Polar pattern mysteries...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
*Yes, I know about not storing ribbons on their side (or banging them
down hard)..!!

When I worked for BBC TV, ribbons - mainly the 4038 - were still very
much
in use and were always stored on their side. And used near horizontal
as
audience reaction mics.


The instructions with the mic were quite explicit and the 'flight case'
is upright to prevent long-term storage of the mic on its side - it's
maybe a 'then and now' thing or possibly to do with the 52mm ribbon
length in my mic...??

Polar pattern mysteries...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
*Yes, I know about not storing ribbons on their side (or banging them
down hard)..!!

When I worked for BBC TV, ribbons - mainly the 4038 - were still very
much in use and were always stored on their side. And used near
horizontal as audience reaction mics.


The instructions with the mic were quite explicit and the 'flight case'
is upright to prevent long-term storage of the mic on its side - it's
maybe a 'then and now' thing or possibly to do with the 52mm ribbon
length in my mic...??

The BBC box for the 4038 was a wondrous wood affair - quite as high
quality as the mic. Sort of cigar box shaped. With feet on the bottom
suggesting the normal position for storage was mic 'front' down. But to
save storage space they were always stored vertically so with the mic on
its side. Indeed the carrying handle meant it would be like this when
moved.

I'd be a bit worried about the life of the ribbon if gravity could effect
it in this way.

The predecessor to the 4038 was the lovely AXBT - picture in the website
you gave. Not sure how they were stored - most were permanently rigged in
radio studios, and before my time in TV. I've got a working one. Stored
face down. ;-) The ribbon on that is pretty long.

--
*Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Polar pattern mysteries...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
*Yes, I know about not storing ribbons on their side (or banging
them
down hard)..!!

When I worked for BBC TV, ribbons - mainly the 4038 - were still
very
much in use and were always stored on their side. And used near
horizontal as audience reaction mics.


The instructions with the mic were quite explicit and the 'flight
case'
is upright to prevent long-term storage of the mic on its side - it's
maybe a 'then and now' thing or possibly to do with the 52mm ribbon
length in my mic...??

The BBC box for the 4038 was a wondrous wood affair - quite as high
quality as the mic. Sort of cigar box shaped. With feet on the bottom
suggesting the normal position for storage was mic 'front' down. But
to
save storage space they were always stored vertically so with the mic
on
its side. Indeed the carrying handle meant it would be like this when
moved.

I'd be a bit worried about the life of the ribbon if gravity could
effect
it in this way.

The predecessor to the 4038 was the lovely AXBT - picture in the
website
you gave.


Hah! Did you make this connection:

http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/microphones.shtml

They are still making the buggers (4038) it seems! (I wonder how the
prices would compare to the Chinkie equivalents??)


Not sure how they were stored - most were permanently rigged in
radio studios, and before my time in TV. I've got a working one.
Stored
face down. ;-) The ribbon on that is pretty long.


Instructions to *amateurs* on what are, essentially, toy mics and which
typically err on the right side (to cater for the LCD, presumably) are
always going to be eschewed by those in the *professional environment*
are they not?

Polar pattern mysteries...
 

"Keith G" wrote


Hah! Did you make this connection:

http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/microphones.shtml

They are still making the buggers (4038) it seems! (I wonder how the
prices would compare to the Chinkie equivalents??)



Bit of a clue he

http://www.soundpure.com/showManufacturer.do?id=38


But it looks like they are willing to *deal*...!! :-)

Or there's a bargain here for someone with a) the need and b) more
bloody money to throw at the situation than I have!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Coles-4038-Mat...QQcmdZViewItem


(Check out the Seller's other listings also and figure why I buy Chinky
stuff at about 1/10th the price!! :-)

Polar pattern mysteries...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The predecessor to the 4038 was the lovely AXBT - picture in the
website
you gave.


Hah! Did you make this connection:

http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/microphones.shtml

They are still making the buggers (4038) it seems! (I wonder how the
prices would compare to the Chinkie equivalents??)

ISTR it's pretty expensive. And most probably go straight into a display
or museum. The lip ribbon shown alongside is still a useful mic - not much
can touch it for commentary in a noisy environment. (That's not to say the
4038 isn't still a good mic - but there are cheaper more versatile and
robust alternatives)


Not sure how they were stored - most were permanently rigged in
radio studios, and before my time in TV. I've got a working one.
Stored
face down. ;-) The ribbon on that is pretty long.


Instructions to *amateurs* on what are, essentially, toy mics and which
typically err on the right side (to cater for the LCD, presumably) are
always going to be eschewed by those in the *professional environment*
are they not?

It probably depends. When I worked for the BBC there were always plenty
of spares. As a freelance my own mics cost money to fix. So I take care of
them. It would also depend on application - recording or radio studio mics
may sometimes be left rigged or kept in a nearby cupboard whereas those in
a TV studio or location are de-rigged after use and stored elsewhere, so
need to be easily transportable.

Some of these Chinese and Russian mics are not bad value for money. But
as regards pro use, good mics have a very long life if spares and service
are available, so the initial cost isn't quite as important as those. And
if they are anything like most Chinese products there will be zero backup
- just replacement if faulty within the warranty period.

--
*I see you've set aside this special time to humiliate yourself in public

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Polar pattern mysteries...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Keith G" wrote


Hah! Did you make this connection:

http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/microphones.shtml

They are still making the buggers (4038) it seems! (I wonder how the
prices would compare to the Chinkie equivalents??)



Bit of a clue he

http://www.soundpure.com/showManufacturer.do?id=38


But it looks like they are willing to *deal*...!! :-)

I was going to guess at the thick end of a grand - the same as most decent
mics.

Or there's a bargain here for someone with a) the need and b) more
bloody money to throw at the situation than I have!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Coles-4038-Mat...QQcmdZViewItem

Plenty of hype in the text. I've not seen them used that much recently.
But Iain will be along shortly to say 'everyone uses them'. The same as
everyone uses valves and analogue tape recorders. ;-)


(Check out the Seller's other listings also and figure why I buy Chinky
stuff at about 1/10th the price!! :-)

See my previous post about spares and service.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Polar pattern mysteries...
 

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:53:26 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
*Yes, I know about not storing ribbons on their side (or banging them
down hard)..!!

When I worked for BBC TV, ribbons - mainly the 4038 - were still very
much in use and were always stored on their side. And used near
horizontal as audience reaction mics.


The instructions with the mic were quite explicit and the 'flight case'
is upright to prevent long-term storage of the mic on its side - it's
maybe a 'then and now' thing or possibly to do with the 52mm ribbon
length in my mic...??

The BBC box for the 4038 was a wondrous wood affair - quite as high
quality as the mic. Sort of cigar box shaped. With feet on the bottom
suggesting the normal position for storage was mic 'front' down. But to
save storage space they were always stored vertically so with the mic on
its side. Indeed the carrying handle meant it would be like this when
moved.

I'd be a bit worried about the life of the ribbon if gravity could effect
it in this way.

The predecessor to the 4038 was the lovely AXBT - picture in the website
you gave. Not sure how they were stored - most were permanently rigged in
radio studios, and before my time in TV. I've got a working one. Stored
face down. ;-) The ribbon on that is pretty long.

My Grampian ribbon is now over forty years old, and has been stored
face down all that time (when not in use, of course), and as far as I
can see, the ribbon is still centred exactly in the gap.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Polar pattern mysteries...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Keith G" wrote


Hah! Did you make this connection:

http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/microphones.shtml

They are still making the buggers (4038) it seems! (I wonder how
the
prices would compare to the Chinkie equivalents??)



Bit of a clue he

http://www.soundpure.com/showManufacturer.do?id=38


But it looks like they are willing to *deal*...!! :-)

I was going to guess at the thick end of a grand - the same as most
decent
mics.

Or there's a bargain here for someone with a) the need and b) more
bloody money to throw at the situation than I have!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Coles-4038-Mat...QQcmdZViewItem

Plenty of hype in the text. I've not seen them used that much
recently.
But Iain will be along shortly to say 'everyone uses them'. The same
as
everyone uses valves and analogue tape recorders. ;-)


(Check out the Seller's other listings also and figure why I buy
Chinky
stuff at about 1/10th the price!! :-)

See my previous post about spares and service.


The downside of ultra-cheap kit is that it simply isn't worth servicing
or getting repaired. It's cheaper/quicker to bin it - which is not
satisfactory I know and wouldn't suit a 'pro' who knows the sound from
his mics (presumably) and relies on it, but not a problem to me with the
relatively little use they will get.

Polar pattern mysteries...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The predecessor to the 4038 was the lovely AXBT - picture in the
website
you gave.


Hah! Did you make this connection:

http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/microphones.shtml

They are still making the buggers (4038) it seems! (I wonder how the
prices would compare to the Chinkie equivalents??)

ISTR it's pretty expensive. And most probably go straight into a
display
or museum. The lip ribbon shown alongside is still a useful mic - not
much
can touch it for commentary in a noisy environment. (That's not to say
the
4038 isn't still a good mic - but there are cheaper more versatile and
robust alternatives)


Not sure how they were stored - most were permanently rigged in
radio studios, and before my time in TV. I've got a working one.
Stored
face down. ;-) The ribbon on that is pretty long.


Instructions to *amateurs* on what are, essentially, toy mics and
which
typically err on the right side (to cater for the LCD, presumably)
are
always going to be eschewed by those in the *professional
environment*
are they not?

It probably depends. When I worked for the BBC there were always
plenty
of spares. As a freelance my own mics cost money to fix. So I take
care of
them. It would also depend on application - recording or radio studio
mics
may sometimes be left rigged or kept in a nearby cupboard whereas
those in
a TV studio or location are de-rigged after use and stored elsewhere,
so
need to be easily transportable.

Some of these Chinese and Russian mics are not bad value for money.
But
as regards pro use, good mics have a very long life if spares and
service
are available, so the initial cost isn't quite as important as those.
And
if they are anything like most Chinese products there will be zero
backup
- just replacement if faulty within the warranty period.


Maybe the manufacturers of my ribbon are overly-paranoid or perhaps the
ribbons are ****e and not as tough as they used to be - the tone of the
'instructions' is pretty scary throughout, in this respect:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/R1Page1.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/R1Page2.JPG

See para 8 in particular:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/R1Close%20Up.JPG

??

Polar pattern mysteries...
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..


snip


Suggestions/caveats welcome....

Bag the tubes.


I suspect that means exactly the opposite in the US to what it does in the
UK...



If you don't know what you are doing, stick with known quantities. That
means there is something to be said for a known brand with a track record
of sorts like Studio Projects, versus a relatively unknown brand like
"Golden Age Project".



Too late, I already plumped for another unknown! (Alctron??) Asitappens, I
already have a 'Golden Age Project' mic - the 'active' ribbon in these
pix:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Mics01.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Mics02.JPG *


...and I hafta say it sounds fine to me.

Your recordings seem to be fine enough, at least sonically. I won't comment
on their musical content.

However, the instruments used are not exactly the kind that reveals critical
differnces among mics. In a phrase - no real high end due to the choice of
instruments.