Keith G wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:
One would think from your post that one's ability to solder has
something to do with one's ability to make aesthetic judgements. Do
I hve to tell you just how stupid that idea is? Engineers do the
work the hobbyists consume it.

So they're mutually exclusive?

The ability to solder and the ability to make aestheic judgemens? Yes
they are.

Wonder what your only 'supporter' Mr G will make of that?

I'll bet he agrees. I think he is smart enough to know his soldering
skills are independent of his listening skills.

He loves to
build kit


Yes I have noticed that. I have yet to see him claim that his skills at
building has any impact on his listening skills.

and is the vinyl disciple to end all disciples.


Disciple? I know he generally prefers LPs over CDs. I guess you can't
wrap your punny brain around that so you have to attack it. sad



Scott, I really wouldn't waste my life's breath arguing with Plowie - he
thinks he knows summat and wants to be my uncle and I won't let him is how
it is....

You are right. especially now that a couple big jobs are about to start
up. I have a suggestion for you. Check out Stevehoffman.tv. This is
your kind of forum. friendly folks that actually have passion for music
and audio and a wealth of information when it comes to the sound
quality of the many LPs and CDs out there. I think I am done after
today with these losers. I walked away from rec.auio.opinion for the
same reason. Haven't looked at for a year. I'll bet that it's the same
people saying the same things. But i 'm not even going to check.



(The reason I'm sorry to see you and Don trading blows is that Don really
*does* know summat and he *can* be my uncle, despite being about 5 years
younger than me!! ;-)


If Don chooses to play nice I will too. Not that it matters. I'm done
with uk.rec.audio after today. Slapping aound meter readers gets boring
and I have a lot more on my plate. The nature of the business you know.
Things are about to get crazy. looks like they will be crazy for a
couple years, maybe four or five years.

On 1 Nov 2006 08:40:42 -0800, wrote:

It was a loaded question. Like do you still beat your wife? The point
is they are independent. You have been trying to assert they are
related.

So at the end of all this, which are they, mutually exclusive or
independent? Just so I know.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Arny Krueger wrote:

AFAIK cosmetology is based on technology. It's about light and how various
substances reflect and transmit it and how they interact with the surfaces
they are on.

Since I am calling it quits on uk.rec.audio i'll take soem time and
answer some of your questions and correct a few of your mistakes.
Cosmetology is something seperate from makeup artistry. Hair stylists
need to go to cosmetology school and get a licence. So do cosmetitions
who do facials and other sorts of skin care services. It's no big deal
just a point of fact.



I wonder how Scott would feel if someone who had as little knowlege of
cosmetology as he has of audio would try to tell him how to do his job.


I would actually pay attention to any ideas that may have merit
regardless of the source. Some of us are always looking for better ways
to o things. Some of the best ideas in the field of makeup artistry
have come from hobbyists. BUT this question is based on the false
premise that I have been telling audio pros how to do their job. When
have I done that? Who here records or masters LPs or CDs
proffessionally?



After all, cosmetology is all just about aesthetics, right?

No. But makeup artistry is just about aesthetic effect.


Anybody with a
good eye for aesthetics should be able to do his job better than Scott does,
right?


Anybody with more artistic talent than me should be able to do a lot of
the things I do better than me. and anyone who thinks so is free to
try. There are two didstict aspects to my line of work. One is
technical and one is artistic. Yes there is some cross over but not
that much. There are people that specialize in the technical aspects of
makeup atistry, some that specialize in the artsistic aspects of it and
some, like myself, that try to be as good as they can be in both
aspects. My technical skills do not make me a better artist. If *you*
have a substantial artistic talent you would be able to walk off the
streets into a lab and do better aesthetic work than the best and most
experienced lab tech that specializes in the technical side of things.
But you know Arny, in the end, my work goes before millions of people
and they are all free to form their own aesthetic opinions about it. I
have no problem with that. I don't expect them to know any of the
technicalities of my jo to form a valid opinion of the results of my
efforts.


Scott

In article . com,
wrote:
What you obviously don't realise is just how poor the ear's 'memory' is
and how easily it is fooled by other factors.

Another meter reader building an argument based on made up facts.

Made up is it? You really know so very little.

Yep you guys do pretty much all sound the same. As usual the point went
right over your head.

Still waiting for you to make any point that is sense.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
u
wrote in message
ups.com...



http://www.performancerecordings.com/albums.html

pr7lp (LP), pr7cd (CD): Boyk plays Mussorgsky 1991
"Pictures at an Exhibition"

"World's only comparison of (a) pure digital, (b) digital-from-analog, and
(c) pure analog recordings, made at the same time from the same microphones;
(a) and (b) on the CD, (c) on the LP. The analog master tape was the first
tape made on MagnesaurusTM. From the album notes: "Interested listeners may
use this double release of LP and CD to investigate some timely questions:
Given an analog master tape, which medium preserves its virtues better, LP
or CD? (Compare the LP with the analog half of the CD.) Does a CD sound
better made from digital or analog master tape? (Compare the two versions on
the CD.) And most important, which preserves the emotional impact of the
music better, purely analog or purely digital recording? (Compare the LP
with the digital half of the CD.)"

The obvious problem none of us low-lifes could possibly aspire to have
access to a SOTA LP playback system that would do this recording justice.

Sorry to hear that. Not even access? oh well.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message


What kills me is these clowns don't seem to realise there
is no small degree of *engineering* in vinyl and vinyl
playback systems...

The opposite is true. I know from personal experience a great deal about the
engineering that is required in vinyl production and playback systems. It's
all a kluge with obvious limitations in terms of noise and distortion.

Do tell us about your experience with actually recording and mastering
LPs.


Scott

In article . com,
wrote:
I'll bet he agrees. I think he is smart enough to know his soldering
skills are independent of his listening skills.

But not mutually exclusive as I asked?

It was a loaded question. Like do you still beat your wife?

No it wasn't. You were suggesting they were and I simply wanted
clarification.

The point is they are independent.

So you're backtracking now?

You have been trying to assert they are related.

Where and when?

--
*A chicken crossing the road is poultry in motion.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I think it's time....

(I've been very patient....)

Oops, here it goes!!

**splash**

Very shortly Mr G will achieve his aim of having this newsgroup to himself
on his newsreader. Think there's a name for that...

--
*I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't care.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
I wonder how Scott would feel if someone who had as little knowlege of
cosmetology as he has of audio would try to tell him how to do his job.
After all, cosmetology is all just about aesthetics, right? Anybody with
a good eye for aesthetics should be able to do his job better than
Scott does, right?

Happens all the time here in low budget TV. Every woman does her own
makeup - so why is it different just because a camera is involved? The
same happens with other skills - after all most now shoot holiday movies.
And when those skills are dispensed with to be replaced by amateurs it
doesn't half show.

It doesn't? I think quite the opposite is true. Audiences are getting
more and more sophisticated. Maybe with the sort of production you are
talking about the expectations just aren't very high.


But only possibly to those with the skills to notice
the difference. As is apparently the case with those who find vinyl more
'realistic' than CD. They just don't know what they're listening to.

Now that is an interesting claim. Arny just went on about how I might
feel about non-pros telling me how to do my job etc. But here you are
claiming that the real top flight pros don't know what they are
listening to. Can anyone else see the irony? Arny went after James Boyk
infering that he has an anti digital agenda. But the fact is he is an
actual pro and has a fantastic ear. I can assure you he knows far
better than you what he is listening to yet he finds the vinyl more
faithful to the original than the CD of his recording made for the
purpose of comparison. He listens to live music on a daily basis. He
teaches other musicians how to listen to sound! He has access to the
the original master and had access to the original mic feed of his
recordings. So, unlike you, he had an actual reference to make his
claims. And it isn't just him. You will find a number of *top industry
pros* that have the same preference for vinyl. So maybe it is you who
doesn't know what he is listening to.



Scott

Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com
Mr.T wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Now where is your proof to the contrary?

I see no proof in the link you have quoted?

It's an email address Einstien not a link. wow.

Fear not, we were able to circumvent your inability to provide a proper
cite, Scott.

Apparently not. The point of offering an email address is so that one
can send an inquiry via email. By failing to do so one only circumvents
themselves from exposure to the relevant information.The "cite" was
proper. The information is not at Boyk's website but with Boyk himself.
OTOH if you read what Mr.T said it is hilarious. Yeah you can click an
email address as though it were a link all day and not find any proof
of anything related to the subject.


Scott