BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.

This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
R3 :o).

So what could be causing the above problem?

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

"alexander.keys1" wrote in message
ups.com...
Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.

This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
R3 :o).

So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

--

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)

To email me remove the letter vee.

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

"Brian Gregory [UK]" writes:
"alexander.keys1" wrote...
Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.

This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
R3 :o).

So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there. it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up. at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

In article , Robin Fairbairns
writes
"Brian Gregory [UK]" writes:
"alexander.keys1" wrote...
Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.

This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
R3 :o).

So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there. it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up. at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).

Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
isn't that bad either...


http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/madingley.asp
--
Tony Sayer

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

tony sayer wrote:
this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).

Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
isn't that bad either...

Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.

Why all three services are different, I don't know.

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

In article , Mark Carver
writes
tony sayer wrote:
this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).

Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
isn't that bad either...

Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.

Why all three services are different, I don't know.


Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned 4 kW
then?....
--
Tony Sayer

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mark Carver
writes
tony sayer wrote:
this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).

Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
isn't that bad either...

Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.

Why all three services are different, I don't know.


Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned
4 kW then?....


Possibly because: transmitter people think in terms of transmitter power
while the figures quoted above are 'erp'.

--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
"Brian Gregory [UK]" writes:

"alexander.keys1" wrote...
Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.

This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
R3 :o).

So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there. it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up. at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more. They now usually
broadcast in "joint stereo" which gives a poor stereo image but lower
distortion. For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
to stay with FM.

Robert
Cambridge

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

"Robert" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
"Brian Gregory [UK]" writes:

"alexander.keys1" wrote...
Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.

This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
R3 :o).

So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there. it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up. at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more. They now usually
broadcast in "joint stereo" which gives a poor stereo image but lower
distortion. For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
to stay with FM.

Robert
Cambridge


Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and difference are
coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are transmitted seperately and in
both cases reconsituted in the receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel
carries less information than the L+R channel. I would therefore have
thought that in terms of stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very
similar.

S.

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

Serge Auckland wrote:
"Robert" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
"Brian Gregory [UK]" writes:

"alexander.keys1" wrote...
Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.

This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
including R3 :o).

So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
the (modest) digital there. it played for a few minutes, and then
started breaking up. at the point where there was more silence
than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
when i can receive it at all).
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more. They now usually
broadcast in "joint stereo" which gives a poor stereo image but
lower distortion. For full stereo and good sound quality you
really need to stay with FM.

Robert
Cambridge


Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.


You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity
stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to
is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2,
which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is
lossless.

Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the
ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the
signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello
pan-potted mono.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the
1980s.



--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php

BBC R3 gone from DAB multiplex
 

"DAB sounds worse than FM" dab.is@dead wrote in message
...
Serge Auckland wrote:
"Robert" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
"Brian Gregory [UK]" writes:

"alexander.keys1" wrote...
Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.

This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
including R3 :o).

So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
the (modest) digital there. it played for a few minutes, and then
started breaking up. at the point where there was more silence
than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
when i can receive it at all).
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more. They now usually
broadcast in "joint stereo" which gives a poor stereo image but
lower distortion. For full stereo and good sound quality you
really need to stay with FM.

Robert
Cambridge


Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.


You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity
stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to
is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2,
which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is
lossless.

Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the
ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the
signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello
pan-potted mono.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the
1980s.



--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/fr..._receivers.php
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php

Thanks for that. I was unaware that joint stereo on MP2 was different to MP3
etc.

S.