"Eddy" wrote in
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In article i,
Iain Churches wrote:


"Eddy" wrote in message
...
Phil Allison wrote:


"Dave Plowman Nutcase LIAR"



** You are one EVIL pile of sub-human garbage - Plowman.

IOW - a typical pommy ****.





....... Phil



MODERATOR: ban this poster from this group?

Eddy. You ain't seen nothin' yet:-)
Our Phil is just getting warmed up!

Anyone else have a mind picture of our Phil? A sort of Sir Les Patterson
character covering the monitor with spittle before grabbing the blood
pressure tablets?

--
*Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks, David & Tony, re. details of MSF.

As regards my battery-backup issue, here's an update, all, on progress.

After much trouble trying to get through to the right people at Sony, I
have been told by two people there that the "Sony ICF-CD855L CD Clock
Radio" does NOT have the usual form of "battery backup" but that there
IS "battery backup". One of these two people then went on to say she
could find no details about its exact nature OR for how long the backup
would operate in the event of a power failure, though she dared to say
(sounding rather unsure to me) that she thought that all pre-sets and
clock-settings would be preserved "for at least two hours". The other
person is still to come back to me with further details.

Has anyone heard of this apparently new form of "battery backup"?
Sorry, if I appear to be ignorant about it, but almost all the gadgets
that I possess which have battery backup have an aperture somewhere
round the back or underneath into which you fit a good old-fashioned
battery of some sort, if not some slender little battery of the disc
variety. The Sony ICF-CD855L has no such opening in its casing.

The only thing I can think of is that its "backup" system is something
like that in the electronic timer which I bought the other week - in
order to have our washing-machine do its stuff after midnight, during
the cheap period. Its display is LED and if I take the timer out of the
socket, the correct time is retained on the LED screen. So presumably
there's some kind of "battery" in there, though like the above clock
radio there's no aperture in the casing for the fitting of a battery.

So, are they fitting some kind of "eternal" self-charging battery inside
gadgets these days? If so, how "eternal" are they? What's their
life-span?

Thanks.

Eddy.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:41:11 GMT, Eddy
wrote:

After much trouble trying to get through to the right people at Sony, I
have been told by two people there that the "Sony ICF-CD855L CD Clock
Radio" does NOT have the usual form of "battery backup" but that there
IS "battery backup".

snip

So, are they fitting some kind of "eternal" self-charging battery inside
gadgets these days? If so, how "eternal" are they? What's their
life-span?

Probably a simple capacitor. Perfectly standard practice in such
appliances as TV sets and video recorders, ensuring that program data
was not lost if mains power was briefly interrupted.

Eddy wrote:
So, are they fitting some kind of "eternal" self-charging battery inside
gadgets these days? If so, how "eternal" are they? What's their
life-span?

the last mains time switch I took apart after it died had a button cell
Ni-Cd battery on permanent float charge. Life seems to vary from months
to years, with random failures of either the float charging circuit or
the cell. A battery powered clock radio had a 100 microfarad electolytic
capacitor across the battery that normally powered the clock, which
showed correct time without a battery for a few minutes, unless the
radio was turned on....

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

"Eddy" wrote in message
...
Thanks, David & Tony, re. details of MSF.

As regards my battery-backup issue, here's an update, all, on progress.

After much trouble trying to get through to the right people at Sony, I
have been told by two people there that the "Sony ICF-CD855L CD Clock
Radio" does NOT have the usual form of "battery backup" but that there
IS "battery backup". One of these two people then went on to say she
could find no details about its exact nature OR for how long the backup
would operate in the event of a power failure, though she dared to say
(sounding rather unsure to me) that she thought that all pre-sets and
clock-settings would be preserved "for at least two hours". The other
person is still to come back to me with further details.

Has anyone heard of this apparently new form of "battery backup"?
Sorry, if I appear to be ignorant about it, but almost all the gadgets
that I possess which have battery backup have an aperture somewhere
round the back or underneath into which you fit a good old-fashioned
battery of some sort, if not some slender little battery of the disc
variety. The Sony ICF-CD855L has no such opening in its casing.

The only thing I can think of is that its "backup" system is something
like that in the electronic timer which I bought the other week - in
order to have our washing-machine do its stuff after midnight, during
the cheap period. Its display is LED and if I take the timer out of the
socket, the correct time is retained on the LED screen. So presumably
there's some kind of "battery" in there, though like the above clock
radio there's no aperture in the casing for the fitting of a battery.

So, are they fitting some kind of "eternal" self-charging battery inside
gadgets these days? If so, how "eternal" are they? What's their
life-span?


I have a Sony "ghetto-blaster" which includes a capacitor back-up system
that stores the radio tuning presets and other settings for around 5 hours.
The high value capacitor that does this should last for the life of the
unit. Why they couldn't have used flash memory, which stores such settings
indefinitely, I don't know. Maybe the ICF-CD855L has such a system.

Alternatively it might have a rechargable battery, though I would have
expected the data sheet to make that explicit if it was the case. Such
batteries should keep the settings for weeks, and have a life of around 5
years, but are soldered in.

David.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:14:01 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote:




I have a Sony "ghetto-blaster" which includes a capacitor back-up system
that stores the radio tuning presets and other settings for around 5 hours.
The high value capacitor that does this should last for the life of the
unit. Why they couldn't have used flash memory, which stores such settings
indefinitely, I don't know. Maybe the ICF-CD855L has such a system.

Alternatively it might have a rechargable battery, though I would have
expected the data sheet to make that explicit if it was the case. Such
batteries should keep the settings for weeks, and have a life of around 5
years, but are soldered in.

David.


Flash memory is good, but not terribly useful for keeping a clock
ticking. You really do need a battery or capacitor. If this part of
the circuit is made from something like CMOS, then it should be
possible to hang on to the time for days.

But frankly, in the UK this is all a bit moot. Power failures are
rare, and they don't last very long when they happen. I have a few
clock radios that should have batteries. Over the years the batteries
have all run down and I haven't bothered replacing them, very
occasional clock resetting is far less bother.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...


Flash memory is good, but not terribly useful for keeping a clock
ticking.

True, but for keeping tuning presets flash seems to be the obvious choice.
Why so many radios use volatile RAM for this is a mystery to me.

You really do need a battery or capacitor. If this part of
the circuit is made from something like CMOS, then it should be
possible to hang on to the time for days.

A "ticking" clock will consume far more current than simply storing data. A
capacitor won't do for that, it does require a battery.

But frankly, in the UK this is all a bit moot. Power failures are
rare, and they don't last very long when they happen. I have a few
clock radios that should have batteries. Over the years the batteries
have all run down and I haven't bothered replacing them, very
occasional clock resetting is far less bother.

I agree 100% with that. My experience is that clock-radios run their
batteries down quite quickly once the mains is disconnected, and those
batteries are expensive to replace. I don't bother to replace them either.

David.

David Looser wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote

Flash memory is good, but not terribly useful for keeping a clock
ticking.

True, but for keeping tuning presets flash seems to be the obvious choice.
Why so many radios use volatile RAM for this is a mystery to me.

You really do need a battery or capacitor. If this part of
the circuit is made from something like CMOS, then it should be
possible to hang on to the time for days.

A "ticking" clock will consume far more current than simply storing data. A
capacitor won't do for that, it does require a battery.

But frankly, in the UK this is all a bit moot. Power failures are
rare, and they don't last very long when they happen. I have a few
clock radios that should have batteries. Over the years the batteries
have all run down and I haven't bothered replacing them, very
occasional clock resetting is far less bother.

I agree 100% with that. My experience is that clock-radios run their
batteries down quite quickly once the mains is disconnected, and those
batteries are expensive to replace. I don't bother to replace them either.

And if you fit a rechargeable battery it's usually run down through
self-discharge by the time it's needed !

Graham

Laurence Payne wrote:
Probably a simple capacitor. Perfectly standard practice in such
appliances as TV sets and video recorders, ensuring that program data
was not lost if mains power was briefly interrupted.

Thanks a lot, guys. So it sounds like I can count on at least a few
minutes' worth of backup, or maybe even as much as five hours. Hope
it's more towards the latter. We're in south west Shropshire, almost on
the Welsh border, very rural, very isolated - occasional power
failures, poor mobile phone coverage, no digital TV or radio, weak
analogue TV . . . but amazing BBC FM Radio 1, 2, 3, & 4, for some
reason. Hence, the love affair with the
http://www.comet.co.uk/comet/dyn_img...rge/330647.jpg

:-)

Eddy.