There are a few 'wiseacres' here that know it all and will trot out the
stale, old 'FR drivers in horns have no top or bottom octave' hearsay
horse****.

Judge for yourselves - here are two 'identical' clips (end of one track,
beginning of another) of extremely complex/crowded music recorded OPEN MIC
with only a peewee little lapel mic (all I got) with digital/SS everything
except the power amp on the EX3 clip, which is 300B SET valve. No editing
whatsoever, other than a Fade In and Out at the ends to lessen the shock!

This clip is the Lowther PM6C drivers in the Jericho cabinet (10.5 Mb):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Clip%20PM6C.mp3

This one is the Lowther EX3 drivers in the 'InFidelio' cabinet (10.5):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Clip%20EX3.mp3

It's a job for decent headphones - my computer setup can't resolve the
detail and smart people will overlook the nasty (computer) recording noises
and make the necessary allowance for MP3 compression. Needless to say these
recordings are not the 'Full Monty' (not all that I hear) and a bit
monotonous in the bass, but they will give you some idea - it would be easy
to post summat a lot more sonorous, 'musical' and tinkly, but that wouldn't
prove the point.....

Not much to *enjoy* here, I'm sorry to say - a tough mission*, should you
choose to accept it!

Comments/criticism welcome as always.


* But not *impossible*....!! ;-)

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:10:37 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


There are a few 'wiseacres' here that know it all and will trot out the
stale, old 'FR drivers in horns have no top or bottom octave' hearsay
horse****.

Judge for yourselves - here are two 'identical' clips (end of one track,
beginning of another) of extremely complex/crowded music recorded OPEN MIC
with only a peewee little lapel mic (all I got) with digital/SS everything
except the power amp on the EX3 clip, which is 300B SET valve. No editing
whatsoever, other than a Fade In and Out at the ends to lessen the shock!

This clip is the Lowther PM6C drivers in the Jericho cabinet (10.5 Mb):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Clip%20PM6C.mp3

This one is the Lowther EX3 drivers in the 'InFidelio' cabinet (10.5):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Clip%20EX3.mp3

It's a job for decent headphones - my computer setup can't resolve the
detail and smart people will overlook the nasty (computer) recording noises
and make the necessary allowance for MP3 compression. Needless to say these
recordings are not the 'Full Monty' (not all that I hear) and a bit
monotonous in the bass, but they will give you some idea - it would be easy
to post summat a lot more sonorous, 'musical' and tinkly, but that wouldn't
prove the point.....

Not much to *enjoy* here, I'm sorry to say - a tough mission*, should you
choose to accept it!

Comments/criticism welcome as always.


* But not *impossible*....!! ;-)


Well, you haven't helped your case any here, Keith. These clips both
bear out the idea that top and bottom octaves are missing. There is
nothing significant below 60Hz, and they resemble the side of a cliff
above about 10kHz. Whether that is to do with the speaker, source
material or mic is tricky to say, but we work with what we have.

Now - details. The PM6es come out a couple of dBs louder than the EXes
- enough in fact to cause quite a lot of clipping (never wanted when
you are trying to assess top octave performance). Is that just the
volume settings on the amps? I guess it is.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:10:37 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


There are a few 'wiseacres' here that know it all and will trot out the
stale, old 'FR drivers in horns have no top or bottom octave' hearsay
horse****.

Judge for yourselves - here are two 'identical' clips (end of one track,
beginning of another) of extremely complex/crowded music recorded OPEN MIC
with only a peewee little lapel mic (all I got) with digital/SS everything
except the power amp on the EX3 clip, which is 300B SET valve. No editing
whatsoever, other than a Fade In and Out at the ends to lessen the shock!

This clip is the Lowther PM6C drivers in the Jericho cabinet (10.5 Mb):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Clip%20PM6C.mp3

This one is the Lowther EX3 drivers in the 'InFidelio' cabinet (10.5):

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Clip%20EX3.mp3

It's a job for decent headphones - my computer setup can't resolve the
detail and smart people will overlook the nasty (computer) recording
noises
and make the necessary allowance for MP3 compression. Needless to say
these
recordings are not the 'Full Monty' (not all that I hear) and a bit
monotonous in the bass, but they will give you some idea - it would be
easy
to post summat a lot more sonorous, 'musical' and tinkly, but that
wouldn't
prove the point.....

Not much to *enjoy* here, I'm sorry to say - a tough mission*, should you
choose to accept it!

Comments/criticism welcome as always.


* But not *impossible*....!! ;-)


Well, you haven't helped your case any here, Keith. These clips both
bear out the idea that top and bottom octaves are missing. There is
nothing significant below 60Hz, and they resemble the side of a cliff
above about 10kHz. Whether that is to do with the speaker, source
material or mic is tricky to say, but we work with what we have.

Now - details. The PM6es come out a couple of dBs louder than the EXes
- enough in fact to cause quite a lot of clipping (never wanted when
you are trying to assess top octave performance). Is that just the
volume settings on the amps? I guess it is.



OK, the flames are licking round my willy and I can't get the fekkin' canopy
open!! :-[

Assuming I get out in time, later/later (or maybe even tomorrow) I will
record a track from an 'enhancer disk' which sweeps from 20 to 20,480 Hz at
the rate of + one octave every 12 seconds. This track is 2:02 long - I can
hear (feel) it immediately (on the PM6Cs at least - just checked) and
eventually lose it at 1:52 - the Vivanco EM216 lapel mic I'm using ain't
*ever* going to get the low stuff, but I'll give it a go!

Thanks for your response, Don - *always* (really *always*) useful!!

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:26:00 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Assuming I get out in time, later/later (or maybe even tomorrow) I will
record a track from an 'enhancer disk' which sweeps from 20 to 20,480 Hz at
the rate of + one octave every 12 seconds.

Oh you really aren't going to like the look of what that shows. Rooms
are just horrible.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article ,
says...

There are a few 'wiseacres' here that know it all and will trot out the
stale, old 'FR drivers in horns have no top or bottom octave' hearsay
horse****.

Judge for yourselves - here are two 'identical' clips (end of one track,
beginning of another) of extremely complex/crowded music recorded OPEN MIC
with only a peewee little lapel mic

Never mind the width.. What are the tracks Keith ?

T.

"Tony Gartshore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

There are a few 'wiseacres' here that know it all and will trot out the
stale, old 'FR drivers in horns have no top or bottom octave' hearsay
horse****.

Judge for yourselves - here are two 'identical' clips (end of one track,
beginning of another) of extremely complex/crowded music recorded OPEN
MIC
with only a peewee little lapel mic

Never mind the width.. What are the tracks Keith ?


No idea atm, Tony (and I'm late for outta here) - they are the end and
beginning of two consecutive trax on the 'The Abduction Of The Art Of Noise'
CD.

I could find them later....??

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:26:00 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Assuming I get out in time, later/later (or maybe even tomorrow) I will
record a track from an 'enhancer disk' which sweeps from 20 to 20,480 Hz at
the rate of + one octave every 12 seconds.


Oh you really aren't going to like the look of what that shows. Rooms
are just horrible.

d


You may be better using white/pink noise Keith, single tones will just
show all sorts of peaks that just don't matter.

If you haven't any to hand, I put some wav's you for you to grab.

--
Nick

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:26:00 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Assuming I get out in time, later/later (or maybe even tomorrow) I will
record a track from an 'enhancer disk' which sweeps from 20 to 20,480 Hz
at
the rate of + one octave every 12 seconds.

Oh you really aren't going to like the look of what that shows. Rooms
are just horrible.


OK, this is the CD track I intend to use - let me know if there's anything
unsuitable about it?

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Tone%20Sweep.mp3


Also, can you confirm the start frequency - I have no trouble hearing it
from the very start, even on the computer setup with 2.5 inch drivers...??

Right, orf aht for a while now....

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:26:00 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Assuming I get out in time, later/later (or maybe even tomorrow) I will
record a track from an 'enhancer disk' which sweeps from 20 to 20,480 Hz
at the rate of + one octave every 12 seconds.


Oh you really aren't going to like the look of what that shows. Rooms
are just horrible.

d


You may be better using white/pink noise Keith, single tones will just
show all sorts of peaks that just don't matter.


Hmm, the next track is "Like 11 but with band-limited noise added. Sometimes
easier to use." - would this be better??


If you haven't any to hand, I put some wav's you for you to grab.


OK...

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:17:13 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 16:26:00 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


Assuming I get out in time, later/later (or maybe even tomorrow) I will
record a track from an 'enhancer disk' which sweeps from 20 to 20,480 Hz
at
the rate of + one octave every 12 seconds.

Oh you really aren't going to like the look of what that shows. Rooms
are just horrible.


OK, this is the CD track I intend to use - let me know if there's anything
unsuitable about it?

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Tone%20Sweep.mp3


Also, can you confirm the start frequency - I have no trouble hearing it
from the very start, even on the computer setup with 2.5 inch drivers...??

Right, orf aht for a while now....




It starts out at 20Hz OK, but it really is unsuitable for the job. It
will spark off every standing wave in the room, and you really will be
shocked at how lumpy it is. Take up Nick's offer - it will be miles
better.

That sort of sweep is really only for internal testing of equipment,
not for rooms.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com