"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Jim Lesurf wrote:
snip

If SACD or DVD-A had (or does) take over from CD I'd be quite happy with
them, too, and to buy them rather than CD. I have no particular
emotional
attachment to the CD. Just use it to deliver the musical enjoyment it
provides. But my "focus" isn't on the CD or LP. Its on the music.


Sounds reductionist to me - do you think ends justify means?

That aside, and much as I get something out of vinyl 'rituals', I still
go back to the sound. I statrted listening to Blonde on Blonde on SACD
with a vengeance last night, but couldn't hack it. Ended up playing the
scratchy vinyl version, followed by an even scratchier Self Portrait.

Bliss :-)


:-)

Are we back to the discussion on why CDs,SACDs DVDs etc are mastered so
badly that one actually prefers the scratchy vinyl?

S.



--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Rob" wrote in message
...
Jim Lesurf wrote:
snip

If SACD or DVD-A had (or does) take over from CD I'd be quite happy
with
them, too, and to buy them rather than CD. I have no particular
emotional
attachment to the CD. Just use it to deliver the musical enjoyment
it
provides. But my "focus" isn't on the CD or LP. Its on the music.


Sounds reductionist to me - do you think ends justify means?

That aside, and much as I get something out of vinyl 'rituals', I
still go back to the sound. I statrted listening to Blonde on Blonde
on SACD with a vengeance last night, but couldn't hack it. Ended up
playing the scratchy vinyl version, followed by an even scratchier
Self Portrait.

Bliss :-)


:-)

Are we back to the discussion on why CDs,SACDs DVDs etc are mastered
so badly that one actually prefers the scratchy vinyl?


It's not that simple, Serge - playing proper *records* punches a lot
more buttons for some people than some of the other methods of the
(sterile) efficient and convenient reproduction of 'recorded sound'!!

They *play music* for a start...!! ;-)

In article , Rob
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote: snip

If SACD or DVD-A had (or does) take over from CD I'd be quite happy
with them, too, and to buy them rather than CD. I have no particular
emotional attachment to the CD. Just use it to deliver the musical
enjoyment it provides. But my "focus" isn't on the CD or LP. Its on
the music.


Sounds reductionist to me - do you think ends justify means?

Sorry, afraid I'm not a philosopher. Gave up drinking that much many years
ago. :-)

As someone with an interest in engineering and physics I enjoy studying how
audio systems work, and to some extent designing/modifying them. (And more
recently, trying to explain how things work.)

But when I sit down to listen to music, that is what I am doing.

When working as an audio 'pro' I spent many hours doing things like staring
at a scope whilst playing LPs, looking for signs of various problems, or
listening for odd effects that gave away speaker/amp effects. Happy not to
bother with that these days, and just enjoy the music.

Bliss :-)

Varies. I can't say that "bliss" is what I feel when listening to, say,
Britten's War Requiem, or more recently to Bartok's "The Wooden Prince".
But I do find that I get involved in the music and it moves me in various
ways which often words don't easily describe. "Enjoyment", "Involvement",
and getting into a state of simply appreciating what I hear up until the
item ends and I wish it hadn't yet, perhaps.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

On 21 Oct, wrote:
In article

Even including these, the number of manufacturing 'faults' I've
encountered with CD are a tiny fraction of the number for LP. Ratio of
the order of 50:1. If I exclude them it is well over 100:1. Indeed a
ratio so high as to become difficult to assess statistically. And the
replacements were all fine - very different to the situation I
experienced with LP.

The Law of Sod still rules. :-)

Having posted comments about my experience with the level of manufacturing
faults for CD versus LP, guess what?...

Yes. I've just encountered what looks like a CD with a maufacturing fault.

....and its EMI again.

Does anyone else have a copy of:

Classics For Pleasure 82229
Philharmonia Orchestra, conducted by Nicolai Malko
Prokofiev 1st/7th symphonies, plus Love for Three Oranges suite
Tchaikovsky Nutcracker suite

?

If so, does your copy play without any problems right to the end of the
final track?

I've now tried two copies of the above, on two different CD players, plus
an Arcam DVD137, and a Pioneer PDR509. None of these can play either copy
of this disc right to the end. The problems are in the last few seconds of
the final track. So I am not sure if it is a faulty batch/run or if the
entire production is faulty.

Annoying as the music and recording seem very good to me. The 7th is
apparently the first commerical stereo recording EMI made, and to my ears
the simple use of microphones, etc, gives the result a very natural
acoustic and dynamics.... at least up until the last 20 seconds or so.

To the best of my recollection it is years since I last encountered a CD
with a manufacuring fault like this. But it doesn't stop it being annoying
as it spoils the end of the final movement on the disc.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote

snip CD tale of woe

Classics For Pleasure 82229
Philharmonia Orchestra, conducted by Nicolai Malko
Prokofiev 1st/7th symphonies, plus Love for Three Oranges suite
Tchaikovsky Nutcracker suite


Nice.

Annoying as the music and recording seem very good to me. The 7th is
apparently the first commerical stereo recording EMI made, and to my
ears
the simple use of microphones, etc, gives the result a very natural
acoustic and dynamics.... at least up until the last 20 seconds or so.


Ah, the 'au naturelle' analogie recordings of the 50s and 60s/early
70s...??

I find "Kingsway Hall, London, England (02/07/1955 - 02/09/1955)" he

http://www.buymusichere.net/rel/v2_v...pc=09463822292



To the best of my recollection it is years since I last encountered a
CD
with a manufacuring fault like this. But it doesn't stop it being
annoying
as it spoils the end of the final movement on the disc.


Try making a CDR copy of it - chances are the computer'll read it OK and
the copy will play fine. Worth the effort and what's to lose?

In article , Keith G
wrote:


Try making a CDR copy of it - chances are the computer'll read it OK and
the copy will play fine. Worth the effort and what's to lose?

"Chances" were wrong in this case. I'd already checked that and the final
track is reported as faulty. All the other tracks are readable.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Keith G
wrote:



Try making a CDR copy of it - chances are the computer'll read it OK and
the copy will play fine. Worth the effort and what's to lose?


"Chances" were wrong in this case. I'd already checked that and the final
track is reported as faulty. All the other tracks are readable.

Slainte,

Jim


Not sure if you have a Windows machine at hand Jim, but have you troed
EAC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exact_Audio_Copy

--
Nick

In article ,
Nick Gorham wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:


Not sure if you have a Windows machine at hand Jim, but have you troed
EAC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exact_Audio_Copy

I do have a doze box a couple of feet away. :-) However it looks like the
problem is that the information simply isn't on the CDs. The CDROM drive I
used was unable to even start reading the relevant portion as it could not
even track the outer parts. FWIW Although I don't use doze software
normally, what I have used does do retries, etc. But of course that doesn't
help if the underlaying data isn't present.

I suspect that the problem is that the disc contents total to slightly over
80 mins, and EMI couldn't be bothered to ensure that the information layer
was made correctly right out to the edge of the implied diameter.

I've also asked the retailer to check their stock to see how other copies
perform. But I wondered if others here had encountered the same problem
with the disc. Curious to see if this is a 'batch' problem or if they're
all faulty.

If the retailer can find a copy that is OK, then I'll simply take that and
return the faulty ones for him to send back to EMI.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html