"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle tonight and had a
chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the lot, and by some
margin.

Two 845 amps were admired for their top to bottom "authority". I
thought they were a bit bland compared to the life in the 300b amp.

A Push Pull EL34 amp with feedback was very forgettable. On the other
hand a KT88 amp with feedback switched off was not bad at all, though
inferior to the 845s and of course the 300b.

The Bez amps did have some good 300bs fitted, plus some nice 6J5gt
variants (including the 2C22).

This all made me very curious about what others have found in Chinese
amp shootouts. Keith, for example, must have a rank order of the best
by now!!

So - what's your experience of Chinese valve amps? Andy


Hi Andy. I have repaired a few (but not a Bez, which,
by all accounts is indeed one of the best)

It seems to me the Chinese alternative is a two-edged sword.
It gives people the chance to try a valve amp, without spending
a huge amount of money. But at the same time, reliability is nothing
like as good as it should be. This is reflected in very low second
hand value. People could get the idea that *all* valve amps are
unreliable.

Cosmetically they are quite good (you either like the Chinese "style"
or youi don't:-) You could not buy a stainless steel chassis here in
the EU for the price of a complete Chinese amplifier.

The ones I have worked on have simple faults, caused by poor quality
under-specified components - like skeleton pots for bias adjust etc.

Most have potted transformers. I suspect the transformers are quite
a lot smaller than the pots, because the bandwidth of these amps at
full power is pretty poor.

Under the deck, these amplifiers bear a remarkable similarity, as
if there is one generic board for many different versions. I have the
feeling that most of the brands come from the same factory.

I have seen one with a "Elps" (sic) input potentiometer.

Last winter I was in Viet Nam. I visited an audio wholesaler, who
offered me any ten Chinese amps in the warehouse for USD 1 000.

Most of them seem to be sold direct, not through a local dealer.
So, to whom to you turn when the amp fails?

Also, the ones I have seen carry no CE mark

Having said all that, as an entry level amp, they cannot be beaten,
as long as you don't expect something for nothing.

Cheers
Iain

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
oups.com...
We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle tonight and had a
chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the lot, and by some
margin.




What speakers did you use in the comparison?

Steve

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


Your Dynaudios might sound very nice on a 300B SET but I think it
would be a struggle to get any real *loudness* from such a set (oops)
up! If you do manage to swing by, we can damn soon set up some
comparisons but, fie were you, I'd cut to the chase and go straight
to the 300B and make it work!

Just my toupee....


Cheers Keith - I'm sure it'll 'just work', and loudness is for the SS
amp. I take it the Bez is the SET of choice - I'll keep an eye out.


Rob, I'm not punting Bez - I like the one I've got and I can cope with
its 'character', but if I had to say which were the *best* 300Bs I have
heard, it would have to be the 'Bluebell Audio' 300B SET monos that my
friend Tone the Clone has!

(Take this as a 'rough guide' - if a triode amp is built with PCBs than
give it a miss; it's not *real*, it's only a 'pretend' triode amp...!!
;-)

On Sep 23, 8:35?pm, "Steve" wrote:
"Andy Evans" wrote in message

oups.com...

We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle tonight and had a
chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the lot, and by some
margin.

What speakers did you use in the comparison?

Steve
Don't know - two way box on stilts. Dynaudio clone probably. Seemed to
do the job well.

"Iain Churches" wrote



Hi Andy. I have repaired a few (but not a Bez, which,
by all accounts is indeed one of the best)

It seems to me the Chinese alternative is a two-edged sword.
It gives people the chance to try a valve amp, without spending
a huge amount of money. But at the same time, reliability is nothing
like as good as it should be. This is reflected in very low second
hand value. People could get the idea that *all* valve amps are
unreliable.

Cosmetically they are quite good (you either like the Chinese "style"
or youi don't:-) You could not buy a stainless steel chassis here in
the EU for the price of a complete Chinese amplifier.

The ones I have worked on have simple faults, caused by poor quality
under-specified components - like skeleton pots for bias adjust etc.

Most have potted transformers. I suspect the transformers are quite
a lot smaller than the pots, because the bandwidth of these amps at
full power is pretty poor.

Under the deck, these amplifiers bear a remarkable similarity, as
if there is one generic board for many different versions. I have the
feeling that most of the brands come from the same factory.

I have seen one with a "Elps" (sic) input potentiometer.

Last winter I was in Viet Nam. I visited an audio wholesaler, who
offered me any ten Chinese amps in the warehouse for USD 1 000.

Most of them seem to be sold direct, not through a local dealer.
So, to whom to you turn when the amp fails?

Also, the ones I have seen carry no CE mark

Having said all that, as an entry level amp, they cannot be beaten,
as long as you don't expect something for nothing.



Difficult/impossible to disagree with anything you have said, but I have
to repeat that if the entry level for a 300B SET was an unavoidable
3,500 UKP or so, I would not have wandered off in that direction and
would probably not have got one myself. Buying cheap to 'practice with'
isn't confined to valve amps - it's the natural way in for a lot of
people in a lot of different ways and I suspect a lot more people will
progress from a cheap SET to a better one than will have been put off by
one going tits-up.

I would also add that I'm not too keen on the latest wave of Chinese
offerings; as you say: 'potted tranies', 'PCBs' and 'pretty boy'
cosmetics - all smacks of smart entrepreneurial types riding the wave of
some current fad which always (IMO) ultimately degrades rather than
enhances....

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Sep 23, 8:35?pm, "Steve" wrote:
"Andy Evans" wrote in message

oups.com...

We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle tonight and had a
chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the lot, and by some
margin.

What speakers did you use in the comparison?

Steve
Don't know - two way box on stilts. Dynaudio clone probably. Seemed to
do the job well.


I would be interested also to know what kind of music was auditioned.
SET makes an excellent job of a small range of material, which dealers
always use in demos: vocal and piano, string quartet etc. Listen to
Duke Ellington or Mike Westbrook and you will probably be *very*
disappointed.

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi
"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
ps.com...
On Sep 23, 8:35?pm, "Steve"
wrote:
"Andy Evans" wrote in
message oups.com...

We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle
tonight and had a chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the
lot, and by some margin.

What speakers did you use in the comparison?

Steve
Don't know - two way box on stilts. Dynaudio clone
probably. Seemed to do the job well.


I would be interested also to know what kind of music was
auditioned. SET makes an excellent job of a small range
of material, which dealers always use in demos: vocal and
piano, string quartet etc. Listen to Duke Ellington or
Mike Westbrook and you will probably be *very*
disappointed.

Good point. I listened to a ton of SETs at HE2005 and found exactly what you
describe.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi
"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
ps.com...
On Sep 23, 8:35?pm, "Steve"
wrote:
"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
oups.com...

We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle
tonight and had a chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the
lot, and by some margin.

What speakers did you use in the comparison?

Steve
Don't know - two way box on stilts. Dynaudio clone
probably. Seemed to do the job well.


I would be interested also to know what kind of music was
auditioned. SET makes an excellent job of a small range
of material, which dealers always use in demos: vocal and
piano, string quartet etc. Listen to Duke Ellington or
Mike Westbrook and you will probably be *very*
disappointed.

Good point. I listened to a ton of SETs at HE2005 and found exactly
what you describe.


*Ton* of SETs you say...??

Wot? - Are they becoming *popular* or summat??

:-)

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi
"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
ps.com...
On Sep 23, 8:35?pm, "Steve"
wrote:
"Andy Evans" wrote in
message
oups.com...

We had an amp shootout in the London Audiocircle
tonight and had a chance to hear 5 chinese amps.

A pair of Bez T3B 300b SETs sounded the best of the
lot, and by some margin.

What speakers did you use in the comparison?

Steve
Don't know - two way box on stilts. Dynaudio clone
probably. Seemed to do the job well.


I would be interested also to know what kind of music
was auditioned. SET makes an excellent job of a small
range of material, which dealers always use in demos:
vocal and piano, string quartet etc. Listen to Duke
Ellington or Mike Westbrook and you will probably be
*very* disappointed.

Good point. I listened to a ton of SETs at HE2005 and
found exactly what you describe.


*Ton* of SETs you say...??

Wot? - Are they becoming *popular* or summat??

People trying to sell them were plentiful. Nobody with a pair of ears and an
idea of what large-format music sounds like would ever buy one. Most of the
SETsters were playing solo works.

"Arny Krueger" wrote


Good point. I listened to a ton of SETs at HE2005 and
found exactly what you describe.


*Ton* of SETs you say...??

Wot? - Are they becoming *popular* or summat??

People trying to sell them were plentiful. Nobody with a pair of ears
and an idea of what large-format music sounds like would ever buy one.
Most of the SETsters were playing solo works.


The idea that a SET amp can't play 'complex' music is too ridiculous for
words - name the piece and I'll do a mic recording of it (or as close as
I can get) from my one of my SETs!