Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

http://www.smh.com.au/news/reviews/t...816235806.html

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"APR" wrote in message
...

http://www.smh.com.au/news/reviews/t...816235806.html



Interesting article - thanks for the link! I have seen this sort thing a
number of times now - good to see it works 'down under' also!!

Note the point that people are not buying dedicated CDPs and the inference
that many people play them on other spinners like DVDPs - it doesn't mean
the ratio of CD to LP buying/playing is any way changed, obviously. It was
actually mirrored in one of the local shops a while back, where a friend
works. He said they weren't flogging any CDPs at all and that the great
majority of customers for audio stuff (not AV) at the time, were for
vinyl-related items - carts in particular!

(He's off long-term sick atm, so I don't know what the current position
is....??)

The only reason I thump the vinyl tub* here is because a (very) small number
of people are in complete *denial* on the subject and have tried to talk it
into oblivion - waste of fakkin' time, I'm afraid, the true 'audio
enthusiasts' (not the Chav mass-market who can be fed anything) aren't
listening, it would appear!! ;-)


*Otherwise, who cares/GAS what some people think of vinyl....???

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The only reason I thump the vinyl tub* here is because a (very) small
number of people are in complete *denial* on the subject and have tried
to talk it into oblivion - waste of fakkin' time, I'm afraid, the true
'audio enthusiasts' (not the Chav mass-market who can be fed anything)
aren't listening, it would appear!! ;-)

Wonder what on *earth* you think you mean about 'denial'. To me suggests a
secret love of vinyl while publicly expressing a preference for CD. Well,
I've got news for you...

However, you're the one who is the evangelist for vinyl. Despite there
being a dedicated vinyl group - which few appear to use, even although
it's on the same infrastructure as this one so readily accessible. So the
only logical conclusion is you have a need to try and convert others to
your love of what is an essentially flawed and outdated system.

--
*Avoid clichés like the plague. (They're old hat.) *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"APR" wrote in message


http://www.smh.com.au/news/reviews/t...816235806.html

I don't know how pricing runs down under, but in the USA DVD players are
often less costly than CD players. Since the DVD players play CDs, the
response of a logical buyer seems obvious.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The only reason I thump the vinyl tub* here is because a (very) small
number of people are in complete *denial* on the subject and have tried
to talk it into oblivion - waste of fakkin' time, I'm afraid, the true
'audio enthusiasts' (not the Chav mass-market who can be fed anything)
aren't listening, it would appear!! ;-)

Wonder what on *earth* you think you mean about 'denial'. To me suggests a
secret love of vinyl while publicly expressing a preference for CD. Well,
I've got news for you...

However, you're the one who is the evangelist for vinyl. Despite there
being a dedicated vinyl group - which few appear to use, even although
it's on the same infrastructure as this one so readily accessible. So the
only logical conclusion is you have a need to try and convert others to
your love of what is an essentially flawed and outdated system.


Logic? What like:

Abraham Lincoln liked meat.

Dogs like meat.

Therefore Abraham Lincoln was a dog...???

You seem to be missing my occasional 'I don't give a FF who
likes/uses/prefers vinyl or who doesn't!' remarks! I'm no Evangelist, I'm
not even an advocate - I'm only an enthusiast.

(I think it's a 'relativity' thing - if you stand perfectly still in a rush
hour tube station, someone will accuse you of going against the flow....???)

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"APR" wrote in message


http://www.smh.com.au/news/reviews/t...816235806.html

I don't know how pricing runs down under, but in the USA DVD players are
often less costly than CD players. Since the DVD players play CDs, the
response of a logical buyer seems obvious.

Hi Arny, I don't have a dedicated CD player but use a DVD/CD player. A real
cheap DVD player in Aust. can be had for AU$50-$100, not sure what the
output quality would be like, but imagine it would be more then acceptable
to the majority of people. I bought a low end Pioneer DVD that will also do
SACD and find it to be brilliant for the money playing ordinary audio CD's.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The only reason I thump the vinyl tub* here is because a (very) small
number of people are in complete *denial* on the subject and have
tried to talk it into oblivion - waste of fakkin' time, I'm afraid,
the true 'audio enthusiasts' (not the Chav mass-market who can be fed
anything) aren't listening, it would appear!! ;-)

Wonder what on *earth* you think you mean about 'denial'. To me
suggests a secret love of vinyl while publicly expressing a preference
for CD. Well, I've got news for you...

However, you're the one who is the evangelist for vinyl. Despite there
being a dedicated vinyl group - which few appear to use, even although
it's on the same infrastructure as this one so readily accessible. So
the only logical conclusion is you have a need to try and convert
others to your love of what is an essentially flawed and outdated
system.


Logic? What like:

Abraham Lincoln liked meat.

Dogs like meat.

Therefore Abraham Lincoln was a dog...???

You seem to be missing my occasional 'I don't give a FF who
likes/uses/prefers vinyl or who doesn't!' remarks! I'm no Evangelist,
I'm not even an advocate - I'm only an enthusiast.

No matter how often you state such a view you simply don't come across in
this way in general - the paragraph I replied to is a perfect example. You
never miss a chance to emphasise how good you think vinyl is. And seem to
want the world to join you.

--
*'Progress' and 'Change' are not synonyms.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The only reason I thump the vinyl tub* here is because a (very) small
number of people are in complete *denial* on the subject and have
tried to talk it into oblivion - waste of fakkin' time, I'm afraid,
the true 'audio enthusiasts' (not the Chav mass-market who can be fed
anything) aren't listening, it would appear!! ;-)

Wonder what on *earth* you think you mean about 'denial'. To me
suggests a secret love of vinyl while publicly expressing a preference
for CD. Well, I've got news for you...

However, you're the one who is the evangelist for vinyl. Despite there
being a dedicated vinyl group - which few appear to use, even although
it's on the same infrastructure as this one so readily accessible. So
the only logical conclusion is you have a need to try and convert
others to your love of what is an essentially flawed and outdated
system.


Logic? What like:

Abraham Lincoln liked meat.

Dogs like meat.

Therefore Abraham Lincoln was a dog...???

You seem to be missing my occasional 'I don't give a FF who
likes/uses/prefers vinyl or who doesn't!' remarks! I'm no Evangelist,
I'm not even an advocate - I'm only an enthusiast.

No matter how often you state such a view you simply don't come across in
this way in general


??

What? Enthusiastic??


- the paragraph I replied to is a perfect example. You
never miss a chance to emphasise how good you think vinyl is. And seem to
want the world to join you.


Do I ****. How many times do have to say it - I really don't give a rat's
arse who uses/likes vinyl or who doesn't.

rationale typed and snipped

Frankly Plowie, if you don't like what I type, don't read it!

It's as simple as that.....

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Frankly Plowie, if you don't like what I type, don't read it!

Then why make contentious statements if you don't want others to disagree
with them?
Or perhaps you don't think saying things like 'in denial' contentious?

--
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Frankly Plowie, if you don't like what I type, don't read it!

Then why make contentious statements if you don't want others to disagree
with them?
Or perhaps you don't think saying things like 'in denial' contentious?


Try this:

You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think vinyl is. And seem to
want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Then why make contentious statements if you don't want others to
disagree with them? Or perhaps you don't think saying things like 'in
denial' contentious?


Try this:

You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think vinyl is.

No - I emphasise the fact that it can't compare to CD in like for like
terms. Ie, the very finest vinyl will not be as good as the very finest CD.
That some CDs are poorly made in whatever way is neither here nor there.
As, of course, were many vinyl records.

And seem to want the world to join you.

I personally couldn't care less and simply respond to the extravagant
claims made on here for vinyl - including by some who should know
better. ;-)

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Then why make contentious statements if you don't want others to
disagree with them? Or perhaps you don't think saying things like 'in
denial' contentious?


Try this:

You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think vinyl is.

No - I emphasise the fact that it can't compare to CD in like for like
terms. Ie, the very finest vinyl will not be as good as the very finest
CD.


Absolute rubbish.


That some CDs are poorly made in whatever way is neither here nor there.
As, of course, were many vinyl records.


Agreed.


And seem to want the world to join you.

I personally couldn't care less and simply respond to the extravagant
claims made on here for vinyl - including by some who should know
better. ;-)


And I only respond when I see 'denial' of the following:

That many believe LP can sound a lot better than CD.

That many people play and enjoy LPs.

That LPs and 45s are still being manufactured.

That there are continuing/increasing 'high volume' sales of turntables and
other associated products - carts &c....

(See even the Oz newspaper article....)

That no vinylist I know has any strong view about others not liking it.

....by some who should know better... ;-)

Now, if these Denial Boyz just said 'I think vinyl sounds ****e' I'd say
'fine' and move on.

If the Denial Boyz said nothing at all, I would probably do the same...

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25 years ago.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25 years ago.



It describes nothing for me.

Do you have any strong views on horse-riding, by any chance...???

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
And I only respond when I see 'denial' of the following:

That many believe LP can sound a lot better than CD.

Absolutely nothing I've ever read on here 'denies' this.

That many people play and enjoy LPs.

Likewise.

That LPs and 45s are still being manufactured.

Likewise.

That there are continuing/increasing 'high volume' sales of turntables
and other associated products - carts &c....

(See even the Oz newspaper article....)

Depends on what you mean by 'high'. Most would consider high to be at
least approaching the sales of equipment to play CDs etc, and this just
isn't the case.

That no vinylist I know has any strong view about others not liking it.

Apart from yourself?

...by some who should know better... ;-)

Now, if these Denial Boyz just said 'I think vinyl sounds ****e' I'd say
'fine' and move on.

You might - but in your next post will be raving on about it.

If the Denial Boyz said nothing at all, I would probably do the same...

I see you've still not taken on board the true meaning of 'in denial'. I'm
surprised, given you've said you have experience of alcoholism.

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25 years ago.

Perhaps Keith wasn't around the audio scene then. When CD appeared, only a
few flat earth types or those with vested interests found fault with it.
Now it seems to be shared with the above, and those who don't understand -
or want to understand - the processes involved in making the recording you
listen to at home.

--
*A snooze button is a poor substitute for no alarm clock at all *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
And I only respond when I see 'denial' of the following:

That many believe LP can sound a lot better than CD.

Absolutely nothing I've ever read on here 'denies' this.

That many people play and enjoy LPs.

Likewise.

That LPs and 45s are still being manufactured.

Likewise.

That there are continuing/increasing 'high volume' sales of turntables
and other associated products - carts &c....

(See even the Oz newspaper article....)

Depends on what you mean by 'high'. Most would consider high to be at
least approaching the sales of equipment to play CDs etc, and this just
isn't the case.

That no vinylist I know has any strong view about others not liking it.

Apart from yourself?

...by some who should know better... ;-)

Now, if these Denial Boyz just said 'I think vinyl sounds ****e' I'd say
'fine' and move on.

You might - but in your next post will be raving on about it.

If the Denial Boyz said nothing at all, I would probably do the same...

I see you've still not taken on board the true meaning of 'in denial'. I'm
surprised, given you've said you have experience of alcoholism.


Alcoholism???

WTF are you on about - I'm 99.99% teetotal...?? (4, 5 or maybe 6 cold beers
all this *year*...??)

You've gone all slashy and slanderous Plowie, or you're mixing me up with
someone else here..???

But, whatever, you've demonstrated *yet again* that you can only go a few
weeks before posting twisted, maggotty crap like all of the above. Yet
another wasted opportunity to brighten up your sad, little life. I've cut
you a lot more slack than I would normally bother to do with someone like
you, but I'm done with you now....

Welcome to my ****ter....

*splash*

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I see you've still not taken on board the true meaning of 'in denial'.
I'm surprised, given you've said you have experience of alcoholism.


Alcoholism???

WTF are you on about - I'm 99.99% teetotal...?? (4, 5 or maybe 6 cold
beers all this *year*...??)

You've gone all slashy and slanderous Plowie, or you're mixing me up
with someone else here..???

OK. But then I suggest you find out what the term 'in denial' means, since
it's commonly used in association with addiction of all kinds.

--
*When cheese gets it's picture taken, what does it say?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25
years ago.



It describes nothing for me.

Do you have any strong views on horse-riding, by any
chance...???

Yeah, I'd rather drive, fly, hike or paddle a canoe.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message
In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25
years ago.

Perhaps Keith wasn't around the audio scene then. When CD
appeared, only a few flat earth types or those with
vested interests found fault with it.

Agreed.

Now it seems to be
shared with the above, and those who don't understand -
or want to understand - the processes involved in making
the recording you listen to at home.

Making a LP is like making sausage or laws - if you have a weak stomach, you
don't want to know the gorey details, and there are plenty.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25
years ago.



It describes nothing for me.

Do you have any strong views on horse-riding, by any
chance...???

Yeah, I'd rather drive, fly, hike or paddle a canoe.



If someone told you they preferred horse riding you'd batter them to death
with the *flaws of horses* and compare it endlessly to your canoe then?

You forgot motorcycling, btw...

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message
In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25
years ago.

Perhaps Keith wasn't around the audio scene then. When CD
appeared, only a few flat earth types or those with
vested interests found fault with it.

Agreed.

Now it seems to be
shared with the above, and those who don't understand -
or want to understand - the processes involved in making
the recording you listen to at home.

Making a LP is like making sausage or laws - if you have a weak stomach,
you don't want to know the gorey details, and there are plenty.



You will be delighted to know that my own preference for vinyl is probably
no more than 10 years old. I remember CDs coming out - made about as much
impression on me as the advent of electric pencil-sharpeners at the
time.....

I had better things to do then than worry about *hifi*....

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25
years ago.



It describes nothing for me.

Do you have any strong views on horse-riding, by any
chance...???

Yeah, I'd rather drive, fly, hike or paddle a canoe.

If someone told you they preferred horse riding you'd
batter them to death with the *flaws of horses* and
compare it endlessly to your canoe then?

Nahh, the fun would begin when they told me a horse was better for crossing
lakes than a canoe, which is in effect what goes on here all the time.

You forgot motorcycling, btw...

I'm OK with motorcycles.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25
years ago.



It describes nothing for me.

Do you have any strong views on horse-riding, by any
chance...???

Yeah, I'd rather drive, fly, hike or paddle a canoe.

If someone told you they preferred horse riding you'd
batter them to death with the *flaws of horses* and
compare it endlessly to your canoe then?

Nahh, the fun would begin when they told me a horse was better for
crossing lakes than a canoe, which is in effect what goes on here all the
time.



Lakes? Why stop there? Why not the Atlantic?

Oh, hang on a minute - you Yanks don't do that any more do you...??

(Your metaphor stinks almost as bad as your arguements against other peoples
preferences...)


You forgot motorcycling, btw...

I'm OK with motorcycles.


I sincerely *doubt* that....

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players inAussie according to a local newspaper.
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Then why make contentious statements if you don't want others to
disagree with them? Or perhaps you don't think saying things like 'in
denial' contentious?


Try this:

You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think vinyl is.

No - I emphasise the fact that it can't compare to CD in like for like
terms. Ie, the very finest vinyl will not be as good as the very finest CD.
That some CDs are poorly made in whatever way is neither here nor there.
As, of course, were many vinyl records.


What a peculiar set of statements! You should be aware that many find
vinyl is at least as good as CD in like for like terms: fact.

And seem to want the world to join you.

I personally couldn't care less and simply respond to the extravagant
claims made on here for vinyl - including by some who should know
better. ;-)


Extravagant claims?! What did you have in mind?

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Rob" wrote in
message
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Then why make contentious statements if you don't want
others to disagree with them? Or perhaps you don't
think saying things like 'in denial' contentious?


Try this:

You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is.

No - I emphasise the fact that it can't compare to CD in
like for like terms. Ie, the very finest vinyl will not
be as good as the very finest CD.

A LP can't possibly duplicate the dynamic range and frequency response
flattness in the audio range of a CD.

That some CDs are
poorly made in whatever way is neither here nor there.

Of course.

As, of course, were many vinyl records.

One of the problems that the CD format solved were the high rate of returns
of defective LPs, in the day of.

What a peculiar set of statements! You should be aware
that many find vinyl is at least as good as CD in like
for like terms: fact.

Actually, pretty factual.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

In article ,
Rob wrote:
No - I emphasise the fact that it can't compare to CD in like for like
terms. Ie, the very finest vinyl will not be as good as the very
finest CD. That some CDs are poorly made in whatever way is neither
here nor there. As, of course, were many vinyl records.


What a peculiar set of statements! You should be aware that many find
vinyl is at least as good as CD in like for like terms: fact.

Perhaps background noise doesn't bother you. Distortion - increasing as
you reach the centre of the disc. Wear and tear. Even more clicks and pops
as they get older.

Yes, truly vinyl is as good as CD.

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Then why make contentious statements if you don't want others to
disagree with them? Or perhaps you don't think saying things like 'in
denial' contentious?


Try this:

You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think vinyl is.

No - I emphasise the fact that it can't compare to CD in like for like
terms. Ie, the very finest vinyl will not be as good as the very finest CD.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. but it is hardly
definitive. Nor is it shared by many very experienced listeners.


That some CDs are poorly made in whatever way is neither here nor there.
As, of course, were many vinyl records.

Now that just sounds like you don't really care about sound quality
when it comes to listening to music. The fact that many musically
significant titles have never been released on a decent sounding CD
matters greatly.



And seem to want the world to join you.

I personally couldn't care less and simply respond to the extravagant
claims made on here for vinyl - including by some who should know
better. ;-)

Indeed, you and your likeminded pals seem to be making many such claims
just so you have something to argue against.

Scott

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

In article .com,
wrote:
No - I emphasise the fact that it can't compare to CD in like for like
terms. Ie, the very finest vinyl will not be as good as the very
finest CD.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. but it is hardly
definitive. Nor is it shared by many very experienced listeners.

Usually for the wrong reasons as you're about to state...


That some CDs are poorly made in whatever way is neither here nor
there. As, of course, were many vinyl records.

Now that just sounds like you don't really care about sound quality
when it comes to listening to music. The fact that many musically
significant titles have never been released on a decent sounding CD
matters greatly.

See what I mean? How can the quality of the CD system be influenced by the
fact that certain performances haven't been released on it? Or didn't you
understand the 'like for like' part?

And seem to want the world to join you.

I personally couldn't care less and simply respond to the extravagant
claims made on here for vinyl - including by some who should know
better. ;-)

Indeed, you and your likeminded pals seem to be making many such claims
just so you have something to argue against.

I'll say this only once more. Take the finest master of any type of music
you want. Transfer to CD and LP directly with no alteration other than to
make sure the maximum level for either isn't exceeded. Now compare the two
to the master using properly controlled testing conditions.

There will be a distinct difference between the master and the LP, and
this will be shown up by the results. There will be a definite pattern to
the answers given which will identify each.
Now do the same with the CD. You'll get totally random answers.

That some prefer the distortion that LP adds is neither here nor there.
Everyone is entitled to their view. But when that distortion gets
described in all sorts of flowery language by the vinyl evangelists,
expect the real world to bite back...

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

wrote in message
oups.com
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

No - I emphasise the fact that it can't compare to CD in
like for like terms. Ie, the very finest vinyl will not
be as good as the very finest CD.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. but it is
hardly definitive. Nor is it shared by many very
experienced listeners.

That is a very misleading statement. No doubt completely intentional. There
are about 400,000 people who think they are "experienced listeners" in the
US, so even just 1% of them is 4,000 people which is "very many experienced
listeners".

BTW, the 400,000 "experienced listeners" I estiamte in the US is roughly
composed of 200,000 high end audiophiles and 200,000 home and professional
recordists.

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
No - I emphasise the fact that it can't compare to CD in like for like
terms. Ie, the very finest vinyl will not be as good as the very
finest CD.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. but it is hardly
definitive. Nor is it shared by many very experienced listeners.

Usually for the wrong reasons as you're about to state...


For the wrong reasons? Please do explain how such experienced listeners
as Doug Sax, James Boyk, Steve Hoffman, Keith Johnson etc prefer LP to
CD at their best for the "wrong" reasons.




That some CDs are poorly made in whatever way is neither here nor
there. As, of course, were many vinyl records.

Now that just sounds like you don't really care about sound quality
when it comes to listening to music. The fact that many musically
significant titles have never been released on a decent sounding CD
matters greatly.

See what I mean?

No.


How can the quality of the CD system be influenced by the
fact that certain performances haven't been released on it?


That wasn't what I said. Tyr to pay attention. Or do you just don't
understand the idea of CDs that aren't even decent sounding?

Or didn't you
understand the 'like for like' part?

Indeed I did. You are the one arbitrarily trying to combine two
seperate issues. Not me. CD and LP at their best is not the same as CDs
and LPs of the same commercial titles. But anybody who cares about
sound quality when listening to music will be concerned with both and
more often concerned with the one issue you try to disregard. That is
why I say it would appear you really aren't all that concerned about
sound quality when listening to music.



And seem to want the world to join you.

I personally couldn't care less and simply respond to the extravagant
claims made on here for vinyl - including by some who should know
better. ;-)

Indeed, you and your likeminded pals seem to be making many such claims
just so you have something to argue against.

I'll say this only once more. Take the finest master of any type of music
you want. Transfer to CD and LP directly with no alteration other than to
make sure the maximum level for either isn't exceeded. Now compare the two
to the master using properly controlled testing conditions.

I have. The LP sounded better. By the way the guy that engineered that
recording did the same and drew the same conclusion. He was there to
listen to the original sound and the mic feed. What about you? You ever
engineer a recording then compare the commercial CD and LP both made
with no tweaking to determine which format better represents the
original sound?



There will be a distinct difference between the master and the LP, and
this will be shown up by the results. There will be a definite pattern to
the answers given which will identify each.
Now do the same with the CD. You'll get totally random answers.

Wrong. But I am speaking in reference to actual comparisons. You are
just talking the talk.




That some prefer the distortion that LP adds is neither here nor there.


Wrong again. iT is significant.



Everyone is entitled to their view. But when that distortion gets
described in all sorts of flowery language by the vinyl evangelists,
expect the real world to bite back...


What makes you think you represent the real world? I expect
objectivists who worship measurements over the listening experience to
bite back. When their arguments are scrutinized it turns out they are
just biting themselves in the ass.Kind of like what you are doing now.


Scott

Hello Keith G - More turntables being sold then CD players in Aussie according to a local newspaper.
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote in message


You never miss a chance to emphasise how bad you think
vinyl is. And seem to want the world to join you.

Does that work for you?

It works for me.

It describes what actually happened starting about 25 years ago.

Arny, may I ask you a question?
Are you happy with ythe quality of CD production?
and are you happy with the compression and exaggerated smiley
EQ from which so many CDs suffer?

Iain