CD-player died, need advice
 

In article , Trevor Wilson
scribeth thus

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote
in message

**That would be a reasonable assumption. HK have clearly
put a lot of effort into building a quality analogue
section in that machine.

An ultimate quality analog section for a CD player - a 5532, a few penny
resistors, and a couple of caps.

**No, but that is an adequate one. More crucially, however, many cheap
players use vastly inferior OP amps. I've seen 4558 class OP used in many
cheap players. Cheap DVD players are guilty of this. Further, correct
implemented muting can make a big difference. Cheap players use a
transistor, whilst better quality ones use relays. For the record: The HK
uses a transistor. Mine will soon have relays fitted.

Trevor Wilson


A Relay!..A relay!!, All that contact resistance and wrecktification!!!
--
Tony Sayer

CD-player died, need advice
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

The good news is that since Win98 or so, MS's media player has avoided the
audio circuitry in the CD ROM drive, and captured audio via the IDE port.
However, the captured audio still usually had to negotiate the
on-motherboard sound chip.


Thinking that a laptop connected to an up-market USB2-connnected external
sound-card would make a high-quality audio source, I was disturbed to note
that I could hear digital noise in the output. This noise varied with
processor activity but was not coupled via power or ground lines. I guess it
was caused by jitter on the data, but I am in no position to confirm that
(or otherwise).

20 years ago I was building audio servers based on mini-computers and banks
of SCSI hard-drives. The ADC/DAC units were built in-house and connected via
opto-isolated parallel ports. We didn't get this problem

David.

CD-player died, need advice
 

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Trevor Wilson wrote:
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
i.fi...

I am told that the HK does not have even
a pitch control. Many serious listeners, especially those with
an accurate sense of pitch require this.

**Are you suggesting that the recordings are faulty? That is the only way
a CD player can play at the wrong speed. Pitch controls are of no use for
domestic listening. I've seen DJs use them, however.

The speed of a CD player is only as accurate as its quartz oscillator.
I wouldn't be surprised if a player could gain or lose a tenth of a
second during an hour, and vary with temperature. Not that it matters
for normal listening but it makes comparisons difficult.

**A cheap crystal would suffer such poor figures.

Trevor Wilson

CD-player died, need advice
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Trevor Wilson
scribeth thus

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
m...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote
in message

**That would be a reasonable assumption. HK have clearly
put a lot of effort into building a quality analogue
section in that machine.

An ultimate quality analog section for a CD player - a 5532, a few
penny
resistors, and a couple of caps.

**No, but that is an adequate one. More crucially, however, many cheap
players use vastly inferior OP amps. I've seen 4558 class OP used in many
cheap players. Cheap DVD players are guilty of this. Further, correct
implemented muting can make a big difference. Cheap players use a
transistor, whilst better quality ones use relays. For the record: The HK
uses a transistor. Mine will soon have relays fitted.

Trevor Wilson


A Relay!..A relay!!, All that contact resistance and wrecktification!!!

**Points:
* Muting circuits are usually short to ground type operation.
* Decent, hermetically sealed, gold-on-silver relays are not expensive.
Distortion form such contacts is very difficult to measure.

Trevor Wilson

CD-player died, need advice
 

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:55:14 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:

snip

The ultimate measure of sound quality for reproduction equipment is the
origional.

In the case of a CD player, you compare the signal at its output
terminals to the signal that was used to burn the CD being played.


Or, to be more correct, with the original live performance... You have to
take the messing about at production out of the loop! ;-)

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

CD-player died, need advice
 

In article , Trevor Wilson
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Trevor Wilson
scribeth thus

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
om...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote
in message

**That would be a reasonable assumption. HK have clearly
put a lot of effort into building a quality analogue
section in that machine.

An ultimate quality analog section for a CD player - a 5532, a few
penny
resistors, and a couple of caps.

**No, but that is an adequate one. More crucially, however, many cheap
players use vastly inferior OP amps. I've seen 4558 class OP used in many
cheap players. Cheap DVD players are guilty of this. Further, correct
implemented muting can make a big difference. Cheap players use a
transistor, whilst better quality ones use relays. For the record: The HK
uses a transistor. Mine will soon have relays fitted.

Trevor Wilson


A Relay!..A relay!!, All that contact resistance and wrecktification!!!

**Points:
* Muting circuits are usually short to ground type operation.
* Decent, hermetically sealed, gold-on-silver relays are not expensive.
Distortion form such contacts is very difficult to measure.

Trevor Wilson



There was a ;) missing!...

Audiolab's have got them and no problems noted here with them:)
--
Tony Sayer

CD-player died, need advice
 

"Silk" wrote in message


On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 21:55:14 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:

In the case of a CD player, you compare the signal at
its output terminals to the signal that was used to burn
the CD being played.

That's not strictly true as the human ear hears different
types of distortion differently.

The distortion has to be audible to be hear differently.

In this day and age there are few excuses to have equipment that does
recording, playing back, or amplification or other signal processing, that
has audible distortion.

So your point is moot.

CD-player died, need advice
 

"David Looser" wrote in
message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..

The good news is that since Win98 or so, MS's media
player has avoided the audio circuitry in the CD ROM
drive, and captured audio via the IDE port. However, the
captured audio still usually had to negotiate the
on-motherboard sound chip.

Thinking that a laptop connected to an up-market
USB2-connnected external sound-card would make a
high-quality audio source, I was disturbed to note that I
could hear digital noise in the output. This noise varied
with processor activity but was not coupled via power or
ground lines. I guess it was caused by jitter on the
data, but I am in no position to confirm that (or
otherwise).

The noise was probably caused by missing data. The missing data was caused
by bus contention inside the PC. The bus contention inside the PC might be
due to excessive multitasking.

If you re-record the analog output of this computer while playing some low
frequency sine waves, and then examine the re-recording with some audio
editing software, you will probably see the missing data.

20 years ago I was building audio servers based on
mini-computers and banks of SCSI hard-drives. The ADC/DAC
units were built in-house and connected via opto-isolated
parallel ports. We didn't get this problem

Yes, but that was a very expensive specialized computer. Fact is that if you
do the important things right, none of those precautions are required.

CD-player died, need advice
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Trevor Wilson"
wrote in message

**That would be a reasonable assumption. HK have clearly
put a lot of effort into building a quality analogue
section in that machine.

An ultimate quality analog section for a CD player - a
5532, a few penny resistors, and a couple of caps.

**No, but that is an adequate one.

More than adequate - sonically transparent, even at audio production signal
levels.

More crucially, however, many cheap players use vastly inferior OP amps.

Ignorance and fear speaks.

I've seen 4558 class OP used in many cheap players.

They can do the job.

Ignorance and fear speaks.

Cheap DVD players are guilty of this.

It's probably not a sin.

Further, correct
implemented muting can make a big difference. Cheap
players use a transistor,

They can do the job.

Ignorance and fear speaks.

whilst better quality ones use relays.

Slow, noisy, unreliable, and generally provide no audible advantage.

For the record: The HK uses a transistor.

Thanks Trevor for discrediting yourself.

Mine will soon have relays fitted.


Ignorance and fear speaks.

Fact is Trevor, you've never ever done an adquate job of comparing two CD
players. Your worship of those absolutely insanely mis-designed ME
amplfiers says it all.

CD-player died, need advice
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
in message
"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Trevor
Wilson scribeth thus

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Trevor Wilson"
wrote in message

**That would be a reasonable assumption. HK have
clearly put a lot of effort into building a quality
analogue section in that machine.

An ultimate quality analog section for a CD player -
a 5532, a few penny
resistors, and a couple of caps.

**No, but that is an adequate one. More crucially,
however, many cheap players use vastly inferior OP
amps. I've seen 4558 class OP used in many cheap
players. Cheap DVD players are guilty of this. Further,
correct implemented muting can make a big difference.
Cheap players use a transistor, whilst better quality
ones use relays. For the record: The HK uses a
transistor. Mine will soon have relays fitted. Trevor Wilson


A Relay!..A relay!!, All that contact resistance and
wrecktification!!!

**Points:

* Muting circuits are usually short to ground type
operation.

Addresses neither shortcoming of some relays.

* Decent, hermetically sealed, gold-on-silver relays are
not expensive.

But short-lived because the contact materials are way too soft.

Distortion form such contacts is very difficult to measure.

Distortion in transistor muting circuits is very difficult to measure.

Here's a challenge to Trevor - measure the distortion of your CD player and
post the results.