KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Andre Jute wrote:

What happenened was that John Byrns kindly explained *my* thoughts on
the matter

Because you're incapable of doing it yourself I note.

Graham


You don't have to take Andre's word (or anyone else's word)
for it Graham - try it for yourself:-)

Take off your engineer's hat, put on your musician's hat,
and listen to the music.

People who have actual hands-on experience with
building SET amps will confirm that there is a difference,
but you need to prove it for yourself, as I am doing.

It's a good test for your levels of aural perception:-)

Regards to all
Iain

KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

More to the point, most audiophiles long ago observed that tubed amps
aren't worth the trouble or expense.

Arny. I don't know about the situation in the US but here in
Scandinavia your statement could not be more wrong:-(

A recent survey here has shown that the top of the
high-end market for music systems (not home theatre)
is totally dominated by tube amplifiers. My local dealer,
who also supplies professional equipment will offer an
SS Crown or Krell at a very attractively discounted
price. For a CJ or any other good tube amp the
customer must pay full retail and wait up to three
months. Most are happy to do so.

To endorse the confidence in their products, many
bespoke amp builders now offer a 5 year warranty
on tube amps.

There is more interest in tube audio now than
for many years. People are keen, I am told,
to trade in their SS equipment for something
which better satisfies their musical taste
(their words to the dealer) A tube amp is
invariably their choice. No-one I have heard
of in the past ten years has gone in the other
direction.

Regards to all
Iain

PS. Arny, your presence on RAT, as one who holds tube
audio in low regard, is something of an enigma.

KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

Iain Churches wrote:

People who have actual hands-on experience with
building SET amps will confirm that there is a difference,
but you need to prove it for yourself, as I am doing.

Iain:

What you write is likely true. However in this case you are backing a
three-legged mule in a horserace by using Mr. McCoy in the same general
post when you mention "People who have actual hands-on experience..."
and so on. The two are mutually exclusive. Though you did leave the
door open with the vagueness of the term 'people'.

I have always heard the difference between tube and SS, even tube and
massive, well-built SS amps. There are differences... more than a few.
I have even heard a reputedly very well made Set/Single-Driver horn
system. That it lacked for dynamic sources and had no perceptable bass
did not detract from the fact that it produced quite beautiful music
from limited source material. I post here because I have an abiding
interest in tube stuff, I have just rebuilt a vintage amp and am
gradually working through a vintage receiver. Eventually my home-brew
will get off the breadboard and onto a chassis... eventually.

But at this moment, Mr. McCoy has nothing but a loose grab-bag of
miscellaneous parts, no actual built anything and a schematic that even
when "final" is still fraught with error and questionable choices. It
is hardly a shining example of the species, nor is Mr. McCoy hardly a
shining example of a careful, thoughtful home-brewer both by manner and
execution.

We had a recent example of a very nice home-brew that not only was
gorgeous, but surely worked, and was exquisitely well made using
affordable and accessible means and methods. The creator made his
choices because he like them, and not as anything but what he wanted.
And certainly not as "ultra" anything.

Note the difference in behavior, note the difference in performance,
note the difference in result.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

"Iain Churches" wrote


You don't have to take Andre's word (or anyone else's word)
for it Graham - try it for yourself:-)

Take off your engineer's hat, put on your musician's hat,
and listen to the music.

People who have actual hands-on experience with
building SET amps will confirm that there is a difference,
but you need to prove it for yourself, as I am doing.



I haven't been following this thread closely but if you mean there is a
difference between SETs and other valve amps then I can add that, over the
Christmas period, I revisited my various amps (valve SET/PP and SS) - by way
of 'realignment and reaffirmation' and confirm that the SETs have it by a
mile....

KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

More to the point, most audiophiles long ago observed
that tubed amps aren't worth the trouble or expense.

Arny. I don't know about the situation in the US but here
in Scandinavia your statement could not be more wrong:-(

A recent survey here has shown that the top of the
high-end market for music systems (not home theatre)
is totally dominated by tube amplifiers.


When you have some audited stats from an independent source, be sure to post
them Iain. Until then, it looks like you're talking out of the back of your
neck, as usual. ;-(

KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

When you have some audited stats from an independent source, be sure to post
them Iain. Until then, it looks like you're talking out of the back of your
neck, as usual. ;-(

Arny:

Relax. Iain rarely makes stuff up, and in this case, he may be dead-on
target. Just parse the claim:

Top end of the market. Dominated by tubes.

With absolute respect to those very few in the top end of any market
who are there because they actually demand the best and are willing to
pay for it, most anyone paying nose-bleed prices for stereo equipment
are typically not overly gifted with either taste or common sense. They
purchase what is in fashion at the moment, mostly because they can.

It is certainly the case that tube equipment happens to be "in fashion"
at this moment. My friend at the local High end ship (The Stereo
Trading Outlet in Jenkintown, PA) has started to move a great deal of
tube stuff lately and the trend is increasing.

It would not surprise me one bit if Iain's claim is true. How long it
remains true is a different question, as trends evolve.


Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

On 15 Jan 2007 12:54:58 -0800, "Peter Wieck" wrote:


Arny Krueger wrote:

When you have some audited stats from an independent source, be sure to post
them Iain. Until then, it looks like you're talking out of the back of your
neck, as usual. ;-(

Arny:

Relax. Iain rarely makes stuff up, and in this case, he may be dead-on
target. Just parse the claim:

Top end of the market. Dominated by tubes.

With absolute respect to those very few in the top end of any market
who are there because they actually demand the best and are willing to
pay for it, most anyone paying nose-bleed prices for stereo equipment
are typically not overly gifted with either taste or common sense. They
purchase what is in fashion at the moment, mostly because they can.

It is certainly the case that tube equipment happens to be "in fashion"
at this moment. My friend at the local High end ship (The Stereo
Trading Outlet in Jenkintown, PA) has started to move a great deal of
tube stuff lately and the trend is increasing.

It would not surprise me one bit if Iain's claim is true. How long it
remains true is a different question, as trends evolve.


Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

It is no more than a begged question. If you choose to define the top
end of the market as that using tubes, then the top end will be
dominated by tubes. On the other had if, like anyone sensible, you
define the top end of the market as that with the most accurate
systems, there won't be a tube in sight. So just a standard logical
fallacy (or trick if you are being critical) in operation.

d
--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

Don Pearce wrote:

It is no more than a begged question. If you choose to define the top
end of the market as that using tubes, then the top end will be
dominated by tubes. On the other had if, like anyone sensible, you
define the top end of the market as that with the most accurate
systems, there won't be a tube in sight. So just a standard logical
fallacy (or trick if you are being critical) in operation.

I was defining "Top End" solely based on cost. I expect that Iain was
as well. Those who choose what they want based on knowledge and the
expectation of certain and sure results will choose based on those
requirements, not on cost.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

On 15 Jan 2007 13:38:41 -0800, "Peter Wieck" wrote:


Don Pearce wrote:

It is no more than a begged question. If you choose to define the top
end of the market as that using tubes, then the top end will be
dominated by tubes. On the other had if, like anyone sensible, you
define the top end of the market as that with the most accurate
systems, there won't be a tube in sight. So just a standard logical
fallacy (or trick if you are being critical) in operation.

I was defining "Top End" solely based on cost. I expect that Iain was
as well. Those who choose what they want based on knowledge and the
expectation of certain and sure results will choose based on those
requirements, not on cost.

Defining on cost has exactly the result I was describing. There is
nothing in a solid state high end amp that would force cost up to the
levels demanded by anything with tubes and a sensible amount of power
- the sheer physical mass simply isn't there. So defining by cost is
essentially the same as defining by tube content.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

KISS Amp 300B Ultrafi finalized; circuit updated
 

in article , Don Pearce at
wrote on 1/15/07 4:08 PM:

On 15 Jan 2007 12:54:58 -0800, "Peter Wieck" wrote:


Arny Krueger wrote:

When you have some audited stats from an independent source, be sure to post
them Iain. Until then, it looks like you're talking out of the back of your
neck, as usual. ;-(

Arny:

Relax. Iain rarely makes stuff up, and in this case, he may be dead-on
target. Just parse the claim:

Top end of the market. Dominated by tubes.

With absolute respect to those very few in the top end of any market
who are there because they actually demand the best and are willing to
pay for it, most anyone paying nose-bleed prices for stereo equipment
are typically not overly gifted with either taste or common sense. They
purchase what is in fashion at the moment, mostly because they can.

It is certainly the case that tube equipment happens to be "in fashion"
at this moment. My friend at the local High end ship (The Stereo
Trading Outlet in Jenkintown, PA) has started to move a great deal of
tube stuff lately and the trend is increasing.

It would not surprise me one bit if Iain's claim is true. How long it
remains true is a different question, as trends evolve.


Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

It is no more than a begged question. If you choose to define the top
end of the market as that using tubes, then the top end will be
dominated by tubes. On the other had if, like anyone sensible, you
define the top end of the market as that with the most accurate
systems, there won't be a tube in sight. So just a standard logical
fallacy (or trick if you are being critical) in operation.

d


There are a lot of SS systems that are "accurate" from a THD & IM
perspective but are not sonically pleasing. If the elusive, subjective
concept of "sonically pleasing" applies to "upper end", then there would
certainly be a place for tube gear.

Jon