kit
that I could not afford as a student!

I've always had separates, only of average quality though. I've just
moved and decided my old Mission 760's should be replaced by something
sounding better, looking better in my contemporary flat and more suited
to the amp.

My living room has wooden floors and measures 6 x 3.5m

Now, I've no idea where to start, and what to start listening to. I've
done Googling and Quads 11L's get mentioned a few times in relation to
the Amp.

In terms of music I listen to lots of guitar based stuff, radiohead,
massive attack, muse, placebo etc.......

I know I need to listen before I buy, but some basic pointers in
relation to my amp/room size/music would be great........booksheld on
stands vs floorstanders

My 760's always sounded a bit flat with the amp, lacking bass, although
I have read that the amp is 'neutral'?

Any advice on speaker cable too would be good.

Budget wise, I can live with £200-300 I guess, stands included, or
they could follow at xmas.

Regards

David

Speaker Advice
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

** Groper alert !


My living room has wooden floors and measures 6 x 3.5m

Now, I've no idea where to start,


** Start by covering the floor of that room with thick mats or carpet.

Its is crime to destroy the sound of good speakers by putting them in an
echo chamber.

If no can do - just buy a pair or two of decent headphones.




........ Phil

Speaker Advice
 

In article .com,
writes
Dear All

Quite a few years back my father changed his hi-fi/tv kit to all B&O,
he gave me his CD and AMP, I think he only used headphones then, hence
no speakers came my way!

The Amp is an Audiolab 8000A, the CD an Arcam Alpha 7, I think of
mid/late 90s vintage, from memory I recall this was pretty good kit
that I could not afford as a student!

I've always had separates, only of average quality though. I've just
moved and decided my old Mission 760's should be replaced by something
sounding better, looking better in my contemporary flat and more suited
to the amp.

My living room has wooden floors and measures 6 x 3.5m

Now, I've no idea where to start, and what to start listening to. I've
done Googling and Quads 11L's get mentioned a few times in relation to
the Amp.

In terms of music I listen to lots of guitar based stuff, radiohead,
massive attack, muse, placebo etc.......

I know I need to listen before I buy, but some basic pointers in
relation to my amp/room size/music would be great........booksheld on
stands vs floorstanders

My 760's always sounded a bit flat with the amp, lacking bass, although
I have read that the amp is 'neutral'?

Any advice on speaker cable too would be good.

Budget wise, I can live with £200-300 I guess, stands included, or
they could follow at xmas.

Regards

David

I'd keep the Audiolab, an excellent amp and really I can't think of much
if anything that would better it for your application. The Quads are
very good too, the missus has a pair of they for her studio/office and
is very pleased with them but her mileage in sounds might differ a bit
to yours;).....
--
Tony Sayer

Speaker Advice
 

** Start by covering the floor of that room with thick mats or carpet.

Its is crime to destroy the sound of good speakers by putting them in an
echo chamber.

If no can do - just buy a pair or two of decent headphones.




....... Phil

Phil

Thanks for the quick response, carpet no, I like my wooden floor - I
note your comments though. I have some okay (prob budget for this
group) £100 Sennheiser headphones. I do need some loud speakers
though.

Thanks

David

Speaker Advice
 

David

I'd keep the Audiolab, an excellent amp and really I can't think of much
if anything that would better it for your application. The Quads are
very good too, the missus has a pair of they for her studio/office and
is very pleased with them but her mileage in sounds might differ a bit
to yours;).....
--
Tony Sayer

Tony, thanks for positive response. I will see if I can have a listen
to the Quads/consider their merits for my kind of music - although some
would question it' s merit as music!

Regards

David

Speaker Advice
 

wrote in message
oups.com...


** Arrogant Groper Fool Alert


** Start by covering the floor of that room with thick mats or carpet.

Its is crime to destroy the sound of good speakers by putting them in an
echo chamber.

If no can do - just buy a pair or two of decent headphones.


Thanks for the quick response, carpet no, I like my wooden floor


** Fine - your priorities are now clear.

YOU simply have no interest in good sound reproduction.

YOU are just another ****** who likes to collect hi-fi trinkets.


Stop wasting everyone's time - go away.





........... Phil

Speaker Advice
 

On 22 Sep 2006 02:26:47 -0700, "
wrote:

Thanks for the quick response, carpet no, I like my wooden floor - I
note your comments though. I have some okay (prob budget for this
group) £100 Sennheiser headphones. I do need some loud speakers
though.

You want a wooden floor or you want good sound?

Speaker Advice
 

** Fine - your priorities are now clear.

YOU simply have no interest in good sound reproduction.

YOU are just another ****** who likes to collect hi-fi trinkets.


Stop wasting everyone's time - go away.





.......... Phil

Phil

Thank you for your considered and constructive response.

I realise that audio equipment is a very emotive subject and men of
your calibre are clearly passionate, which is a commendable
characteristic.

I fully aknowelege that spending a great deal of money on hi-fi
equipment and a home confiuguration to suite is not a passion of mine,
I would contest that 'no interest in sound production' is a little
strong but it's a subjective matter, as is my preferance to retain
rather than cover a harwood floor with carpet

As to masturbation, thank you, but not something I regularly need to
resort to - each to their own again.

I was seeking some simple pointers for speakers that will be
compatable with my amp, before hitting the shops, rather than wasting
time, clearly this is not the NG to embark upon such a line of
questioning.

I will let you return to responding to more valid questions on the
group and apologise for wasting what is clearly very valuble time.


Regards

David

Speaker Advice
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

You want a wooden floor or you want good sound?

Laurence

I like my floor but you and colleagues have made it clear that a wooden
floor kills any chance of good sound reproduction, for which I thank
you - as it saves me spending more than a budget amount of a set of
speakers.

I won't waste any more of your time.

Regards

David

Speaker Advice
 

Oh, don't worry about Phil and his attitude problem.

But speakers live in a room and the two must be considered together. I
like wooden floors too. But you might like to investigate the effect
of bringing your speakers a little closer to the listening position
and throwing a couple of rugs on the floor in-between. Soft
furnishings and heavy curtains are good too.

Speaker Advice
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

Oh, don't worry about Phil and his attitude problem.

But speakers live in a room and the two must be considered together. I
like wooden floors too. But you might like to investigate the effect
of bringing your speakers a little closer to the listening position
and throwing a couple of rugs on the floor in-between. Soft
furnishings and heavy curtains are good too.

Thank you.

Rugs, yes have them, tick, covering the immediate area around the
notional speaker position.

Heavy curtain, tick (would be behind speakers/stands)
Large sofas, tick.

It's a thick wood floor (not laminate), laid on a concrete slab (modern
top floor flat).

I'd love to know a few brands/models to start listening to and if my
price bracket / wooden floor / will totally waste the amp's capability
- clearly listenting to my amp in a shop is not possible and a starting
point, before borrowing speakers would be nice.............but I
appreciate may not be realistic.

Thanks again

David

Speaker Advice
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

You want a wooden floor or you want good sound?

Laurence

I like my floor but you and colleagues have made it clear that a wooden
floor kills any chance of good sound reproduction, for which I thank
you - as it saves me spending more than a budget amount of a set of
speakers.

I won't waste any more of your time.



** Shut the door when you leave - ****head.




......... Phil

Speaker Advice
 

Phil

Fantastic couple of posts, I say, without any irony, you are a deeply
funny man, I suspect others would not credit you, but to write with
such energy takes a deeply evolved intellect.

You've made a serious day at the office deeply amusing.

Have a great weekend

Regards

David

Speaker Advice
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

Laurence Payne wrote:

Oh, don't worry about Phil and his attitude problem.

But speakers live in a room and the two must be considered together. I
like wooden floors too. But you might like to investigate the effect
of bringing your speakers a little closer to the listening position
and throwing a couple of rugs on the floor in-between. Soft
furnishings and heavy curtains are good too.

Thank you.

Rugs, yes have them, tick, covering the immediate area around the
notional speaker position.

Heavy curtain, tick (would be behind speakers/stands)
Large sofas, tick.

It's a thick wood floor (not laminate), laid on a concrete slab (modern
top floor flat).

I'd love to know a few brands/models to start listening to and if my
price bracket / wooden floor / will totally waste the amp's capability
- clearly listenting to my amp in a shop is not possible and a starting
point, before borrowing speakers would be nice.............but I
appreciate may not be realistic.



David, when I see *advice* being given/requested a little something in me
goes *ooh, ooh!* - when it's speaker advice a warning lamp comes on!

The speakers (in a given room, for a given taste) are where any kit will
fall down bigtime, if they are not right. Think carefully what sort of sound
you want - not all speakers will do everything, despite what some people
say/claim. Your budget is not vast and I suspect you intend to look at 'new'
stuff - I went down that road and tried 68 million different pairs from
*all* the major names and simply couldn't get what I wanted and have ended
up building my own!

Forget endless shop demos, they tell you nothing at the end of the day - if
at all possible try to get to hear different speakers at friend's houses to
get a rough idea, but given your budget constraints, if I were you I would
try to grab summat off eBay. My guess is you would be happy with any of
these for the time being:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Castle-Severn-...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NAIM-Intro-2-L...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ruark-Prologue...QQcmdZViewItem


Or these on stands (virtually free atm):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/B-W-DM-600-Lou...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/B-W-DM-602-S1-...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tannoy-QA-Sixe...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CYRUS-CLS-50-C...QQcmdZViewItem


(Travelling even a substantial distance to collect will only equate to
several trips to various shops for demos and you get the chance to meet the
seller as well as a check on the speakers - there's always a strong chance
he'll have another bargain not yet listed!!)

If you get summat for a bargain price (good time of the year right now) you
can then start saving for a *proper* pair of 'lifetime keeper' speakers at a
later date and there's every chance you'll get all your money back in the
future!!

Speaker Advice
 

Keith G wrote:
If you get summat for a bargain price (good time of the year right now) you
can then start saving for a *proper* pair of 'lifetime keeper' speakers at a
later date and there's every chance you'll get all your money back in the
future!!

Keith

Many thanks for your comments, which make total sense. I remember when
I bought my Missions 15yrs ago (as a kid) they were a massive amount of
money (relative) and I spent ages choosing them, I don't recall the
demo rooms sounding at all like my home setup did eventually.

I will have a look at those links after work.

Obviously my orignal post has attracted a broad spectrum of comments
but none suggesting the amp/cd player are a total waste of time which
is good!

Finally, thanks for taking some time doing some ebay research -
massively appreciated.

Regards

David

Speaker Advice
 

Phil Allison wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...


** Arrogant Groper Fool Alert


** Start by covering the floor of that room with thick mats or carpet.

Its is crime to destroy the sound of good speakers by putting them in an
echo chamber.

If no can do - just buy a pair or two of decent headphones.


Thanks for the quick response, carpet no, I like my wooden floor


** Fine - your priorities are now clear.

YOU simply have no interest in good sound reproduction.

YOU are just another ****** who likes to collect hi-fi trinkets.


Stop wasting everyone's time - go away.





.......... Phil

What a ****ing stupid response to someone who genuinely wants some
help.

These days bare floors are a compromise a lot of people have to live
with.

to O/P - a strategically placed rug or soft might help- back to your
question. I'd look for a used pair of Mission 752 Freedoms, which
worked well with the 8000A.

OR a different flavour would be Spendor/Harbeth.

make sure you listen with your amp in your room before parting with the
money - if you want to keep your bare floors, then try to sit as close
as poss to the speakers.

Speaker Advice
 

wrote in message
ps.com...

Keith G wrote:
If you get summat for a bargain price (good time of the year right now)
you
can then start saving for a *proper* pair of 'lifetime keeper' speakers
at a
later date and there's every chance you'll get all your money back in the
future!!

Keith

Many thanks for your comments, which make total sense. I remember when
I bought my Missions 15yrs ago (as a kid) they were a massive amount of
money (relative) and I spent ages choosing them, I don't recall the
demo rooms sounding at all like my home setup did eventually.

I will have a look at those links after work.

Obviously my orignal post has attracted a broad spectrum of comments
but none suggesting the amp/cd player are a total waste of time which
is good!

Finally, thanks for taking some time doing some ebay research -
massively appreciated.


You're very welcome - no chore for me, I *like* speakers!!

Btw, watch the Castle 7s - they are not very big....

You didn't state your main preference for music, there are some 'immutables'
which could come into play - kevlar cones for heavy rock/drum n' bass (due
to the way the do/don't deform under stress) or paper cones for vocals &c.
This may or may not work for everybody (naturally), but there's no point in
buying speakers which best excel at the 'wrong type' of music for you!

Also I hope it didn't look as though I was disparaging modern budget
speakers - they represent excellent value for money (trust me, you could not
even begin to replicate their appearance *alone* for what they cost!), it's
just that they seem so much better suited for 'modern' music and/or AV work
and it's not for nothing there's a considerable 'retromigration' these days
for the higher quality speakers from a few decades ago....

;-)

Speaker Advice
 

" wrote:

My living room has wooden floors and measures 6 x 3.5m

Mission 760s are probably going to sound a bit lost in there unless positioned
just at one end.


In terms of music I listen to lots of guitar based stuff, radiohead,
massive attack, muse, placebo etc.......

I know I need to listen before I buy, but some basic pointers in
relation to my amp/room size/music would be great........booksheld on
stands vs floorstanders

You probably need floorstanders. They can 'couple' better to the room for more
apparent bass response.


My 760's always sounded a bit flat with the amp, lacking bass, although
I have read that the amp is 'neutral'?

The amp won't change the bass


Any advice on speaker cable too would be good.

The cheapest you can get with a decent cross-sectional area ( the more mm2 the
better ). Cables don't have a 'sound' as such and they're all made of the same
stuff. Spend the money on something useful.

Graham

Speaker Advice
 

Phil Allison wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

** Arrogant Groper Fool Alert

** Start by covering the floor of that room with thick mats or carpet.

Its is crime to destroy the sound of good speakers by putting them in an
echo chamber.

If no can do - just buy a pair or two of decent headphones.

Thanks for the quick response, carpet no, I like my wooden floor

** Fine - your priorities are now clear.

YOU simply have no interest in good sound reproduction.

YOU are just another ****** who likes to collect hi-fi trinkets.

Stop wasting everyone's time - go away.

Maybe he likes a live sound. Plenty of studio control rooms have wooden floors
btw.

Graham

Speaker Advice
 

On 22 Sep 2006 00:59:32 -0700, "
wrote:

Now, I've no idea where to start, and what to start listening to. I've
done Googling and Quads 11L's get mentioned a few times in relation to
the Amp.


I also have a pair of Quad 11L speakers and find them very nice for
the price. One important point is that they have, like many other
speakers, rear-facing bass reflex ports. This means that they do not
take kindly to being close to walls or, worse, corners.

--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

Speaker Advice
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

Oh, don't worry about Phil and his attitude problem.

But speakers live in a room and the two must be considered together. I
like wooden floors too. But you might like to investigate the effect
of bringing your speakers a little closer to the listening position
and throwing a couple of rugs on the floor in-between. Soft
furnishings and heavy curtains are good too.

I'll go with that.

Graham

Speaker Advice
 

" wrote:

Laurence Payne wrote:

Oh, don't worry about Phil and his attitude problem.

But speakers live in a room and the two must be considered together. I
like wooden floors too. But you might like to investigate the effect
of bringing your speakers a little closer to the listening position
and throwing a couple of rugs on the floor in-between. Soft
furnishings and heavy curtains are good too.

Thank you.

Rugs, yes have them, tick, covering the immediate area around the
notional speaker position.

Heavy curtain, tick (would be behind speakers/stands)
Large sofas, tick.

It's a thick wood floor (not laminate), laid on a concrete slab (modern
top floor flat).

I'd love to know a few brands/models to start listening to and if my
price bracket / wooden floor / will totally waste the amp's capability
- clearly listenting to my amp in a shop is not possible and a starting
point, before borrowing speakers would be nice.............but I
appreciate may not be realistic.

The ampliifer makes sod all difference really. Except for extreme cases ( and
valve equipment ) there is no significant 'interestion' between an amp and the
speakers ( short of dismal design ).

Graham

Speaker Advice
 

On 22 Sep 2006 04:33:04 -0700, "
wrote:

I'd love to know a few brands/models to start listening to and if my
price bracket / wooden floor / will totally waste the amp's capability
- clearly listenting to my amp in a shop is not possible and a starting
point, before borrowing speakers would be nice.............but I
appreciate may not be realistic.

The amp and CD player, as long as they're competent, will have minimal
impact on sound quality. You're listening to the speakers, in the
room. (Well, actually, far more important again you're listing to the
performance and the recording.)

The Quad 11L you mention are small speakers with 5" bass drivers. You
might prefer your Mission 760s. What don't you like about them?

Speaker Advice
 

David wrote:

...My living room has wooden floors...

Perhaps there could be a market for wood-effect carpet?

cheers, Ian

Speaker Advice
 

"Tim"

** Arrogant Groper Audiophool ****wit Alert

( is there any other kind?)



** Start by covering the floor of that room with thick mats or carpet.

Its is crime to destroy the sound of good speakers by putting them in
an
echo chamber.

If no can do - just buy a pair or two of decent headphones.


Thanks for the quick response, carpet no, I like my wooden floor


** Fine - your priorities are now clear.

YOU simply have no interest in good sound reproduction.

YOU are just another ****** who likes to collect hi-fi trinkets.


Stop wasting everyone's time - go away.



What a ****ing stupid response to someone who genuinely wants some
help.


** ******** !!

The idiot OP only wanted to have his WRONG ideas re-enforced.

Know nothing ****s like YOU are happy to oblige.



These days bare floors are a compromise a lot of people have to live
with.


** ********.



to O/P - a strategically placed rug or soft might help


** More ********.





.......... Phil

Speaker Advice
 

The Quad 11L you mention are small speakers with 5" bass drivers. You
might prefer your Mission 760s. What don't you like about them?

Laurence,

My 760s are pretty ugly/beat up as result of several house moves/uni
moves, showing their 15yrs...........plus I always though they sounded
guttless with the audiolab amp (comments on the effect of the amp on
sound now noted).

I would note that they've always beeen on stands, with a carpeted room.
I had them in various positions in terms of wall distance, distance
apart etc...........no bass to speak of.

I am after something that has low volume 'guts' as i live in a flat I
wont be cranking the volume up to 11 very often

The comments on floor standers are interesting, always wanted some,
admitantly more for aesthetics than anything else............but as
someone else said the speakers and room should work
together................my girlfriend has to have some input too, as
it's her lounge too.

Thanks all who've responded to date.

Dave

Speaker Advice
 

You can break up the reflections without going as far as carpeting by
scattering some sheepskin rugs about, I had to do this in a shiny
wooden floored apartment, better than nothing


wrote:
** Start by covering the floor of that room with thick mats or carpet.

Its is crime to destroy the sound of good speakers by putting them in an
echo chamber.

If no can do - just buy a pair or two of decent headphones.




....... Phil

Phil

Thanks for the quick response, carpet no, I like my wooden floor - I
note your comments though. I have some okay (prob budget for this
group) £100 Sennheiser headphones. I do need some loud speakers
though.

Thanks

David

Speaker Advice
 

"Robert Deas"

** TOP POSTING Groper alert !


You can break up the reflections without going as far as carpeting by
scattering some sheepskin rugs about, I had to do this in a shiny
wooden floored apartment, better than nothing


** Read the first line of my post - what does it say ??

A few floor mats in an otherwise bare room IS better than nothing - in
the same way a packet of confetti is better than having no toilet paper at
all.



......... Phil



** Start by covering the floor of that room with thick mats or carpet.

Its is crime to destroy the sound of good speakers by putting them in an
echo chamber.

If no can do - just buy a pair or two of decent headphones.


Phil

Thanks for the quick response, carpet no, I like my wooden floor - I
note your comments though. I have some okay (prob budget for this
group) £100 Sennheiser headphones. I do need some loud speakers
though.

Thanks

David