I have had to laugh...
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

What is important is that they are (and, I suspect, always have
been)
*out of phase* with each other!! And no, before you ask, there's no
way
I got the I/P signal wire twisted up!!

Larf? Do ewe not hafta...??

Since valves are basically unbalanced devices, the problem must be in
the
output transformer?



I had no suspicion when I had them open (I had never heard them) or I
would have had a good look round - the amps are handed, but I suspect
summat's *not*...??

Just compare the primary and secondary connections from the B+ and
300b anode, and the speaker connections.


I returned the amps earlier this evening - it's the new owners problem
(for now)! Anyway, maybe he'll disagree with me about the phase (doubt
it) - if he does I'll mention it here.

(You know whose amps they are....)

I have had to laugh...
 

Keith G wrote:
"Serge Auckland" wrote

One of the many benefits of overall negative feedback in a valve amp
is that it ensures you get the output transformer phased right. With
no overall NF on these amps, they will work equally well either way
round. There's no excuse for sloppy manufacture, but at least with NF,
it would never have left the factory like that. (assuming of course
that they were tested at all)


OK Serge, where is this going to have happened then?

I'm certain I haven't buggered up the coax signal wires but I'm equally
certain they amps are out of phase, is it likely to be the transformers?
Doesn't help the amps are handed but the speaker connectors are colour
coded red/black/red, so it's not a question of how they are hooked up!





This isn't something that has changed, they must have been like that
from new. There's no mechanism that will change the phase. Nick's
suggestion is correct, compare the connections in and out of the output
transformer, and see if they are different. It could be that the
transformer connections are identically colour-coded but that the
transformer itself has been wired differently. If so, just reverse the
b+ and 300b anode connections on one amplifier. I suppose you should
find out which amp is out of phase, and reverse the other one, but
unless the new owner is one of these "absolute phase" nuts, it doesn't
matter provided they are both equally phased.

S.

--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

I have had to laugh...
 

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:
"Serge Auckland" wrote

One of the many benefits of overall negative feedback in a valve amp
is that it ensures you get the output transformer phased right. With
no overall NF on these amps, they will work equally well either way
round. There's no excuse for sloppy manufacture, but at least with
NF, it would never have left the factory like that. (assuming of
course that they were tested at all)


OK Serge, where is this going to have happened then?

I'm certain I haven't buggered up the coax signal wires but I'm
equally certain they amps are out of phase, is it likely to be the
transformers? Doesn't help the amps are handed but the speaker
connectors are colour coded red/black/red, so it's not a question of
how they are hooked up!





This isn't something that has changed, they must have been like that
from new. There's no mechanism that will change the phase.


No, I didn't expect there would be and it's a certainty the first owner
would not have fiddled with them.


Nick's
suggestion is correct, compare the connections in and out of the
output transformer, and see if they are different. It could be that
the transformer connections are identically colour-coded but that the
transformer itself has been wired differently. If so, just reverse the
b+ and 300b anode connections on one amplifier.


As I said earlier (?), they are no longer here. Whether or not the
present owner will want anything done about it (or even agrees) remains
to be seen.

I suppose you should
find out which amp is out of phase, and reverse the other one, but
unless the new owner is one of these "absolute phase" nuts, it doesn't
matter provided they are both equally phased.


Which he can do with the speaker leads!

I have had to laugh...
 

"Keith G" wrote in message

Having *fixed* the 'high end' 300B SET monos:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/BothAmps.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Together.JPG


...earlier today, I have had a very good opportunity to
compare them with my POS Chinese 300B SET stereo amp:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/myhifi/Bez%20T3B-3.JPG


...and I'm sorry to say the Chinky knocks the crap out of
them!! (More if anyone is interested...)

But that's not important....

What is important is that they are (and, I suspect,
always have been) *out of phase* with each other!! And
no, before you ask, there's no way I got the I/P signal
wire twisted up!!
Larf? Do ewe not hafta...??

I got to laugh at people who deify obsolete power supply regulator tubes as
audio nirvanna.

I have had to laugh...
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

What is important is that they are (and, I suspect,
always have been) *out of phase* with each other!! And
no, before you ask, there's no way I got the I/P signal
wire twisted up!!
Larf? Do ewe not hafta...??


I got to laugh at people who deify obsolete power supply regulator tubes as
audio nirvanna.



Sorry Arni, you lost me there, which regulator tubes are you talking about?

--
Nick

I have had to laugh...
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Keith G" wrote


What is important is that they are (and, I suspect,
always have been) *out of phase* with each other!! And
no, before you ask, there's no way I got the I/P signal
wire twisted up!!
Larf? Do ewe not hafta...??

I got to laugh at people who deify obsolete power supply regulator
tubes as audio nirvanna.


Me too - I larf at anyone who feels the need to deify *anything*.....

I have had to laugh...
 

"Keith G" wrote


I returned the amps earlier this evening - it's the new owners problem
(for now)! Anyway, maybe he'll disagree with me about the phase (doubt
it) - if he does I'll mention it here.


I received this last night:

"just a very quick note to thankyou for sorting the amps out so quickly.
I will talk to you in the next day or to about it, but can you tell me
which amp is the one which is out of phase."

:-)


Anyway, it looks like they *are* out of phase and I was informed in a
subsequent phone conversation that this guy's work colleague (where the
TLS80s came from) had apparently said he thought they sounded 'vague'
when he heard them a while back!! As I said before, I feel sorry for the
original owner of the amps who has almost certainly never heard them
right! (Or he would have mentioned it to me!)

I have had to laugh...
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

What is important is that they are (and, I suspect,
always have been) *out of phase* with each other!! And
no, before you ask, there's no way I got the I/P signal
wire twisted up!!
Larf? Do ewe not hafta...??


I got to laugh at people who deify obsolete power supply
regulator tubes as audio nirvanna.



Sorry Arni, you lost me there, which regulator tubes are
you talking about?

300B

I have had to laugh...
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Nick Gorham" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

What is important is that they are (and, I suspect,
always have been) *out of phase* with each other!! And
no, before you ask, there's no way I got the I/P signal
wire twisted up!!
Larf? Do ewe not hafta...??


I got to laugh at people who deify obsolete power supply
regulator tubes as audio nirvanna.



Sorry Arni, you lost me there, which regulator tubes are
you talking about?

300B


http://www.audiyo.com/product_desc2....at=66&cat2=150

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...0840&rd=1&rd=1


Or, I suppose you could feed a handful of straw to a cow with
tuberculosis...??

I have had to laugh...
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:
Sorry Arni, you lost me there, which regulator tubes are you talking
about?

300B


http://www.audiyo.com/product_desc2....at=66&cat2=150

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...0840&rd=1&rd=1


Or, I suppose you could feed a handful of straw to a cow with
tuberculosis...??

Perhaps to get that true audiophile sound you'd also use all the other
components identical in design to those of the 1930s?

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.