DACs
 

I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Rob

DACs
 

Rob wrote:

I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.

Most onboard 'computer audio' is distinctly second rate AT BEST.


So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Massive overkill.

Since you've boxed yourself into a situation by buying a Mac, there's little
you can do about it though. PC owners OTOH have a vast variety of options
open to them.

Graham

DACs
 

"Rob" wrote in message
...
I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all it
might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather dull, at
least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Rob

Looks like it contains a fair amount of snake oil:-
Virtual DC: An inexpensive No Noise solution
The Beresford Virtual DC represents a radical departure from both
traditional power supplies and low noise designs. It comprises of:

1.. A 1st stage mains rectification, regulation, and filtering adapter
that is able to operate between 100VAC to 260VAC and is plugged directly
into the mains socket.
What we in the trade would call a plugpack.
1.. A 2nd stage DC storage tank and reverse voltage protection circuit.
This prevents any incoming DC of incorrect polarity shorting out the power
supply, or DC voltage from the storage tank flowing back into the external
1st stage. It also acts as a storage space for the DC power from the
external mains adapter, and rectifier of any AC noise. Just like a DC
battery cell, this DC storage tank is technically incapable of storing AC,
and that includes any AC ripple or noise.
Wow they put a diode in series with the DC in, who would have thought of
that, oh come to think of it, the portable TV set that I owned in the 70s
had a similar revolutionary component. DC storage tank, I wonder what that
could be, a big capacitor or capacitors perhaps?
1.. The DC storage tank then distributes its content to different digital
and analogue DC regulator circuits. These isolate further any chances of
regulator induced noise being fed back to other parts of the power supply
chain. Each digital and analogue regulator is in charge of just one DC
level. There are 5 DC levels in the TC-7510.
5 regulators - the fools they will go broke with reckless spending like
that.
This propriety DC supply and noise cancelling system gives the Beresford
Virtual DC power supply industry leading performance, without using
expensive custom made components.

I wonder if they have applied for patents for this revolutionary system.

Keith

DACs
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:31:23 +0000, Rob
wrote:

I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

There's USB and Firewire on those boxes, isn't there? This opens up a
wide choice of audio interfaces. I don't think there's any reason
they won't work on the Mini?

DACs
 

Eeyore wrote:

Rob wrote:

I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.

Most onboard 'computer audio' is distinctly second rate AT BEST.


So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Massive overkill.

Since you've boxed yourself into a situation by buying a Mac, there's little
you can do about it though. PC owners OTOH have a vast variety of options
open to them.

Graham


Ah, OK. So it's intrinsically flawed? My only option is to buy a PC? I
had thought 'digital is digital' ...

Rob

DACs
 

keithr wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
...
I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all it
might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather dull, at
least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Rob

Looks like it contains a fair amount of snake oil:-
Virtual DC: An inexpensive No Noise solution
The Beresford Virtual DC represents a radical departure from both
traditional power supplies and low noise designs. It comprises of:

1.. A 1st stage mains rectification, regulation, and filtering adapter
that is able to operate between 100VAC to 260VAC and is plugged directly
into the mains socket.
What we in the trade would call a plugpack.
1.. A 2nd stage DC storage tank and reverse voltage protection circuit.
This prevents any incoming DC of incorrect polarity shorting out the power
supply, or DC voltage from the storage tank flowing back into the external
1st stage. It also acts as a storage space for the DC power from the
external mains adapter, and rectifier of any AC noise. Just like a DC
battery cell, this DC storage tank is technically incapable of storing AC,
and that includes any AC ripple or noise.
Wow they put a diode in series with the DC in, who would have thought of
that, oh come to think of it, the portable TV set that I owned in the 70s
had a similar revolutionary component. DC storage tank, I wonder what that
could be, a big capacitor or capacitors perhaps?
1.. The DC storage tank then distributes its content to different digital
and analogue DC regulator circuits. These isolate further any chances of
regulator induced noise being fed back to other parts of the power supply
chain. Each digital and analogue regulator is in charge of just one DC
level. There are 5 DC levels in the TC-7510.
5 regulators - the fools they will go broke with reckless spending like
that.
This propriety DC supply and noise cancelling system gives the Beresford
Virtual DC power supply industry leading performance, without using
expensive custom made components.

I wonder if they have applied for patents for this revolutionary system.

Keith



:-)

OK - get the point - it's nothing special. But do you think it'd do the
job? I like the idea of the selectable I/O, and when all's said and done
it just converts digital to analogue for 100UKP. Is it fundamentally
wrong in any way?

Rob

DACs
 

MiNe 109 wrote:
In article ,
Eeyore wrote:

Rob wrote:

I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.
Most onboard 'computer audio' is distinctly second rate AT BEST.


So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?
Massive overkill.

Shipped with a US power supply it's under $200!

Since you've boxed yourself into a situation by buying a Mac, there's little
you can do about it though. PC owners OTOH have a vast variety of options
open to them.

The Mini has a toslink digital output as well as USB and Firewire. There
are plenty of so-called "external sound cards".

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Sound_Cards_5220759_4-external

Stephen

Yes, thanks, I'd seen similar and I gather M-audio's Mac drivers work.
I've had mixed results from USB on a PC, however, and firewire bumps up
the cost and lacks the versatility of the Beresford. Really, I'm not
sure that an external soundcard is quite as capable as a direct digital
link - hence the question!

Rob

DACs
 

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:31:23 +0000, Rob
wrote:

I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

There's USB and Firewire on those boxes, isn't there? This opens up a
wide choice of audio interfaces. I don't think there's any reason
they won't work on the Mini?

Indeed - although I gather the quality of the drivers is a factor, and
that's before the quality of the DAC is factored in. TBH the technical
basis of any decision is utterly confusing!

Rob

DACs
 

Rob wrote:


:-)

OK - get the point - it's nothing special. But do you think it'd do the
job? I like the idea of the selectable I/O, and when all's said and done
it just converts digital to analogue for 100UKP. Is it fundamentally
wrong in any way?

Rob

I have one, its fine, only SP/DIF and TosLink in though, no USB or
Firewire. headphone output is usefull as well. the DAC is a PCM1716E.

the sound it makes is as good as most CDP's you will buy now (ie, it
sounds the same).

I would get a better power supply for it though, not for any audiophile
reasons, just I can hear the switcher whistle, and it also causes some
breakthrough in the output. A better 12v switcher fixes both problems.

--
Nick

DACs
 

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:11:25 +0000, Rob
wrote:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

There's USB and Firewire on those boxes, isn't there? This opens up a
wide choice of audio interfaces. I don't think there's any reason
they won't work on the Mini?

Indeed - although I gather the quality of the drivers is a factor, and
that's before the quality of the DAC is factored in. TBH the technical
basis of any decision is utterly confusing!

"The Beresford TC-7510 is now in its MK-6 form, and is an
uncomplicated Digital to Analogue Converter with design features
offering the ideal solution for the modern day high technology hi-fi
or multi-media environment. Whether it is audio improvements from your
CD or DVD, or your satellite, cable box, DVB-T (Freeviiew), PC, MAC:
as long as they have an optical or digital coax output, the TC-7510
will transform your listening pleasures beyound believe.

In sonic terms, the TC-7510 represents a revelation of previously
undiscovered instruments and vocal nuances, reproducing every note in
great detail. It displays increased air and sparkle that gives the
sound a more vibrant character, producing a very accurate and
realistic 3D focus. Greater audio resolution along with improved
definition bring to life previously undiscovered secrets embedded in
the original recording.

Everything in every region sounds significantly more detailed and, at
the same time, more relaxed and lifelike. Live music flows on the
TC-7510 with a realistic sense of linearity, tonality and energy. The
virtual stage is gone and replaced with a real atmosphere.

The TC-7510 is certainly true to the recording, but it is more true to
the music's essence. with increased image and body. The treble sounds
more luminous and brilliant, and the midrange to the bass firmer and
more resolute."

This is audiophile snake-oil talk. It doesn't actually GUARANTEE the
product is crap.... :-)

DACs
 

Rob wrote:

I had thought 'digital is digital' ...

What you listen to is *analogue*. At least until humans grow digital audio
connectors on their necks.

Converting one to the other is a distinct source of potential problems.

Graham

DACs
 

"Rob" wrote in message
...
keithr wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
...
I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Rob

Looks like it contains a fair amount of snake oil:-
Virtual DC: An inexpensive No Noise solution
The Beresford Virtual DC represents a radical departure from both
traditional power supplies and low noise designs. It comprises of:

1.. A 1st stage mains rectification, regulation, and filtering adapter
that is able to operate between 100VAC to 260VAC and is plugged directly
into the mains socket.
What we in the trade would call a plugpack.
1.. A 2nd stage DC storage tank and reverse voltage protection circuit.
This prevents any incoming DC of incorrect polarity shorting out the
power supply, or DC voltage from the storage tank flowing back into the
external 1st stage. It also acts as a storage space for the DC power from
the external mains adapter, and rectifier of any AC noise. Just like a DC
battery cell, this DC storage tank is technically incapable of storing
AC, and that includes any AC ripple or noise.
Wow they put a diode in series with the DC in, who would have thought of
that, oh come to think of it, the portable TV set that I owned in the 70s
had a similar revolutionary component. DC storage tank, I wonder what
that could be, a big capacitor or capacitors perhaps?
1.. The DC storage tank then distributes its content to different
digital and analogue DC regulator circuits. These isolate further any
chances of regulator induced noise being fed back to other parts of the
power supply chain. Each digital and analogue regulator is in charge of
just one DC level. There are 5 DC levels in the TC-7510.
5 regulators - the fools they will go broke with reckless spending like
that.
This propriety DC supply and noise cancelling system gives the Beresford
Virtual DC power supply industry leading performance, without using
expensive custom made components.

I wonder if they have applied for patents for this revolutionary system.

Keith



:-)

OK - get the point - it's nothing special. But do you think it'd do the
job? I like the idea of the selectable I/O, and when all's said and done
it just converts digital to analogue for 100UKP. Is it fundamentally wrong
in any way?

Rob

Listen to one, in the end it is the only real test.

Keith

DACs
 

Rob wrote:
I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Rob

Have a look at http://www.avihifi.co.uk/avid/avid.html for a little item
on using the Mac Mini. OK it's written in marketing speak as it's
selling AVI's speakers (which WILL of course be excellent)but there is a
link to a PDF article at the bottom of the page. In this, the writer
says he used the optical out on the Mac in order to be able to use his
external DAC.

I have a Mac iBook which has Firewire and USB connections but no optical
out. Years ago I bought an Edirol USB DAC (for use with a PC before I
saw the light)and that works fine. A mate of mine got the current
version of the same thing (Edirol UA-1EX) which offers in/out for forty
odd quid and seems to do a decent job.

For recording I have an M-Audio Firewire 410 but that would be overkill
for your requirements (phantom power, low latency monitoring and all
those goodies).

As for Mac v. PC, each has pros and cons. Gamers tend not to go for
macs. I support PCs for a living and use mac at home.

Roy.

DACs
 

"Rob" wrote in message

I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my
Mac Mini is all it might be - the sound, while not
unpleasant, appears to be rather dull, at least compared
to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does
appear the sky's the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html


I love the detailed specifications. ;-)

DACs
 

Eeyore wrote:

Rob wrote:

I had thought 'digital is digital' ...

What you listen to is *analogue*. At least until humans grow digital audio
connectors on their necks.

Converting one to the other is a distinct source of potential problems.


Very good! The Mac Mini has a digital out connection.

Rob

DACs
 

keithr wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
...
keithr wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
...
I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Rob
Looks like it contains a fair amount of snake oil:-
Virtual DC: An inexpensive No Noise solution
The Beresford Virtual DC represents a radical departure from both
traditional power supplies and low noise designs. It comprises of:

1.. A 1st stage mains rectification, regulation, and filtering adapter
that is able to operate between 100VAC to 260VAC and is plugged directly
into the mains socket.
What we in the trade would call a plugpack.
1.. A 2nd stage DC storage tank and reverse voltage protection circuit.
This prevents any incoming DC of incorrect polarity shorting out the
power supply, or DC voltage from the storage tank flowing back into the
external 1st stage. It also acts as a storage space for the DC power from
the external mains adapter, and rectifier of any AC noise. Just like a DC
battery cell, this DC storage tank is technically incapable of storing
AC, and that includes any AC ripple or noise.
Wow they put a diode in series with the DC in, who would have thought of
that, oh come to think of it, the portable TV set that I owned in the 70s
had a similar revolutionary component. DC storage tank, I wonder what
that could be, a big capacitor or capacitors perhaps?
1.. The DC storage tank then distributes its content to different
digital and analogue DC regulator circuits. These isolate further any
chances of regulator induced noise being fed back to other parts of the
power supply chain. Each digital and analogue regulator is in charge of
just one DC level. There are 5 DC levels in the TC-7510.
5 regulators - the fools they will go broke with reckless spending like
that.
This propriety DC supply and noise cancelling system gives the Beresford
Virtual DC power supply industry leading performance, without using
expensive custom made components.

I wonder if they have applied for patents for this revolutionary system.

Keith


:-)

OK - get the point - it's nothing special. But do you think it'd do the
job? I like the idea of the selectable I/O, and when all's said and done
it just converts digital to analogue for 100UKP. Is it fundamentally wrong
in any way?

Rob

Listen to one, in the end it is the only real test.


Yes, granted. Just posted in the feint hope of guidance.

rob

DACs
 

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:11:25 +0000, Rob
wrote:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?
There's USB and Firewire on those boxes, isn't there? This opens up a
wide choice of audio interfaces. I don't think there's any reason
they won't work on the Mini?
Indeed - although I gather the quality of the drivers is a factor, and
that's before the quality of the DAC is factored in. TBH the technical
basis of any decision is utterly confusing!

"The Beresford TC-7510 is now in its MK-6 form, and is an
uncomplicated Digital to Analogue Converter with design features
offering the ideal solution for the modern day high technology hi-fi
or multi-media environment. Whether it is audio improvements from your
CD or DVD, or your satellite, cable box, DVB-T (Freeviiew), PC, MAC:
as long as they have an optical or digital coax output, the TC-7510
will transform your listening pleasures beyound believe.

In sonic terms, the TC-7510 represents a revelation of previously
undiscovered instruments and vocal nuances, reproducing every note in
great detail. It displays increased air and sparkle that gives the
sound a more vibrant character, producing a very accurate and
realistic 3D focus. Greater audio resolution along with improved
definition bring to life previously undiscovered secrets embedded in
the original recording.

Everything in every region sounds significantly more detailed and, at
the same time, more relaxed and lifelike. Live music flows on the
TC-7510 with a realistic sense of linearity, tonality and energy. The
virtual stage is gone and replaced with a real atmosphere.

The TC-7510 is certainly true to the recording, but it is more true to
the music's essence. with increased image and body. The treble sounds
more luminous and brilliant, and the midrange to the bass firmer and
more resolute."

This is audiophile snake-oil talk. It doesn't actually GUARANTEE the
product is crap.... :-)



Indeed! I understand the adjectives, that's about it :-)

DACs
 

Roy wrote:
Rob wrote:
I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is
all it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be
rather dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed
the optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the
sky's the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Rob

Have a look at http://www.avihifi.co.uk/avid/avid.html for a little item
on using the Mac Mini. OK it's written in marketing speak as it's
selling AVI's speakers (which WILL of course be excellent)but there is a
link to a PDF article at the bottom of the page. In this, the writer
says he used the optical out on the Mac in order to be able to use his
external DAC.


Interesting - it's what i've been doing for a while with excellent
results. I can't detect a qualitative difference between the Mini/AV DAC
and a CD player. He seems to be saying he used the Mac DAC at the end
which resulted in a (ahem) more organic sound. Not my experience.

I have a Mac iBook which has Firewire and USB connections but no optical
out. Years ago I bought an Edirol USB DAC (for use with a PC before I
saw the light)and that works fine. A mate of mine got the current
version of the same thing (Edirol UA-1EX) which offers in/out for forty
odd quid and seems to do a decent job.


That looks to be just the job, thanks very much. We use Edirol stuff at
work and while the build appears shoddy the sound quality is astounding.

For recording I have an M-Audio Firewire 410 but that would be overkill
for your requirements (phantom power, low latency monitoring and all
those goodies).


Quite, i don't need all that - and I like the idea of bus power.

As for Mac v. PC, each has pros and cons. Gamers tend not to go for
macs. I support PCs for a living and use mac at home.


It's all horses/courses; I've been using a Mac for a few years now and
have never looked back.

Thanks for the input.

Rob

DACs
 

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:31:23 +0000, Rob wrote:

I'm not convinced that the DAC/analogue amplifier in my Mac Mini is all
it might be - the sound, while not unpleasant, appears to be rather
dull, at least compared to the DAC of an AV amplifier when fed the
optical output.

So, I'm thinking of a DAC to improve the sound. It does appear the sky's
the limit, but this caught my eye:

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/TC-7510/about.html

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Rob



My brother has one and is quite pleased with it. The manufacturer seems
to give quite good support too. It's a nice looking piece of kit and
sounds ok to my aged ears. Sorry, but I don't have the DAC listening
experience to be able to tell you if it is better or worse than a mac!

--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info http://mixpix.batcave.net

DACs
 

Rob wrote:

OK - get the point - it's nothing special. But do you think it'd do
the job? I like the idea of the selectable I/O, and when all's said
and done it just converts digital to analogue for 100UKP. Is it
fundamentally wrong in any way?

You could get a Meridian 203 for that.


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.