On Oct 19, 12:11 am, "Iain Churches" wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote

Real tubies build real valve amp kits, like
my Velleman K4000, three EL34 per side for 18W in Class A and 101W in
Class B (measured, they claim only 16/96W). Now that is an amp that
leaves hairy footprints.

Interesting you should mention the Velleman. It is indeed a good sounding
amp. It is a long time since I have seen a K4000, but I seem to recollect
it had four EL34's in push pull parallel per side.

PPP.

It seems as though the K4000 is discontinued.

Mine is ancient. Early to mid-1990s, at a guess, without looking up
the reviews I wrote of it.

I listened to a 4040 not too long ago, with a pair of splendid Tannoy
Canterbury
SE speakers. Very pleasing indeed. The amp was running far below its full
power potential.

Quite a bizarre thing to say, I suppose, but the Velleman is probably
overmatched to the Tannoys. It has around 16 to 18W in Class A alone.
I sometimes used mine for driving a bass bin, where its 100W in Class
A/B could sometimes come into play, at least theoretically (I'm not a
headbanger).

The noise floor was exceptionally low. Later, a quick
look on the bench revealed the noise floor to be 100µV, so a
SNR of 105dB and at 96W, the THD was only 0.1%

It depends on your outlook whether you view the Velleman K40x0 as that
rare thing, a perfect all-round amp -- or as a perfectly schizophrenic
amp: on the one hand superbly well designed and good-sounding,
escpecially in that very hefty Class A segment, a delicate match to
ESL-63, on the other hand a brutish bass thumper on demand. As an all-
round amp of excellent quality and durability it is of course a very
great bargain at the price.

The Belgians know how to make more than just chocolates:-)

We used to make a round trip of 50 miles to buy Belgian chocolates in
Cork...

Regards
Iain

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

On Oct 19, 6:27 am, Andre Jute wrote:
On Oct 19, 12:11 am, "Iain Churches" wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote

Real tubies build real valve amp kits, like
my Velleman K4000, three EL34 per side for 18W in Class A and 101W in
Class B (measured, they claim only 16/96W). Now that is an amp that
leaves hairy footprints.


This was the all-on-a PCB, toroidal output transformer kit offered
for well in four figures through OCSL at around that time. I thought
it was a stinky deal then and worse now. Toroid outputs and PCB
mounted power tubes are just not a good idea.

overmatched to the Tannoys. It has around 16 to 18W in Class A alone.
I sometimes used mine for driving a bass bin, where its 100W in Class
A/B could sometimes come into play, at least theoretically (I'm not a
headbanger).



hey-Hey!!!,
An amp with maximum output happening with one phase of its PP set cut
off is *NOT* class A. A real class A amp has both phases conducting at
maximum power, and not from some variable pitch grid winding, remote
cut-off stuff either.

That Vellman amp is an AB, and barely so at that.
cheers,
Douglas

In article . com,
Multi-grid wrote:

hey-Hey!!!,
An amp with maximum output happening with one phase of its PP set cut
off is *NOT* class A. A real class A amp has both phases conducting at
maximum power, and not from some variable pitch grid winding, remote
cut-off stuff either.

Is there actually a power tube with a variable pitch grid winding
designed to do this? I never heard about it before, inquiring minds
want to know more.


Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

On Oct 20, 2:18 am, John Byrns wrote:
In article . com,

Multi-grid wrote:
hey-Hey!!!,
An amp with maximum output happening with one phase of its PP set cut
off is *NOT* class A. A real class A amp has both phases conducting at
maximum power, and not from some variable pitch grid winding, remote
cut-off stuff either.

Is there actually a power tube with a variable pitch grid winding
designed to do this? I never heard about it before, inquiring minds
want to know more.

Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

Hi John,
I don't know of any either, but given the definition of Class A, I
thought it wise to rule out the remote cut-off behaviour that *COULD*
provide a loophole to somebody fixed on disagreement, yes?
cheers,
Douglas

On Oct 19, 3:50 pm, Multi-grid wrote:
overmatched to the Tannoys. It has around 16 to 18W in Class A alone.
I sometimes used mine for driving a bass bin, where its 100W in Class
A/B could sometimes come into play, at least theoretically (I'm not a
headbanger).

hey-Hey!!!,
An amp with maximum output happening with one phase of its PP set cut
off is *NOT* class A. A real class A amp has both phases conducting at
maximum power, and not from some variable pitch grid winding, remote
cut-off stuff either.

That Vellman amp is an AB, and barely so at that.
cheers,
Douglas

What are you on about, Dougles? I just told you, it is a class AB amp.
Class AB amps by definition have some class A output and the rest in
Class B. If you want an unadulterated Class A amp with a 100W output,
you're going to be paying real money, and if you're a snob who wants
it in SE, you're going to be paying Range Rover Vogue money. I know; I
built an 80W SE amp, which of course by definition ran only in Class
A. The Velleman is relatively inexpensive, very sturdy, very good
value amplifier kit from the most famous makers of all kinds of
electronic kits in the world. But its price will look a tip to a
doorman by the time you finish paying for a 100W Class A amp.

And what's that rubbish about "maximum output" anyway? By definition a
class AB amp's Class A output is at some lower power than maximum,
otherwise it would be a Class A amp, period. The whole point about a
Class AB amp is that most music is played where such an amp makes its
sweetest sounds, but that it has headroom for any contingency, though
you sacrifice a little something in quality when that headroom is
taken up.

If your taste is so refined that you must have nothing but Class A,
there are a bunch of designs for Class A amps on my netsite. And, for
the sake of completeness, my own favourite everyday amp is my own T113
"Triple Threat" design, which runs PP EL34s in triode and strictly in
Class A. But you'd need about 8 of those to get 100W...

You know an audiophool snob when he starts talking about "pure" Class
A...

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

On Oct 20, 3:34 am, Andre Jute wrote:
On Oct 19, 3:50 pm, Multi-grid wrote:

overmatched to the Tannoys. It has around 16 to 18W in Class A alone.
I sometimes used mine for driving a bass bin, where its 100W in Class
A/B could sometimes come into play, at least theoretically (I'm not a
headbanger).

hey-Hey!!!,
An amp with maximum output happening with one phase of its PP set cut
off is *NOT* class A. A real class A amp has both phases conducting at
maximum power, and not from some variable pitch grid winding, remote
cut-off stuff either.

That Vellman amp is an AB, and barely so at that.
cheers,
Douglas

What are you on about, Dougles? I just told you, it is a class AB amp.
Class AB amps by definition have some class A output and the rest in
Class B.

No it doesn't, it has no power in Class A. That's why it is called an
AB amp. It is really simple.


If you want an unadulterated Class A amp with a 100W output,
you're going to be paying real money, and if you're a snob who wants
it in SE, you're going to be paying Range Rover Vogue money. I know; I
built an 80W SE amp, which of course by definition ran only in Class
A. The Velleman is relatively inexpensive, very sturdy, very good
value amplifier kit from the most famous makers of all kinds of
electronic kits in the world. But its price will look a tip to a
doorman by the time you finish paying for a 100W Class A amp.

I don't recall ever telling you what I wanted, or owned, or for that
matter what I've built. None of that has any bearing on your marketing-
based dafynishion of what you'd like an AB amp to be.


And what's that rubbish about "maximum output" anyway? By definition a
class AB amp's Class A output is at some lower power than maximum,
otherwise it would be a Class A amp, period.

Just because both of the finals are conducting does not mean it is
Class A. That is reserved for amps that keep both conducting *AT FULL
POWER*. Why *******ize the definition just because some marketing fool
likes says it's OK? A Class AB amp doesn't have any Class A output.
Both phases conducting does not make Class A....or is that too hard to
grasp?



The whole point about a
Class AB amp is that most music is played where such an amp makes its
sweetest sounds, but that it has headroom for any contingency, though
you sacrifice a little something in quality when that headroom is
taken up.

If your taste is so refined that you must have nothing but Class A,
there are a bunch of designs for Class A amps on my netsite.

I don't think I'll be considering any of those amps. Kinda off-the-
rack and boring.


And, for
the sake of completeness, my own favourite everyday amp is my own T113
"Triple Threat" design, which runs PP EL34s in triode and strictly in
Class A. But you'd need about 8 of those to get 100W...


You know an audiophool snob when he starts talking about "pure" Class
A...

Probably just somebody who knows how to use the language properly. You
can join the club anytime you wish to conduct yourself properly....and
leave it just as quickly.
cheers,
Douglas

On Oct 19, 6:37 pm, Multi-grid wrote:
On Oct 20, 3:34 am, Andre Jute wrote:



On Oct 19, 3:50 pm, Multi-grid wrote:

overmatched to the Tannoys. It has around 16 to 18W in Class A alone.
I sometimes used mine for driving a bass bin, where its 100W in Class
A/B could sometimes come into play, at least theoretically (I'm not a
headbanger).

hey-Hey!!!,
An amp with maximum output happening with one phase of its PP set cut
off is *NOT* class A. A real class A amp has both phases conducting at
maximum power, and not from some variable pitch grid winding, remote
cut-off stuff either.

That Vellman amp is an AB, and barely so at that.
cheers,
Douglas

What are you on about, Dougles? I just told you, it is a class AB amp.
Class AB amps by definition have some class A output and the rest in
Class B.

No it doesn't, it has no power in Class A. That's why it is called an
AB amp. It is really simple.

If you want an unadulterated Class A amp with a 100W output,

you're going to be paying real money, and if you're a snob who wants
it in SE, you're going to be paying Range Rover Vogue money. I know; I
built an 80W SE amp, which of course by definition ran only in Class
A. The Velleman is relatively inexpensive, very sturdy, very good
value amplifier kit from the most famous makers of all kinds of
electronic kits in the world. But its price will look a tip to a
doorman by the time you finish paying for a 100W Class A amp.

I don't recall ever telling you what I wanted, or owned, or for that
matter what I've built. None of that has any bearing on your marketing-
based dafynishion of what you'd like an AB amp to be.



And what's that rubbish about "maximum output" anyway? By definition a
class AB amp's Class A output is at some lower power than maximum,
otherwise it would be a Class A amp, period.

Just because both of the finals are conducting does not mean it is
Class A. That is reserved for amps that keep both conducting *AT FULL
POWER*. Why *******ize the definition just because some marketing fool
likes says it's OK? A Class AB amp doesn't have any Class A output.
Both phases conducting does not make Class A....or is that too hard to
grasp?

The whole point about a

Class AB amp is that most music is played where such an amp makes its
sweetest sounds, but that it has headroom for any contingency, though
you sacrifice a little something in quality when that headroom is
taken up.

If your taste is so refined that you must have nothing but Class A,
there are a bunch of designs for Class A amps on my netsite.

I don't think I'll be considering any of those amps. Kinda off-the-
rack and boring.

And, for

the sake of completeness, my own favourite everyday amp is my own T113
"Triple Threat" design, which runs PP EL34s in triode and strictly in
Class A. But you'd need about 8 of those to get 100W...

You know an audiophool snob when he starts talking about "pure" Class A...

Probably just somebody who knows how to use the language properly. You
can join the club anytime you wish to conduct yourself properly....and
leave it just as quickly.

Yes, I see what this is about: another clown storming into RAT with a
mission to see me off. Thanks for coming, Dougles, but I don't think I
would care to belong to any club that lets you in.

cheers,
Douglas

On Oct 20, 6:42 am, Andre Jute wrote:
On Oct 19, 6:37 pm, Multi-grid wrote:





On Oct 20, 3:34 am, Andre Jute wrote:

On Oct 19, 3:50 pm, Multi-grid wrote:

overmatched to the Tannoys. It has around 16 to 18W in Class A alone.
I sometimes used mine for driving a bass bin, where its 100W in Class
A/B could sometimes come into play, at least theoretically (I'm not a
headbanger).

hey-Hey!!!,
An amp with maximum output happening with one phase of its PP set cut
off is *NOT* class A. A real class A amp has both phases conducting at
maximum power, and not from some variable pitch grid winding, remote
cut-off stuff either.

That Vellman amp is an AB, and barely so at that.
cheers,
Douglas

What are you on about, Dougles? I just told you, it is a class AB amp.
Class AB amps by definition have some class A output and the rest in
Class B.

No it doesn't, it has no power in Class A. That's why it is called an
AB amp. It is really simple.

If you want an unadulterated Class A amp with a 100W output,

you're going to be paying real money, and if you're a snob who wants
it in SE, you're going to be paying Range Rover Vogue money. I know; I
built an 80W SE amp, which of course by definition ran only in Class
A. The Velleman is relatively inexpensive, very sturdy, very good
value amplifier kit from the most famous makers of all kinds of
electronic kits in the world. But its price will look a tip to a
doorman by the time you finish paying for a 100W Class A amp.

I don't recall ever telling you what I wanted, or owned, or for that
matter what I've built. None of that has any bearing on your marketing-
based dafynishion of what you'd like an AB amp to be.

And what's that rubbish about "maximum output" anyway? By definition a
class AB amp's Class A output is at some lower power than maximum,
otherwise it would be a Class A amp, period.

Just because both of the finals are conducting does not mean it is
Class A. That is reserved for amps that keep both conducting *AT FULL
POWER*. Why *******ize the definition just because some marketing fool
likes says it's OK? A Class AB amp doesn't have any Class A output.
Both phases conducting does not make Class A....or is that too hard to
grasp?

The whole point about a

Class AB amp is that most music is played where such an amp makes its
sweetest sounds, but that it has headroom for any contingency, though
you sacrifice a little something in quality when that headroom is
taken up.

If your taste is so refined that you must have nothing but Class A,
there are a bunch of designs for Class A amps on my netsite.

I don't think I'll be considering any of those amps. Kinda off-the-
rack and boring.

And, for

the sake of completeness, my own favourite everyday amp is my own T113
"Triple Threat" design, which runs PP EL34s in triode and strictly in
Class A. But you'd need about 8 of those to get 100W...

You know an audiophool snob when he starts talking about "pure" Class A...

Probably just somebody who knows how to use the language properly. You
can join the club anytime you wish to conduct yourself properly....and
leave it just as quickly.

Yes, I see what this is about: another clown storming into RAT with a
mission to see me off. Thanks for coming, Dougles, but I don't think I
would care to belong to any club that lets you in.



cheers,
Douglas- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

hey-Hey!!!,
Well Andre, you can imagine my mission to be what ever it you want.
Again, that has no bearing what so ever on your mis-use of the
definition. Please stay on topic if you'd be so kind. Quit clouding
the issue please.

Do people go 'storming into RAT with a mission to see me off' alot
lately? Are you paranoid or something? Where would you get such an
idea?

I'll type slowly so you can understand it, this club I referred to
only requires its members to use accepted audio definitions and terms
properly. Of course it doesn't really exist, save for in
metaphore...but an accomplished writer like you would know all this,
right?

While you're at it, a schematic of your 80W SE amp would be nice to
look at.
cheers,
Douglas

On Oct 19, 7:27 am, Andre Jute wrote:
On Oct 19, 12:11 am, "Iain Churches" wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote

Real tubies build real valve amp kits, like
my Velleman K4000, three EL34 per side for 18W in Class A and 101W in
Class B (measured, they claim only 16/96W). Now that is an amp that
leaves hairy footprints.

Interesting you should mention the Velleman. It is indeed a good sounding
amp. It is a long time since I have seen a K4000, but I seem to recollect
it had four EL34's in push pull parallel per side.

PPP.

It seems as though the K4000 is discontinued.

Mine is ancient. Early to mid-1990s, at a guess, without looking up
the reviews I wrote of it.

I listened to a 4040 not too long ago, with a pair of splendid Tannoy
Canterbury
SE speakers. Very pleasing indeed. The amp was running far below its full
power potential.

Quite a bizarre thing to say, I suppose, but the Velleman is probably
overmatched to the Tannoys. It has around 16 to 18W in Class A alone.
I sometimes used mine for driving a bass bin, where its 100W in Class
A/B could sometimes come into play, at least theoretically (I'm not a
headbanger).

The noise floor was exceptionally low. Later, a quick
look on the bench revealed the noise floor to be 100µV, so a
SNR of 105dB and at 96W, the THD was only 0.1%

It depends on your outlook whether you view the Velleman K40x0 as that
rare thing, a perfect all-round amp -- or as a perfectly schizophrenic
amp: on the one hand superbly well designed and good-sounding,
escpecially in that very hefty Class A segment, a delicate match to
ESL-63, on the other hand a brutish bass thumper on demand. As an all-
round amp of excellent quality and durability it is of course a very
great bargain at the price.

The Belgians know how to make more than just chocolates:-)

We used to make a round trip of 50 miles to buy Belgian chocolates in
Cork...

Regards
Iain

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps athttp://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

Of all the decent amps out there why would you pick something like
This?