Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

Hi all,

I'm looking to upgrade for the first time in ten years and I'm
interested in other people's experiences with shopping for these brands
which aren't available on the internet.

I understand that many people prefer shopping at a main dealer.
Personally, I'm always happy to accept the risks and buy direct if I
can get a good price. I think the last big ticket item I bought in a
shop was a VCR in 1997. I'm only countenancing visiting a dealer
because there is no alternative with these brands.

I'm looking to spend about £1600 list price, but find the idea of
paying some arbitrary price set by the manufacturer rather upsetting.
I'd rather pay an arbitrary 10% less.

Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this? I've no interest in haing around and
trying things out, I just want to go in, and agree a price and then be
out with my new hi-fi.

Any thoughts, experiences or flames (if you must) appreciated.

Mark

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

"mark" wrote in message
ups.com...

Hi all,

I'm looking to upgrade for the first time in ten years and I'm
interested in other people's experiences with shopping for these brands
which aren't available on the internet.

I understand that many people prefer shopping at a main dealer.
Personally, I'm always happy to accept the risks and buy direct if I
can get a good price. I think the last big ticket item I bought in a
shop was a VCR in 1997. I'm only countenancing visiting a dealer
because there is no alternative with these brands.

I'm looking to spend about £1600 list price, but find the idea of
paying some arbitrary price set by the manufacturer rather upsetting.
I'd rather pay an arbitrary 10% less.

Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this? I've no interest in haing around and
trying things out, I just want to go in, and agree a price and then be
out with my new hi-fi.

Any thoughts, experiences or flames (if you must) appreciated.



Reminds me of a movie title - 'Man On Fire'...!! :-)

Doesn't make sense to me - you want a pile of 'expensive names' and yet you
want to be able to brag 'I got it cheap'....??

One kinda works against the other, doesn't it? Get real - shop around for
'good sounds for a lot less pounds' and save probably up to about a grand on
your proposed spend or just grab the kit you appear to have already chosen
and then at least you'll be able to say 'it weren't cheap, but it's worth
every penny' or somesuch...???

(Or am I missing summat?)

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

"mark" wrote in message
ups.com...


Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this?

There is no harm in asking. The worst that they can say is 'no'. Usually best
to have decided exatly what you want to buy first.

--

Michael Chare

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

Michael Chare wrote:
"mark" wrote in message
ups.com...



Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this?


There is no harm in asking. The worst that they can say is 'no'. Usually best
to have decided exatly what you want to buy first.


But how are you going to do that without listening to them, preferably
at home (esp the speakers)?

--
Nick

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

In article ,
says...
Michael Chare wrote:
"mark" wrote in message
ups.com...



Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this?


There is no harm in asking. The worst that they can say is 'no'. Usually best
to have decided exatly what you want to buy first.


But how are you going to do that without listening to them, preferably
at home (esp the speakers)?


Presumably he's already heard a friend's system or one at an exhibition?

Or maybe he's read the specs :)

T.

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

Nick Gorham wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
"mark" wrote in message
ups.com...



Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers
such as Sevenoaks even open to this?


There is no harm in asking. The worst that they can say is 'no'. Usually
best to have decided exatly what you want to buy first.


But how are you going to do that without listening to them, preferably
at home (esp the speakers)?

About the only way used to be going to shows

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

On 1 Jan 2007 06:08:10 -0800, "mark" wrote:


Hi all,

I'm looking to upgrade for the first time in ten years and I'm
interested in other people's experiences with shopping for these brands
which aren't available on the internet.

I understand that many people prefer shopping at a main dealer.
Personally, I'm always happy to accept the risks and buy direct if I
can get a good price. I think the last big ticket item I bought in a
shop was a VCR in 1997. I'm only countenancing visiting a dealer
because there is no alternative with these brands.

I'm looking to spend about £1600 list price, but find the idea of
paying some arbitrary price set by the manufacturer rather upsetting.
I'd rather pay an arbitrary 10% less.

Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this? I've no interest in haing around and
trying things out, I just want to go in, and agree a price and then be
out with my new hi-fi.

I have obtained some quite reasonable discounts from a local dealer
and also saved a considerable amount of money (from memory, 200 pounds
off a 600 pound item) by buying it from Richer Sounds.

My better half has an Arcam/B&W system, purchased from Richer Sounds
and John Lewis respectively some years ago.

--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

mark wrote:

Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this? I've no interest in haing around and
trying things out, I just want to go in, and agree a price and then be
out with my new hi-fi.

I used to find that asking "How much for cash?" worked quite well.

--
Eiron.

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

Signal wrote:
Eiron wrote:

Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers
such as Sevenoaks even open to this? I've no interest in haing
around and trying things out, I just want to go in, and agree a
price and then be out with my new hi-fi.

I used to find that asking "How much for cash?" worked quite well.

If they can actually see the money, works even better... ;-)

Hardball negotiating tactic#1... slap wad on the counter and say
"That's all I've got will you accept it?"

I've _never_ got a reduction for cash for _anything_ (but especially hi-fi
and I've tried it in Sevenoaks). Maybe I just look hopeless :-)

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

Thanks for all the replies, appreciated.

Doesn't make sense to me - you want a pile of 'expensive names' and yet you
want to be able to brag 'I got it cheap'....?

Firstly being a tightwad is nothing to brag about! But I do agree with
you to an extent. Its not the cost per se I object to, though it is a
lot of money for me. Its the "retail" price that bothers me. I don't
really want "dealer service" and I don't want to pay for it.

Of course £150 off £1500 isn't much compared to the savings of just
buying a £600 cheaper system. But it might well bug me for the next 10
years. Of course £150 over 10 years is even more inconsequential, but
I'd still rather keep it in my pocket.

Regarding auditioning...this is also a dilemma and does largely
undermine my thinking. I do know someone with the speakers I want, but
yes, I am largely relying on other people's opinions and reviews
regarding the Arcam stuff. (Ok, I admit I like the appearance of it too
and I am suckered in by their clever branding, but that's a thread in
itself.)

Maybe I should just grow up, go and have the salesman set up an
audition of some different brands and pay the full whack...

Mark

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

mark wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, appreciated.


Doesn't make sense to me - you want a pile of 'expensive names' and yet you
want to be able to brag 'I got it cheap'....?


Firstly being a tightwad is nothing to brag about! But I do agree with
you to an extent. Its not the cost per se I object to, though it is a
lot of money for me. Its the "retail" price that bothers me. I don't
really want "dealer service" and I don't want to pay for it.

Of course £150 off £1500 isn't much compared to the savings of just
buying a £600 cheaper system. But it might well bug me for the next 10
years. Of course £150 over 10 years is even more inconsequential, but
I'd still rather keep it in my pocket.

Regarding auditioning...this is also a dilemma and does largely
undermine my thinking. I do know someone with the speakers I want, but
yes, I am largely relying on other people's opinions and reviews
regarding the Arcam stuff. (Ok, I admit I like the appearance of it too
and I am suckered in by their clever branding, but that's a thread in
itself.)

Maybe I should just grow up, go and have the salesman set up an
audition of some different brands and pay the full whack...

Mark


Go to a dealer, get a demo, ask to take the kit home on a trial.
Normally this will involve swiping a credit card before you get out of
the shop with this kit.

If you decide you don't like it, bring it back, and its cost you nothing
but time, and has saved you from spending money on something you don't like.

If you do like it. Go back and make the dealer an offer. If he doesn't
like your offer, give the kit back, and you are no worst off, but at
least you have some kit you know you like. Then you can try and get the
same kit elsewhere for a discount. But given the kit has already left
his shop, he may be more inclined to offer a discount on it.

Of course, this could all fall down if they send you home with demo kit,
and not the new stuff you wanted to get the discount on.

--
Nick

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

"mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for all the replies, appreciated.

Doesn't make sense to me - you want a pile of 'expensive names' and yet
you
want to be able to brag 'I got it cheap'....?

Firstly being a tightwad is nothing to brag about! But I do agree with
you to an extent. Its not the cost per se I object to, though it is a
lot of money for me. Its the "retail" price that bothers me. I don't
really want "dealer service" and I don't want to pay for it.

Of course £150 off £1500 isn't much compared to the savings of just
buying a £600 cheaper system. But it might well bug me for the next 10
years. Of course £150 over 10 years is even more inconsequential, but
I'd still rather keep it in my pocket.

Regarding auditioning...this is also a dilemma and does largely
undermine my thinking. I do know someone with the speakers I want, but
yes, I am largely relying on other people's opinions and reviews
regarding the Arcam stuff. (Ok, I admit I like the appearance of it too
and I am suckered in by their clever branding, but that's a thread in
itself.)

Maybe I should just grow up, go and have the salesman set up an
audition of some different brands and pay the full whack...




I think I understand your dilemma - you have more or less decided on a stack
of gear and you want to say to the dealer 'I know what I want, just wheel
out the boxes, cut me a 'speedy spender' deal and I'll be gone in 60
seconds!' or somesuch? No?

If so, just say it!! Be *brave*!! :-)

Better by phone (non-confrontational) and do it any time now (post Christmas
drop-off) or leave it 'til high summer when the dealers are quiet. Phone on
a Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon when they have probably had an empty shop
and you'll be home pulling all that squeaky polystyrene off by teatime!!
You'll be happy as a dog with two dicks for about 6 months - until they
bring out the *new model* with the next number up and which purports to
'address all the issues' in the one you have just bought! ;-)

(Me? Assuming you're talking SS/digital - Amp, CD and DAB say, I'd pull the
thousand pounds off the front of that proposed spend for a start.....!! ;-)

Or......

See this stack?

This stack he

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/stack.JPG

It'll cost you about 210 (total) from Argos and you'll get 3 identical
remotes which will operate everything. Grab one and get a Dymo tape machine
to make some fancy labels to stick on each piece (I leave it up to you to
choose a sutable name) and then grab a pair of Living Voice Auditoriums

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~va...ivingVoice.htm

http://www.livingvoice.co.uk/auditorium.htm


and hook it all up.

Give it a week to settle in and then invite your mates round (the ones with
the ****ty mid-fi 'names') and see what they say....

(Then you can save up for your *killer stack* at your leisure - I suspect
you will be in no rush and the speakers will do you for life!! ;-)

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

I think I understand your dilemma - you have more or less decided on a stack
of gear and you want to say to the dealer 'I know what I want, just wheel
out the boxes, cut me a 'speedy spender' deal and I'll be gone in 60
seconds!' or somesuch? No?

Ok...I admit it, the above had crossed my mind.

This stack he

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/stack.JPG

It'll cost you about 210 (total) from Argos and you'll get 3 identical
remotes which will operate everything. Grab one and get a Dymo tape machine
to make some fancy labels to stick on each piece (I leave it up to you to
choose a sutable name) and then grab a pair of Living Voice Auditoriums

I'm slightly disturbed by your in depth knowledge of this "system",
Keith! ;-) Have you auditioned one yourself? Do you, dare I say it, own
one? Three remotes...I'm sorely tempted.

The Living Voices are a bit over my speaker budget but they do look
sure to impress my mates, and my 12 year old Mordaunts are getting a
bit long in the tooth. Do you think they can handle the output from the
Argos rig though? ;-) I'd hate to think they weren't doing it
justice...

Actually, more seriously, I'm looking at an Arcam CD73, an Arcam A70
amp...and possibly some B&W 603 S3s. Can't stretch to anything fancy
like a tuner.

With any luck I might get bored with the idea soon and be able to go on
holiday instead...

Mark

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

Signal wrote:
"jasee" wrote:

Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers
such as Sevenoaks even open to this? I've no interest in haing
around and trying things out, I just want to go in, and agree a
price and then be out with my new hi-fi.

I used to find that asking "How much for cash?" worked quite well.

If they can actually see the money, works even better... ;-)

Hardball negotiating tactic#1... slap wad on the counter and say
"That's all I've got will you accept it?"

I've _never_ got a reduction for cash for _anything_ (but especially
hi-fi and I've tried it in Sevenoaks). Maybe I just look hopeless :-)

Retailers pay a percentage of every credit card transaction to the
bank, think about it.... ;-)

Yes, however the fact that they do has never made the slightest difference
in my case: when I finally pay by credit card because they don't offer a
discount of cash they don't seem at all perturbed and no-one begs me to
change my mind and pay in cash! It just never seems to be a good negociating
point.

It's probably easier for them as individuals than to actually count the cash
and make sure I haven't just made it on my photocopier.

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

"mark" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think I understand your dilemma - you have more or less decided on a
stack
of gear and you want to say to the dealer 'I know what I want, just wheel
out the boxes, cut me a 'speedy spender' deal and I'll be gone in 60
seconds!' or somesuch? No?

Ok...I admit it, the above had crossed my mind.

This stack he

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/stack.JPG

It'll cost you about 210 (total) from Argos and you'll get 3 identical
remotes which will operate everything. Grab one and get a Dymo tape
machine
to make some fancy labels to stick on each piece (I leave it up to you to
choose a sutable name) and then grab a pair of Living Voice Auditoriums

I'm slightly disturbed by your in depth knowledge of this "system",
Keith! ;-) Have you auditioned one yourself? Do you, dare I say it, own
one?


Damn, am I that transparent?


Three remotes...I'm sorely tempted.


I know - I still can't get used to the idea myself!! :-)




The Living Voices are a bit over my speaker budget but they do look
sure to impress my mates, and my 12 year old Mordaunts are getting a
bit long in the tooth. Do you think they can handle the output from the
Argos rig though? ;-) I'd hate to think they weren't doing it
justice...


:-)

See below....



Actually, more seriously, I'm looking at an Arcam CD73, an Arcam A70
amp...and possibly some B&W 603 S3s. Can't stretch to anything fancy
like a tuner.


Hmm....

Just as I thought - you are spending all the money on the electronics.

The reason I got the Argos stuff was to find out how good it was at the
price - bearing in mind you can get your money back if not satisfied, within
a couple of weeks. I actually only bought the amp to start with (60 quid,
IIRC) but was so impressed at the VFM aspect (and the reet *snacky* buttons)
I followed up with the matching CD and DAB just for fun!

Hifi electronics are a done deal these days, you really can get a perfectly
good DVD player for 20 quid!! (Silvercrest from Lidl's a while back...)
Quite what some suppliers are providing for kit costing 10 times the price
(and looking only a wee bit better) I really couldn't guess! The CD player
is the least impressive of the 3 bits of kit but it was utterly
*indistinguishable* from a ********y Marantz 'KI Signature' ubertweaked CDP
I already had, when the Marantz' internal attenuation was used to
level-match the output. Not one person (in about half a dozen that heard
them both here) could tell them apart and I was able to switch between them
seamlessly, once I had 'time aligned' them. (Not hard to do...) The DAB is
as good as DAB gets...

Anyway, on my speakers (mostly up there in the high 90s/100 mark) they
positively *sparkle* - although I'm only using the DAB atm!! The only Arcam
amp and CD setup I've had here to audition was about a year ago and were the
'new models' then (CD72 and A65?) - they belonged to Ray Mr Bitsy and were
perfectly OK but they weren't 10 times better than the Argos stuff!!



With any luck I might get bored with the idea soon and be able to go on
holiday instead...


I'm on holiday now (note the hour) but, as I'm retired, it's a bit like
doing 'overtime' to me!! ;-)

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

On Tue, 2 Jan 2007 03:19:32 -0000, "jasee"
wrote:

Yes, however the fact that they do has never made the slightest difference
in my case: when I finally pay by credit card because they don't offer a
discount of cash they don't seem at all perturbed and no-one begs me to
change my mind and pay in cash! It just never seems to be a good negociating
point.

It's probably easier for them as individuals than to actually count the cash
and make sure I haven't just made it on my photocopier.


It depends whether you're dealing with a salesman on commission or a
store owner.

Unfortunately, to get anywhere near a good price, you generally have
to be dealing with a chain store with big buying power. This means
salesmen.

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

"Signal" wrote in message
...
"Michael Chare" wrote:

Has anyone experience of negotiating recently? Are the big dealers such
as Sevenoaks even open to this?

There is no harm in asking. The worst that they can say is 'no'.

Well... they could say "No.. and don't come back here again!" :-)

Indeed they could, but that way the lose any business now and also in the
future. As their goal is to sell you the product at the full price they are
more likely to politely decline the offer.


--

Michael Chare

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

"Signal" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote:

Actually, more seriously, I'm looking at an Arcam CD73, an Arcam A70
amp...and possibly some B&W 603 S3s. Can't stretch to anything fancy
like a tuner.



I didn't write that - it was the OP....



I got all my stuff used. JM Lab Electra 905 for £500, Primare A10 for
£150, Marantz CDP for another £100.
Cheap at retail £2k (SQ vs price) ... a gift at £750 :)

http://translate.google.com/translat...3Doff%26sa%3DG

I always suggest buying used if you have the smarts.. there's plenty
of good-as-new gear available at 25%-50% retail if you look around.



Once I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly, but not everyone wants
secondhand and there's an awful lot of dreck out there atm, especially at
the lower end of the market. The grubby black 80s/90s gear with the busted
remotes is turning up in the shops (from what little I see of it) and the
good stuff goes on eBay!

I think it's worth mentioning that the OP appeared to want a smart/matching
stack (a lot of people do) - I merely pointed him to an impossibly cheap
stack of quite smart and really quite clever brand new kit for less than
secondhand prices and dropped the hint he should spend the bulk of his
budget on a decent pair of speakers. Mid-fi electronic gadgets change year
on year (for some obscure reason), but a good pair of speakers is
*eternal*.....




Hifi electronics are a done deal these days, you really can get a
perfectly
good DVD player for 20 quid!! (Silvercrest from Lidl's a while back...)
Quite what some suppliers are providing for kit costing 10 times the price
(and looking only a wee bit better) I really couldn't guess!

Quality of components, design, attention to firmware, materials and
parts used, quality control..? Perhaps put together by people being
paid a fair wage?


That one doesn't wash with me - there's hardly a 'name' now that don't get
its stuff built in China (where the purported 'sweatshops' are) and some
'respectable names' have been doing it for years. As far as the 'slave
labour' bit goes - I'm sure they are not being forced to work at gunpoint
and I suspect they would rather have the option to work than not. Normal (if
not ferocious) economic development will sort things out eventually, in any
case...???



Three mates bought the same "bargain" does-it-all ALDI DVD player over
the christmas period... all three went back. One was rejected because
the internal subtitling was yellow one pixel wide lettering with no
background border, so nigh on impossible to read over light
backgrounds. Another rejected because the USB socket doesn't work
(design fault - none of them work, something is bolloxed) and the
third because it stopped recognizing discs. One of the buyers is
techie, said there were problems with anamorphic playback too...



Sure, not all cheap stuff is good. It's a case of Caveat Emptor, as always -
there are plenty of forums giving useful FB on the cheap stuff and I gather
they are not averse to calling a product a POS if it's justified. Unlike the
'magazines' of course.....



I doubt any budget DVD player is sonically on a par with a decent
current mid range player. Trevor Wilson can probably give a technical
explanation for this.



Oh, I'm sure he could, but if I can't personally distinguish between two
pieces of kit then it's academic AFAIAC and if a twenty quid player only
lasts so long, then that's OK too - the last thing you want these days is a
bit of kit lasting forever it seems!!



The CD player
is the least impressive of the 3 bits of kit but it was utterly
*indistinguishable* from a ********y Marantz 'KI Signature' ubertweaked
CDP
I already had, when the Marantz' internal attenuation was used to
level-match the output. Not one person (in about half a dozen that heard
them both here) could tell them apart and I was able to switch between
them
seamlessly, once I had 'time aligned' them. (Not hard to do...)

IIRC Marantz' internal attenuation is _not_ clean. The SQ certainly
seems to degrade on my Marantz CDP even knocking the internal level
down a couple of notches (compensating volume with the amp of course).


Whatever

The important thing to take into account is that I already *owned* both
pieces of kit - nothing in it for me if one was (or wasn't) worse than the
other. It's no hardship to get rid of spare kit these days - asitappens, I
flogged the Marantz and it virtually paid for the Argos stuff!! :-)

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

"Signal" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote:



I think it's worth mentioning that the OP appeared to want a
smart/matching
stack (a lot of people do) - I merely pointed him to an impossibly cheap
stack of quite smart and really quite clever brand new kit for less than
secondhand prices

Sure, if the guy wants some plasticy boxes that you can put on top of
one another he should proceed immediately to Argos...


Hmm....

This is where people go wrong - they make sweeping statements about that
which they have not personally experienced. FYI, the Argos kit is not
'plasticky' it's actually got a tin front painted in a rather pleasant matt
'frosty silver-grey' and is surprisingly substantial. The Denon PMA-655R amp
I bought shortly after and the Marantz CDP both have/had plastic fronts. The
AS amp weighs 9 kg, the considerably more expensive Denon weighs 7 kg.....

I buy stuff to *find out* about it....

Full specs here, if you are interested:

http://www.acousticsolutions.net/cat...?Cat=Separates

Remember the amp/CDP/ and tuner were about 60, 70 and 80 (or 90?) quid
respectively and then note the functionality (digital everything on the
amp), inputs and outputs, headphone sockets with volume control &c....

Again, here is the stack:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/stack.JPG




and dropped the hint he should spend the bulk of his
budget on a decent pair of speakers. Mid-fi electronic gadgets change year
on year (for some obscure reason), but a good pair of speakers is
*eternal*.....

I think you are exaggerating a tinsy winsy bit when you say eternal..
but I agree speakers is where the bulk of the money should go


Not eternal? Ask anybody with a pair (or even one) of the original Quad
panels. Ask anybody with original Tannoys...

But at least we agree on something - ****e speakers will knacker any setup,
no matter how much has been spent!




That one doesn't wash with me - there's hardly a 'name' now that don't get
its stuff built in China (where the purported 'sweatshops' are) and some
'respectable names' have been doing it for years.

My speakers were made in France, my amp in Sweden, everything else is
Japanese or British Bulldog. Oh.. the XBOX is Chinky.. ack...


I couldn't even begin to list the 'country of origin' of all the stuff I
have here, but take it there's summat from most countries that produce hifi
gear!!



I doubt any budget DVD player is sonically on a par with a decent
current mid range player. Trevor Wilson can probably give a technical
explanation for this.



Oh, I'm sure he could, but if I can't personally distinguish between two
pieces of kit then it's academic AFAIAC

Fine, but some hear differences and proffer advice accordingly.. :)



Sure, but note I said about half a dozen people failed to split the players
when I had them matched up - it was a button press on the remote to switch
between them. (If it wuz only me that couldn't tell them apart it wouldn't
mean a thing - I ain't CD's biggest fan here...!! ;-)



and if a twenty quid player only
lasts so long, then that's OK too - the last thing you want these days is
a
bit of kit lasting forever it seems!!

May I offer a contrary viewpoint? I want my equipment to last as long
as possible!!!


Fine.


The important thing to take into account is that I already *owned* both
pieces of kit - nothing in it for me if one was (or wasn't) worse than the
other. It's no hardship to get rid of spare kit these days - asitappens, I
flogged the Marantz and it virtually paid for the Argos stuff!! :-)

I'm not surprised.. the Marantz is probably worth more! :-)


Only to someone who prized Audio BS over Harsh Reality....

Just for you, a pic of the stack with the Marantz on top:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...ithmarantz.JPG

;-)

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

Nick Gorham wrote:

Go to a dealer, get a demo, ask to take the kit home on a trial.
Normally this will involve swiping a credit card before you get out of
the shop with this kit.

If you decide you don't like it, bring it back, and its cost you nothing
but time, and has saved you from spending money on something you don't like.

If you do like it. Go back and make the dealer an offer. If he doesn't
like your offer, give the kit back, and you are no worst off, but at
least you have some kit you know you like. Then you can try and get the
same kit elsewhere for a discount. But given the kit has already left
his shop, he may be more inclined to offer a discount on it.

Of course, this could all fall down if they send you home with demo kit,
and not the new stuff you wanted to get the discount on.

--
Nick

this attitude is exactly why HIFI and HIFI dealers are dying. Don't
blame me when there are no shops left to dem at.

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

"Tim" wrote in message
oups.com...

Nick Gorham wrote:

Go to a dealer, get a demo, ask to take the kit home on a trial.
Normally this will involve swiping a credit card before you get out of
the shop with this kit.

If you decide you don't like it, bring it back, and its cost you nothing
but time, and has saved you from spending money on something you don't
like.

If you do like it. Go back and make the dealer an offer. If he doesn't
like your offer, give the kit back, and you are no worst off, but at
least you have some kit you know you like. Then you can try and get the
same kit elsewhere for a discount. But given the kit has already left
his shop, he may be more inclined to offer a discount on it.

Of course, this could all fall down if they send you home with demo kit,
and not the new stuff you wanted to get the discount on.

--
Nick

this attitude is exactly why HIFI and HIFI dealers are dying. Don't
blame me when there are no shops left to dem at.



Why, what have you been up to? :-)

Anyway, who sez Hifi is dying? I think you will find it's only changing -
relatively good sound (in a digital/SS way) is no longer the province of
expensive specialists, it can be had from just about anywhere at just about
any price these days. Any dealer that can't match his methods to a changing
market will suffer, no matter what commodity he's handling.

The OP was effectively asking about getting a discount for a 'quick grab' in
lieu of the full dealer 'service' (demos and other meaningless ****ing
about) - IOW, he wanted the dealer to perform somewhat like a 'boxshifter'
in this instance. How can it hurt to ask? The dealer in question can only
tell him to **** off, can he not?

(Of course, the old 'We are not allowed to discout B&W goods' horse****
would/will be trotted out....)

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

Tim wrote:
Nick Gorham wrote:


Go to a dealer, get a demo, ask to take the kit home on a trial.

Normally this will involve swiping a credit card before you get out of
the shop with this kit.

If you decide you don't like it, bring it back, and its cost you nothing
but time, and has saved you from spending money on something you don't like.

If you do like it. Go back and make the dealer an offer. If he doesn't
like your offer, give the kit back, and you are no worst off, but at
least you have some kit you know you like. Then you can try and get the
same kit elsewhere for a discount. But given the kit has already left
his shop, he may be more inclined to offer a discount on it.

Of course, this could all fall down if they send you home with demo kit,
and not the new stuff you wanted to get the discount on.

--
Nick


this attitude is exactly why HIFI and HIFI dealers are dying. Don't
blame me when there are no shops left to dem at.


1. Wouldn't worry me if there were no HiFi shops at all. I would be more
than happy personally if HiFi went back to being a DIY and small scale
interest it was before the 70's

2. No its not, I didn't say, get a dem, borrow the kit, take it back and
buy online. You may think I said that, but re-read it. What I said gave
the shop every chance to get a sale. if the shop did its job, the buyer
should want to give them money, and the idea of a discount will not seem
so important.

3. The reason that HiFi is dying is far more complex than that, most
people now don't seem to care what they listen too, and what it sounds
like.

--
Nick

Negotiating on price - Arcam/B&W
 

Tim wrote:

this attitude is exactly why HIFI and HIFI dealers are dying. Don't
blame me when there are no shops left to dem at.

I understand the above point but it doesn't really apply to my rather
odd attitude. I didn't buy my last system in a shop 10 years ago, and
they seem to be doing ok without my rather, infrequent, frugal
business. Given the choice between being forced to paying list price or
not buying anything I might even see sense and keep what I've got.

Its not the price per se that bothers me, but the absence of
competition.

Anyway...despite the above I actually went in to a shop today. The sole
hi-fi shop in Sevenoaks, Kent. I was on my way home from work and
glancing at my reflection in the window as I entered I though it might
just have been conceivable to an uninformed observer that I might be in
the market to buy something.

None of the grown up salemen could be arsed to come down to the sales
floor and I was left with the work experience kid to answer my
questions. He had no idea how powerful the Arcam amp was but did tell
me it has some sort of special damping material used in a spaceship to
stop electrical interference moving about and messing with my music. I
asked why it was £150 cheaper than the discontinued model it replaced
but he said this one was much better. This may be true but I'm not
inclined to take his word for it.

The B&W speakers I was interested in weren't in stock but he did point
me to some smaller ones by the same manufacturer. He couldn't actually
be arsed to point them out so had to call out "left a bit" etc. which
made me feel a bit of a tool. Especially since they were right next to
another salesman's desk.

He then clumsily attempted to trade me up to some appropriately named
Spendor speakers about £500 over my budget. Also despite their website
advertising them, apparently they don't sell the Acoustic Energy
speakers I was considering.

The final nail in the coffin (and I had to try hard not to laugh) was
when he went the other way and showed me some sort of tiny bookshelf
speakers. I explained that my room is quite large, around 100m3 (its a
Victorian building with high ceilings) and he said, that's ok, you'd be
amazed how much sound they can throw out. I took his card and near ran
outside.

Rant over anyway. I'm sure there are far better shops independent shops
elsewhere, I might even try to find one. But after that experience any
qualms about negoitating when I've enjoyed "dealer service", at that
chain anyway, have evaporated.

What a miserable young git I am.

Mark