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'European sound tuned'....??
I posted a request for amp recommendations recently (post since deleted, so
I can't append), but don't bother now, I have grabbed a nice little Denon PMA-510 from the local shop - which should do what I want without too much fuss (heat). Waiting for it to be delivered as I speak - I wuz on me 'bike and there's a 120" projection screen also, anyway! Anyway, I know nothing about them and thought I have a search on the 'net to see what is being said about them and found this (not the store I'm buying from): http://www.weymouthhifi.co.uk/websit...20pma510ae.htm 'European sound tuned'....??? What's that all about then? Don't tell me it's not going to be as blamelessly *neutral* as the SS Brigade would have us believe....?? :-) |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Keith G" wrote in message ... I posted a request for amp recommendations recently (post since deleted, so I can't append), but don't bother now, I have grabbed a nice little Denon PMA-510 from the local shop - which should do what I want without too much fuss (heat). Waiting for it to be delivered as I speak - I wuz on me 'bike and there's a 120" projection screen also, anyway! Anyway, I know nothing about them and thought I have a search on the 'net to see what is being said about them and found this (not the store I'm buying from): http://www.weymouthhifi.co.uk/websit...20pma510ae.htm 'European sound tuned'....??? What's that all about then? Don't tell me it's not going to be as blamelessly *neutral* as the SS Brigade would have us believe....?? :-) Keith, it's called Marketing...on the US ones it has "American sound tuned" on them, on the Japanese ones it has "Japanese sound tuned", on the ................. Would love to be proved wrong, and there really is a difference. S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote in message ... I posted a request for amp recommendations recently (post since deleted, so I can't append), but don't bother now, I have grabbed a nice little Denon PMA-510 from the local shop - which should do what I want without too much fuss (heat). Waiting for it to be delivered as I speak - I wuz on me 'bike and there's a 120" projection screen also, anyway! Anyway, I know nothing about them and thought I have a search on the 'net to see what is being said about them and found this (not the store I'm buying from): http://www.weymouthhifi.co.uk/websit...20pma510ae.htm 'European sound tuned'....??? What's that all about then? Don't tell me it's not going to be as blamelessly *neutral* as the SS Brigade would have us believe....?? :-) Keith, it's called Marketing...on the US ones it has "American sound tuned" on them, on the Japanese ones it has "Japanese sound tuned", on the ................ Would love to be proved wrong, and there really is a difference. OK. So far, so good - works for me! :-) What about 'New Refined Sound Quality' then? http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/DenonPMA-510AE.jpg Kinda implies that the older, similarly-priced model (PMA-500 I guess) had a *lesser* sound quality, does it not? (Can you see where I'm going with this? ;-) |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Keith G" wrote in message
I posted a request for amp recommendations recently (post since deleted, so I can't append), but don't bother now, I have grabbed a nice little Denon PMA-510 from the local shop - which should do what I want without too much fuss (heat). Waiting for it to be delivered as I speak - I wuz on me 'bike and there's a 120" projection screen also, anyway! 200 pounds seems like a lot for a ca. 45 wpc integrated amp. Heck, I just lately paid $80 for a 110 wpc Sony receiver, factory sealed, authorized dealer, and full warranty. Anyway, I know nothing about them and thought I have a search on the 'net to see what is being said about them and found this (not the store I'm buying from): http://www.weymouthhifi.co.uk/websit...20pma510ae.htm 'European sound tuned'....??? What's that all about then? Marketing. May be hard to explain to someone is still all in a twitter because they thought that "Perfect sound forever" meant that no CD player ever built would wear out or otherwise become broken. ;-) |
'European sound tuned'....??
Serge Auckland wrote:
Keith, it's called Marketing...on the US ones it has "American sound tuned" on them, on the Japanese ones it has "Japanese sound tuned", on the ................ Would love to be proved wrong, and there really is a difference. Addition of European required RF immunity components, and so special tuning required to avoid the detrimental sound effects of? In days of old, Japanese products sold here had the speakers supplied by an English manufacturer - stated reason then was the difference in the type of music played east and west with regard to tonal range, and the jap speakers not being suitable? -- Adrian C |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Adrian C" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: Keith, it's called Marketing...on the US ones it has "American sound tuned" on them, on the Japanese ones it has "Japanese sound tuned", on the ................ Would love to be proved wrong, and there really is a difference. Addition of European required RF immunity components, and so special tuning required to avoid the detrimental sound effects of? In days of old, Japanese products sold here had the speakers supplied by an English manufacturer - stated reason then was the difference in the type of music played east and west with regard to tonal range, and the jap speakers not being suitable? Other reasons were the odd and complicated trading restrictions placed on various imports after the war until way into the 60s and 70s (I believe) and also that shipping relatively low value/high volume (in the dimensional sense) halfway round the world wasn't too peachy in the days before modern, container shipping. In the same vein - there were a great number of 'high end' models of 'hifi equipmen' from the various Jap manufactureres that never found their way into Brit shops back then. If you knew of and wanted a top of the range amplifier/tape deck/whatever you had to get it from someone on one of the many Yank airbases here in East Anglia! (It's not for nowt the local 'hifi' shop which I wuz in today for the first time in a couple of years and which was founded back in those days is called AN Audio - 'Anglo Nippon Audio!! ;-) |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Adrian C" wrote in message
... Serge Auckland wrote: Keith, it's called Marketing...on the US ones it has "American sound tuned" on them, on the Japanese ones it has "Japanese sound tuned", on the ................ Would love to be proved wrong, and there really is a difference. Addition of European required RF immunity components, and so special tuning required to avoid the detrimental sound effects of? In days of old, Japanese products sold here had the speakers supplied by an English manufacturer - stated reason then was the difference in the type of music played east and west with regard to tonal range, and the jap speakers not being suitable? Which makes a bit of a nonsense that one of the best monitor speakers ever made - the Yamaha NS1000 - was made in Japan and imported complete! For anyone who has the 'honour' of comparing British and Euro-fi the most noticable thing I find is that we Brits like our bass. One note bass it might have been but nonetheless if it boomed it sold. Euro-fi tended (and still does to some extent) to veer towards perceived clarity and stereo staging with much less weight to the bass volume. Perhaps they go to more live concerts in Europe that we thick Brits so know what an orchestra/organ/choir/jazz group/singer really sound like, rather than how we think we would like them to sound. Observation: Bose kit with its well known one-note bass sells well over here despite being vastly over priced. You have to go digging to find it in Germany. I rest my case M'Lud. -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Woody" wrote in message ... "Adrian C" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: Keith, it's called Marketing...on the US ones it has "American sound tuned" on them, on the Japanese ones it has "Japanese sound tuned", on the ................ Would love to be proved wrong, and there really is a difference. Addition of European required RF immunity components, and so special tuning required to avoid the detrimental sound effects of? In days of old, Japanese products sold here had the speakers supplied by an English manufacturer - stated reason then was the difference in the type of music played east and west with regard to tonal range, and the jap speakers not being suitable? Which makes a bit of a nonsense that one of the best monitor speakers ever made - the Yamaha NS1000 - was made in Japan and imported complete! For anyone who has the 'honour' of comparing British and Euro-fi the most noticable thing I find is that we Brits like our bass. Especially in little, hatchback cars.... One note bass it might have been but nonetheless if it boomed it sold. Still does. Euro-fi tended (and still does to some extent) to veer towards perceived clarity and stereo staging with much less weight to the bass volume. Enter the 'firewood horns' to save the day - note most modern designs are from Europeans, most notably Germans.... Perhaps they go to more live concerts in Europe that we thick Brits so know what an orchestra/organ/choir/jazz group/singer really sound like, rather than how we think we would like them to sound. There is more BS talked about concerts here than anything else - the one thing you can't get (indoors or out) is a heavy, palpable bass at any distance from the source, so why choose speakers that produce it...?? Observation: Bose kit with its well known one-note bass sells well over here despite being vastly over priced. You have to go digging to find it in Germany. I rest my case M'Lud. Well said - I'd buy that (well, most of it) for a dollar! Stupid, thick, blurry *pistonic* bass may well keep the Chavs happy, but it has no place in a decent 'audio system' in my book! |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Keith G" wrote in message
... "Woody" wrote in message ... "Adrian C" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: Keith, it's called Marketing...on the US ones it has "American sound tuned" on them, on the Japanese ones it has "Japanese sound tuned", on the ................ Would love to be proved wrong, and there really is a difference. Addition of European required RF immunity components, and so special tuning required to avoid the detrimental sound effects of? In days of old, Japanese products sold here had the speakers supplied by an English manufacturer - stated reason then was the difference in the type of music played east and west with regard to tonal range, and the jap speakers not being suitable? Which makes a bit of a nonsense that one of the best monitor speakers ever made - the Yamaha NS1000 - was made in Japan and imported complete! For anyone who has the 'honour' of comparing British and Euro-fi the most noticable thing I find is that we Brits like our bass. Especially in little, hatchback cars.... One note bass it might have been but nonetheless if it boomed it sold. Still does. Euro-fi tended (and still does to some extent) to veer towards perceived clarity and stereo staging with much less weight to the bass volume. Enter the 'firewood horns' to save the day - note most modern designs are from Europeans, most notably Germans.... Perhaps they go to more live concerts in Europe that we thick Brits so know what an orchestra/organ/choir/jazz group/singer really sound like, rather than how we think we would like them to sound. There is more BS talked about concerts here than anything else - the one thing you can't get (indoors or out) is a heavy, palpable bass at any distance from the source, so why choose speakers that produce it...?? Observation: Bose kit with its well known one-note bass sells well over here despite being vastly over priced. You have to go digging to find it in Germany. I rest my case M'Lud. Well said - I'd buy that (well, most of it) for a dollar! Stupid, thick, blurry *pistonic* bass may well keep the Chavs happy, but it has no place in a decent 'audio system' in my book! Wah-hey! Support for once. There is one 'application' where good bass is worthwhile and where it does carry - (pipe) organ music. Until the decision was made some years ago that they were 'too big now' we used to have a pair of home built transmission line speakers on the Dr. Arthur Bailey design published in Wireless World in 1972 - the nearest commercial equivalent was the IMF TLS80. Line up was KEF B139 and B110 with (in my case) T27 although the original design was for the (then no longer obtainable) T15. They had an ease of listening that was beguiling albeit at the expense of stereo staging. The place where their bass ability really showed up was on pipe organ pedals. I had a sampler disc - I think it might have been Denon - which had a recording of Bach played on the organ of Limburg cathedral. There was one sequence where there was a descending scale played on pedal woods couple to pedal reeds; you could hear every note - clearly - all the way down without resonance, 'bloom,' or rattle - it was fantastic. For a short while I had a borrowed pair of Cambridge R50's which used the same drive units in a transmission line-ish structure - they are the only other speakers that I have ever heard that could reproduce that cadence with the same detail. My speakers since then have been Spendor BC1's and (now) KEF Q5 (or is it Q55?) and neither have that ability to produce the depth+clarity+'musicality' of the TL. :-(( -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Woody" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote Stupid, thick, blurry *pistonic* bass may well keep the Chavs happy, but it has no place in a decent 'audio system' in my book! Wah-hey! Support for once. Well. there's more - see below! There is one 'application' where good bass is worthwhile and where it does carry - (pipe) organ music. Yes, that was on my mind when I made my reply but I feel it's a case of more attempting to replicate the 'acoustic' than simply play the notes - IOW, you can listed to Bach's T&F on a Roberts radio and enjoy it! Until the decision was made some years ago that they were 'too big now' we used to have a pair of home built transmission line speakers on the Dr. Arthur Bailey design published in Wireless World in 1972 - the nearest commercial equivalent was the IMF TLS80. Line up was KEF B139 and B110 with (in my case) T27 although the original design was for the (then no longer obtainable) T15. They had an ease of listening that was beguiling albeit at the expense of stereo staging. You mean like the ones I had - in this pic: http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/IMFandothers.JPG :-) The place where their bass ability really showed up was on pipe organ pedals. I had a sampler disc - I think it might have been Denon - which had a recording of Bach played on the organ of Limburg cathedral. There was one sequence where there was a descending scale played on pedal woods couple to pedal reeds; you could hear every note - clearly - all the way down without resonance, 'bloom,' or rattle - it was fantastic. For a short while I had a borrowed pair of Cambridge R50's which used the same drive units in a transmission line-ish structure - they are the only other speakers that I have ever heard that could reproduce that cadence with the same detail. You say 'at the expense of imaging' - I was always quite impressed with the imaging, expecially for a cabinet so big. Nothing like the Fidelios in the same pic though. My speakers since then have been Spendor BC1's and (now) KEF Q5 (or is it Q55?) and neither have that ability to produce the depth+clarity+'musicality' of the TL. :-(( Your 'beguiling' is a good descriptive - they were an absolute delight at low, 'past midnight' levels I remember which made it difficult to shut the system down sometimes! (I'm sure I said that here, at the time!) That pic is an interesting one - it shows some of the stuff I still have which are keepers and some which has been passed along: Keepers: 2A3 SET in the rack, replinthed Lencos, Jericho speakers with PM6C Lowthers. Gone: Technics power amp (and the matching control amp), IMFs, Chinese 300B SET (on the speaker). - that was when I was *trying stuff for myself* and exploring possibilities rather than yapping about stuff I had only read about or going on hearsay from others.... |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Keith G" wrote in message ... "Woody" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote Stupid, thick, blurry *pistonic* bass may well keep the Chavs happy, but it has no place in a decent 'audio system' in my book! Wah-hey! Support for once. Well. there's more - see below! There is one 'application' where good bass is worthwhile and where it does carry - (pipe) organ music. Yes, that was on my mind when I made my reply but I feel it's a case of more attempting to replicate the 'acoustic' than simply play the notes - IOW, you can listed to Bach's T&F on a Roberts radio and enjoy it! Listed? Fekkin' fingers do just what they want these days.... |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Keith G" wrote in message
... "Woody" wrote in message ... "Keith G" wrote Stupid, thick, blurry *pistonic* bass may well keep the Chavs happy, but it has no place in a decent 'audio system' in my book! Wah-hey! Support for once. Well. there's more - see below! There is one 'application' where good bass is worthwhile and where it does carry - (pipe) organ music. Yes, that was on my mind when I made my reply but I feel it's a case of more attempting to replicate the 'acoustic' than simply play the notes - IOW, you can listed to Bach's T&F on a Roberts radio and enjoy it! Until the decision was made some years ago that they were 'too big now' we used to have a pair of home built transmission line speakers on the Dr. Arthur Bailey design published in Wireless World in 1972 - the nearest commercial equivalent was the IMF TLS80. Line up was KEF B139 and B110 with (in my case) T27 although the original design was for the (then no longer obtainable) T15. They had an ease of listening that was beguiling albeit at the expense of stereo staging. You mean like the ones I had - in this pic: http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/IMFandothers.JPG :-) The place where their bass ability really showed up was on pipe organ pedals. I had a sampler disc - I think it might have been Denon - which had a recording of Bach played on the organ of Limburg cathedral. There was one sequence where there was a descending scale played on pedal woods couple to pedal reeds; you could hear every note - clearly - all the way down without resonance, 'bloom,' or rattle - it was fantastic. For a short while I had a borrowed pair of Cambridge R50's which used the same drive units in a transmission line-ish structure - they are the only other speakers that I have ever heard that could reproduce that cadence with the same detail. You say 'at the expense of imaging' - I was always quite impressed with the imaging, expecially for a cabinet so big. Nothing like the Fidelios in the same pic though. My speakers since then have been Spendor BC1's and (now) KEF Q5 (or is it Q55?) and neither have that ability to produce the depth+clarity+'musicality' of the TL. :-(( Your 'beguiling' is a good descriptive - they were an absolute delight at low, 'past midnight' levels I remember which made it difficult to shut the system down sometimes! (I'm sure I said that here, at the time!) That pic is an interesting one - it shows some of the stuff I still have which are keepers and some which has been passed along: Keepers: 2A3 SET in the rack, replinthed Lencos, Jericho speakers with PM6C Lowthers. Gone: Technics power amp (and the matching control amp), IMFs, Chinese 300B SET (on the speaker). - that was when I was *trying stuff for myself* and exploring possibilities rather than yapping about stuff I had only read about or going on hearsay from others.... Mine were very like those - including the Coles 4001 supertweeter that I added to the originals. (A friend built thme but when he got married and moved into a small terraced house there was no room for them. I paid £50 but the drive units at that time were worth £130 so I don't think I did too badly?) -- Woody harrogate three at ntlworld dot com |
'European sound tuned'....??
Keith G wrote:
I posted a request for amp recommendations recently (post since deleted, so I can't append), but don't bother now, I have grabbed a nice little Denon PMA-510 from the local shop - which should do what I want without too much fuss (heat). Waiting for it to be delivered as I speak - I wuz on me 'bike and there's a 120" projection screen also, anyway! Anyway, I know nothing about them and thought I have a search on the 'net to see what is being said about them and found this (not the store I'm buying from): http://www.weymouthhifi.co.uk/websit...20pma510ae.htm 'European sound tuned'....??? What's that all about then? Don't tell me it's not going to be as blamelessly *neutral* as the SS Brigade would have us believe....?? :-) The justification for this that I remember reading was that US living rooms are bigger than UK ones and they tend to have concrete floors rather than wood. They wouldn't just make this sort of thing up, would they? |
'European sound tuned'....??
"Roger Thorpe" wrote in message ... Keith G wrote: http://www.weymouthhifi.co.uk/websit...20pma510ae.htm 'European sound tuned'....??? What's that all about then? The justification for this that I remember reading was that US living rooms are bigger than UK ones and they tend to have concrete floors rather than wood. They wouldn't just make this sort of thing up, would they? No, I'm sure they haven't - it sounds perfectly fine, if a little *Belgian*.... ?? |
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