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Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
"Eiron" wrote in message ... Phil Allison wrote: "Eiron" What's the length 'Bout an inch.... and thickness of your single strand of wire? Real tiny - less than a mm? Must read the thread more closely. Didn't see the photo. You've added at least 10 milliohms to one speaker cable. ** Not even that much. Say the strand is 0.5mm dia and 25 mm long copper. Works out at only 2.2 milliohms. Take over 20 amps to make it glow and melt. The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand 2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice coil would probably blow first. The actual *facts* of the matter are that, no matter what the *figures* may or may not be, the single strand is still working perfectly well and will obviously sustain enough current to provide a 'heap plenty loud' (too loud) sound as I said earlier - not as Pucci prated: "By the pic such as it would melt very quickly with a decent amp into decent speakers at a reasonable level. Just like a fuse." IOW, yet another blistering example of where a little simple experimentation will demonstrate that most (if not all) clowns who consider themselves *experts* are usually anything but.... ;-) |
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"Rob" wrote in message om... Keith G wrote: OK, that's power leads all nicely sorted and we all know where we stand on them, don't we? As it's easier to make my point with them, let's do speaker cables now.... Take a squint at this: http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/Strand.jpg Nice photo! Thanks - nowt special, just a fairly satisfying grab in an awkward situation. All manual settings as follows, if you are interested: Shutter - 1/60 sec. Aperture - f16 Onboard flash - GN13 WB - Flash ISO - 100 Focus - about 6 inches (Micro-Nikkor) Right now I am listening to perfectly fine ('normal') sound from the radio on a *single strand* of copper wire - all the way up to heap plenty loud and down again! (Pucci's milkman isn't due here for ages so I asked Swim to comment on the sound without telling her what I was up to and, like me, she found nothing out of the ordinary!) In this situation, I wonder what 'science' would support the 'conventional wisdom' of using more than the one strand of wire - provided of course it don't break! Dunno :-) Me neither, but no wires at all would be the best solution - especially on an AV setup!! :-) |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eiron wrote: The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand 2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice coil would probably blow first. 0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms. Think Jim Lesurf did lots of research into speaker fusing when he was at Armstrong. There have been a number of people who have done interesting research into this sort of pack bonding/reassurance/submission behaviour with gerbils.... -- *Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together? * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: By the pic such as it would melt very quickly with a decent amp into decent speakers at a reasonable level. Just like a fuse. What a number of 'selective vision' types here don't seem to realise is that *trained chimps* like this **** think nothing of 'opening their mouths' and outpouring their (his/Pucci's) own uninformed and highly *inaccurate* personal prejudices and bigotry [snip] Kitty - get a life. And read up on very basic electrical stuff. It's not rocket science. Oh - what ever happened to your '****ter'? Can't stand being ignored? Interesting post this one - probably (almost certainly) without realising it, Pucci reveals all his fears and anxieties in one, quick go! LOL! -- *Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Keith G" The actual *facts* of the matter are that, no matter what the *figures* may or may not be, the single strand is still working perfectly well and will obviously sustain enough current to provide a 'heap plenty loud' (too loud) sound .... ** No one ever said otherwise. A 5 amp fuse fitted in series with a 8 ohm speaker is not be likely to *ever* blow in a domestic system. Change the speaker to 4 ohms and it may well blow at some time. Change the speakers to Quad ESL63s ( et alia ) and it will blow for SURE - if the internal voltage clamping circuitry ever activates. Some of us KNOW a few things about fuses. ****WIT !! ....... Phil |
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In article ,
Keith G wrote: The actual *facts* of the matter are that, no matter what the *figures* may or may not be, the single strand is still working perfectly well and will obviously sustain enough current to provide a 'heap plenty loud' (too loud) sound as I said earlier - not as Pucci prated: "By the pic such as it would melt very quickly with a decent amp into decent speakers at a reasonable level. Just like a fuse." IOW, yet another blistering example of where a little simple experimentation will demonstrate that most (if not all) clowns who consider themselves *experts* are usually anything but.... Only a egotist like you Kitty would assume *your* amp and speakers would fit *my* definition of decent. -- *If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Phil My Anushole" wrote in message ... "Keith G" The actual *facts* of the matter are that, no matter what the *figures* may or may not be, the single strand is still working perfectly well and will obviously sustain enough current to provide a 'heap plenty loud' (too loud) sound .... ** No one ever said otherwise. A 5 amp fuse fitted in series with a 8 ohm speaker is not be likely to *ever* blow in a domestic system. No one ever said otherwise. Change the speaker to 4 ohms and it may well blow at some time. No one ever said otherwise. Change the speakers to Quad ESL63s ( et alia ) and it will blow for URE - if the internal voltage clamping circuitry ever activates. No one ever said otherwise. Where does this silly crap end - swap the amp for an arc-welder and it'll burn the wire out or summat? Some of us KNOW a few things about fuses. Don't be a stupid ****.... ****WIT !! OK, have it yer own way - be a stupid **** then.... LOL!! |
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In article ,
Keith G wrote: Think Jim Lesurf did lots of research into speaker fusing when he was at Armstrong. There have been a number of people who have done interesting research into this sort of pack bonding/reassurance/submission behaviour with gerbils.... Why do you read this group when you've obviously no interest in audio matters? -- *A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Keith Git " The actual *facts* of the matter are that, no matter what the *figures* may or may not be, the single strand is still working perfectly well and will obviously sustain enough current to provide a 'heap plenty loud' (too loud) sound .... ** No one ever said otherwise. A 5 amp fuse fitted in series with a 8 ohm speaker is not be likely to *ever* blow in a domestic system. Change the speaker to 4 ohms and it may well blow at some time. No one ever said otherwise. ** Fraid you did above - ****HEAD !! Change the speakers to Quad ESL63s ( et alia ) and it will blow for RE - if the internal voltage clamping circuitry ever activates. No one ever said otherwise. ** Fraid you did above - ****HEAD !! Whether a single strand of copper wire survives in use DEPENDS on what impedance and type of speaker it is feeding plus the power capacity of the amplifier. Some of us KNOW a few things about fuses. You PIG IGNORANT ****HEAD !!!!!!!!!! ...... Phil |
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"Keith G" wrote Doesn't stop his silly yap about 'fuses', does it? (I wonder if he has ever tried to jump-start a lorry or a tractor? - Nah, I doubt it! ;-) It's becoming quite obvious *none* of these ****s have ever tried to jump start either one.... .....and seen the wires flash to red hot in a heartbeat! Now, what was that crap about 'fuses are tiny compared to the cables they protect'....??? |
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In article ,
Keith G wrote: Now, what was that crap about 'fuses are tiny compared to the cables they protect'....??? Kitty - go and do some basic reading about protecting wiring - or even just look at a fuse. Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. -- *Two many clicks spoil the browse * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Phil My Anus" wrote in message ... "Keith Git " The actual *facts* of the matter are that, no matter what the *figures* may or may not be, the single strand is still working perfectly well and will obviously sustain enough current to provide a 'heap plenty loud' (too loud) sound .... ** No one ever said otherwise. A 5 amp fuse fitted in series with a 8 ohm speaker is not be likely to *ever* blow in a domestic system. Change the speaker to 4 ohms and it may well blow at some time. No one ever said otherwise. ** Fraid you did above - ****HEAD !! Fraid I didn't - ****HEAD - read it again..... Change the speakers to Quad ESL63s ( et alia ) and it will blow for E - if the internal voltage clamping circuitry ever activates. No one ever said otherwise. ** Fraid you did above - ****HEAD !! Fraid I didn't - ****HEAD - read it again..... Whether a single strand of copper wire survives in use DEPENDS on what impedance and type of speaker it is feeding plus the power capacity of the amplifier. Stoopid ****ing retard - do you think you and Pucci are the only ones who know that? I run a couple of valve amps here - I've probably blown more fuses than you've had sane days... .....not to mention the sub-station in sarf London I knocked out when I was young and working on the 'buildins'.... Some of us KNOW a few things about fuses. Think you do, more like... snip the best bit of his post |
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In article ,
Keith G wrote: It's becoming quite obvious *none* of these ****s have ever tried to jump start either one.... ....and seen the wires flash to red hot in a heartbeat! So let's add in your lack of knowledge about cable sizes to that of fuses. -- *Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Now, what was that crap about 'fuses are tiny compared to the cables they protect'....??? Kitty - go and do some basic reading about protecting wiring - or even just look at a fuse. Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. Can't decide if this clown's deliberately evading the point or it's flying way over his head, as usual.... Explanation (if anyone cares): I reduce a wire to a single strand to demonstrate the 'science vs, conventional wisdom' predicament that was prompted (to me) by the OP and monkeyboi sees it a 'fuse' and hasn't stopped going on about fuses ever since! Desperate to get me to *talk* to him, I suspect! ;-) -- *Two many clicks spoil the browse * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: The actual *facts* of the matter are that, no matter what the *figures* may or may not be, the single strand is still working perfectly well and will obviously sustain enough current to provide a 'heap plenty loud' (too loud) sound as I said earlier - not as Pucci prated: "By the pic such as it would melt very quickly with a decent amp into decent speakers at a reasonable level. Just like a fuse." IOW, yet another blistering example of where a little simple experimentation will demonstrate that most (if not all) clowns who consider themselves *experts* are usually anything but.... Only a egotist like you Kitty would assume *your* amp and speakers would fit *my* definition of decent. More arrogant yap from one who *guesses* - he presumes (because he doesn't know) that my amp and speaker would not fit his twisted little definition. (Like it matters...!!??) -- *If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Keith Git = a TOTALLY PSYCHOTIC **** " The actual *facts* of the matter are that, no matter what the *figures* may or may not be, the single strand is still working perfectly well and will obviously sustain enough current to provide a 'heap plenty loud' (too loud) sound .... ** No one ever said otherwise. A 5 amp fuse fitted in series with a 8 ohm speaker is not be likely to *ever* blow in a domestic system. Change the speaker to 4 ohms and it may well blow at some time. No one ever said otherwise. ** Fraid you did above - ****HEAD !! Change the speakers to Quad ESL63s ( et alia ) and it will blow for E - if the internal voltage clamping circuitry ever activates. No one ever said otherwise. ** Fraid you did above - ****HEAD !! Whether a single strand of copper wire survives in use DEPENDS on what impedance and type of speaker it is feeding plus the power capacity of the amplifier. Some of us KNOW a few things about fuses. BTW: Ever figured out what that horrible burning smell that follows you about all the time is ??? ****WIT !!!! ...... Phil |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Think Jim Lesurf did lots of research into speaker fusing when he was at Armstrong. There have been a number of people who have done interesting research into this sort of pack bonding/reassurance/submission behaviour with gerbils.... Why do you read this group when you've obviously no interest in audio matters? What he means is: "Why do you read this group when you've obviously no interest in my microphone cable coiling career to date?" What I want to know is why this prat posts here in a general (enthusiasts) ng and, from what I can see of it, studiously avoids showing his pointy little head in the 'pro' and 'tech' groups...?? Too scared, I suspect and wants to be the 'big fish in a near empty little pond'.... -- *A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Phil Anushole" wrote in message ... "Keith Git = a TOTALLY PSYCHOTIC **** " One does what one can! ;-) snip garbage Ever figured out what that horrible burning smell that follows you about all the time is ??? Yes - Lambert & Butler.... :-) |
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"Keith Git = a TOTALLY PSYCHOTIC **** "
The actual *facts* of the matter are that, no matter what the *figures* may or may not be, the single strand is still working perfectly well and will obviously sustain enough current to provide a 'heap plenty loud' (too loud) sound .... ** No one ever said otherwise. A 5 amp fuse fitted in series with a 8 ohm speaker is not be likely to *ever* blow in a domestic system. Change the speaker to 4 ohms and it may well blow at some time. No one ever said otherwise. ** Fraid you did above - ****HEAD !! Change the speakers to Quad ESL63s ( et alia ) and it will blow for E - if the internal voltage clamping circuitry ever activates. No one ever said otherwise. ** Fraid you did above - ****HEAD !! Whether a single strand of copper wire survives in use DEPENDS on what impedance and type of speaker it is feeding plus the power capacity of the amplifier. Some of us KNOW a few things about fuses. BTW: Ever figured out what that horrible burning smell that follows you about all the time is ??? ****WIT !!!! ...... Phil |
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"Pheel My Arsehole" wrote A whole lot of rubbish which I snipped unread. Bored now.... |
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In article , Keith G
wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eiron wrote: The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand 2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice coil would probably blow first. 0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms. Think Jim Lesurf did lots of research into speaker fusing when he was at Armstrong. There have been a number of people who have done interesting research into this sort of pack bonding/reassurance/submission behaviour with gerbils.... FWIW The work I did was partly on dynamic effects if anyone was daft enough to put a fuse into the speaker lead, but mainly on the behaviour during pulses, etc, when in the dc rails. I quite swiftly decided it was 'unwise' to have a fuse in the actual speaker lead. But this was about 30 years ago, so I have no recollection of any the detailed results now! :-) Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:14:26 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote: In article 4a3f51c1.796538671@localhost, Don Pearce wrote: [snip] This is all true, but of course all filters (of the non-absorptive type) work by selective, controlled mismatch. Or by circulation or redirection. :-) Ah, but a circulator does need a load, or it just bounces right back out again. But when that filter is just a piece of cable, we have a situation where the attenuation is not only unpredictable, but could quite easily result in an increase in level when the impedance of the cable is somewhere intermediate between the source and load impedances. In other words, all you can say about cables used in this way is that the levels of RF will be different at the two ends. Yes. Thus the need to determine if the conditions of test are appropriate for normal use situations. The curio for me is that the conditions chosen show very small levels of (B) for the standard cables. I'd expect that if the standard cables happened to be almost matched, which is for me a dog that did not bark. Is that normal, accident, or what?... Also unexplained it what is happening to the spare earth conductor in the cable. A better way to run this would surely have been to connect the test set ground to the cable ground, then use a balun to feed the L and N from the BNC live. When I say better, I'm being slightly sarcastic, because the results would have been no more meaningful. d |
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"Keith Git" Ever figured out what that horrible burning smell that follows you about all the time is ??? ****WIT !!!! ...... Phil |
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In article ,
Keith G wrote: What I want to know is why this prat posts here in a general (enthusiasts) ng and, from what I can see of it, studiously avoids showing his pointy little head in the 'pro' and 'tech' groups...?? I did take rec.audio.pro for some time - but the posting volume was just too high. With it heavily biased to the 'gig' and recording studio side. Too scared, I suspect and wants to be the 'big fish in a near empty little pond'.... From the one who tried to make this his blog, that's rich. -- *There's no place like www.home.com * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article 4a438b4d.811270640@localhost,
Don Pearce wrote: Yes. Thus the need to determine if the conditions of test are appropriate for normal use situations. The curio for me is that the conditions chosen show very small levels of (B) for the standard cables. I'd expect that if the standard cables happened to be almost matched, which is for me a dog that did not bark. Is that normal, accident, or what?... Also unexplained it what is happening to the spare earth conductor in the cable. A better way to run this would surely have been to connect the test set ground to the cable ground, then use a balun to feed the L and N from the BNC live. When I say better, I'm being slightly sarcastic, because the results would have been no more meaningful. Would the results be more meaningful if the test gear used Russ Andrew's mains leads? ;-) -- *Succeed, in spite of management * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article ,
Keith G wrote: Kitty - go and do some basic reading about protecting wiring - or even just look at a fuse. Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. Can't decide if this clown's deliberately evading the point or it's flying way over his head, as usual.... Explanation (if anyone cares): I reduce a wire to a single strand to demonstrate the 'science vs, conventional wisdom' predicament that was prompted (to me) by the OP and monkeyboi sees it a 'fuse' and hasn't stopped going on about fuses ever since! Kitty, you'd certainly have known what a fuse is and how it works if you'd been using decent speakers and amp at a goodly level... Desperate to get me to *talk* to him, I suspect! ;-) Only if I were some kind of machochist. -- *The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article 4a438b4d.811270640@localhost, Don Pearce wrote: Yes. Thus the need to determine if the conditions of test are appropriate for normal use situations. The curio for me is that the conditions chosen show very small levels of (B) for the standard cables. I'd expect that if the standard cables happened to be almost matched, which is for me a dog that did not bark. Is that normal, accident, or what?... Also unexplained it what is happening to the spare earth conductor in the cable. A better way to run this would surely have been to connect the test set ground to the cable ground, then use a balun to feed the L and N from the BNC live. When I say better, I'm being slightly sarcastic, because the results would have been no more meaningful. Would the results be more meaningful if the test gear used Russ Andrew's mains leads? ;-) Ay oop, more *rubbing up* behaviour - Pucci must be feeling insecure.... -- *Succeed, in spite of management * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Don Pearce" wrote in message news:4a3dec21.704992218@localhost... On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:03:51 +0100, Jim Lesurf wrote: I got my latest copy of 'Stereophile' yesterday and started to read it. I came across comments by Paul Messenger about some work that Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan have recently put onto the web. This seems to be taken by Paul Messenger as showing that Russ's claims re some of his products are "now supported by proper scientific analysis". But having looked at http://www.russandrews.com/downloads...estPremRes.pdf http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/...eshift/cp.html Interesting. The big problem here is that they were measuring the wrong thing. Excellent point. They should have been measuring effects at speaker terminals, not on power rails. Notably, power rails before regulation. I'll take that as a tacit admission that the regulator made a big difference, even a bigger difference. Actually I don't need to get any admissions from them at all, making a big difference is what regulators do! My intuition tells me that the audible difference between 80 and 90 dB of attenuation at the power rails is going to be close to zero. Exactly. Furthermore, the fact that their product only made a 10 dB difference is a clear denounciation of their product. After all, you must add to that the CMRR, which is already going to be the right side of 100dB, so effectively we are talking the difference between -180 and -190. Both of these are altogether huge compared to what is actually needed. Also note that the stimulus they were using was a 500 volt peak spike. Ever see such a thing on a real world power line? Well, maybe once in a blue moon. Add to that the idea that 1000V spikes are common enough occurrences that they impinge on your day to day listening, (rather than being a "bugger me, what was that?" moment as half the fuses in the house blow), and require dealing with for listening pleasure. Agreed. Of course, if this were a single ended valve amp with no intrinsic power supply rejection, there might be a case to be made. Of course they make no admissions that one has to have a stupidly designed amp for there to be any possible audible benefit at all, except when the moon is blue! ;-) |
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"Keith G" wrote in message ... Also from the 'lay POV', No, that would be the willfully ignorant POV that you are expressing, Keith. As in, trolling. :-( |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: What I want to know is why this prat posts here in a general (enthusiasts) ng and, from what I can see of it, studiously avoids showing his pointy little head in the 'pro' and 'tech' groups...?? I did take rec.audio.pro for some time - but the posting volume was just too high. With it heavily biased to the 'gig' and recording studio side. Too scared, I suspect and wants to be the 'big fish in a near empty little pond'.... From the one who tried to make this his blog, that's rich. Pucci sees anyone posting his idea of *non approved* topics on this group as an encroachment into and overshadowing his *memoirs* and accuses them (me) of blogging, unless it's the people he usually sucks up to - and we all know who they are, don't we....?? ;-) -- *There's no place like www.home.com * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Keith G wrote: Kitty - go and do some basic reading about protecting wiring - or even just look at a fuse. Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. Can't decide if this clown's deliberately evading the point or it's flying way over his head, as usual.... Explanation (if anyone cares): I reduce a wire to a single strand to demonstrate the 'science vs, conventional wisdom' predicament that was prompted (to me) by the OP and monkeyboi sees it a 'fuse' and hasn't stopped going on about fuses ever since! Kitty, you'd certainly have known what a fuse is and how it works if you'd been using decent speakers and amp at a goodly level... Desperate to get me to *talk* to him, I suspect! ;-) Only if I were some kind of machochist. He says this and yet he can't leave my posts alone!! :-) Says it all, don't it....?? LOL! -- *The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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In article 4a3f51c1.796538671@localhost, Don Pearce
wrote: A) That all the mains cables seem to show a common fall in level with frequency at a rate of around 3dB per 100Mhz. B) That all the mains cables show variations with frequency that indicate the presence in the system of a pair of mismatch connectioned spaced 1 or 2 metres apart. (Hard to be precise about the distance as we have no clue as to the propagation velocities.) The overall slope of the cables (3dB per 100MHz) is about what I would expect for a cable not designed for the transmission of RF. The insulation will be pretty lossy, and the unshielded design will allow a certain amount of radiation, One of the reasons I doubt the above is the cause of (A) here is (B). If you look at the graphs in the pdf I initially mentioned you can see that the peak-minimim difference of the 'PowerKord' examples doesn't vanish at HF. Yet if the single pass cable losses were as high as 10dB, I'd expect the peak-minimum ripples to essentially dissapear. The 'round trip' reflection return would be be 20dB below the input, so would hardly contribute to causing frequency variations in the total output level. So my feeling is that the systematic fall - essentially common to all the cables - is an instrumental/measurement effect outwith the cables under test. I also have the feeling that your explanation would not explain the extent of the reduction, nor why all the cables seem to show it to much the same extent. For example, if - as seems likely - the fancy cables have a lower impedance then the field has a different E/H ratio. The dielectric will affect the E-field losses, not the H-field. Again it seems a curiously odd coincidence if that balanced perfectly at all frequencies with, say, resistive conduction losses. Making all the losses for the peaks against frequency come out much the same for all frequencies seems an odd coincidence to me. However I need to re-read the detailed papers a few times and think about them. My feeling, though is that all the results in the initial pdf show is that the cables have different Zc values. The relevant measurements seem to have been done with no mains supply or loading PSU. Just with what seem to be claimed to be 50Ohm terminations. Slainte, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
... In article , Eiron wrote: The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand 2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice coil would probably blow first. 0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms. And the chance of a 5A fuse in the speaker lead blowing under any conceivable domestic listening situation is as close to zero as makes very little difference. David. |
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In article ,
David Looser wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eiron wrote: The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand 2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice coil would probably blow first. 0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms. And the chance of a 5A fuse in the speaker lead blowing under any conceivable domestic listening situation is as close to zero as makes very little difference. It really depends on the speakers. amps and level you use. I was merely trying to explain to Kitty that a short length of single strand wire might well not make any audible difference under some circumstances. But might well under others. If a 5 amp fuse wouldn't ever blow I doubt few decent speakers could be damaged through overdriving. But they can do and are. -- *Where do forest rangers go to "get away from it all?" Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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Jim Lesurf wrote:
On 22 Jun, wrote: In article , Rob BTW I have just this minute had an email in reply from the contact. That has supplied some more documentation. Not yet had a chance to look at it, though. The contact supplied a document. This doesn't itself answer my questions. But it did direct me to http://www.russandrews.com/src/resea...rchpaper09.htm So I have downloaded the relevant 'papers' from their and will study them. I'll be interested to see what reactions others may have if they care to do the same. That's all very thorough Jim. All I'm saying is that it's a bit like me poring over David Icke's manifesto in the search for a decent political or social theory. Rob |
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David Looser wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eiron wrote: The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand 2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice coil would probably blow first. 0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms. And the chance of a 5A fuse in the speaker lead blowing under any conceivable domestic listening situation is as close to zero as makes very little difference. I beg to differ. Although amps tend to have fuses in the power rails rather than the output, if you took even a modest power amp with 4 ohm speakers and added a 5amp fuse to the speaker lead, then asked your teenager not to play his dreadful modern music too loud while you are away.... And if you forget to turn the power off to your power amp while unplugging the input.... Who designed RCA plugs so that the ground disconnects before the signal? -- Eiron. |
Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
"Eiron" wrote in message
... David Looser wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Eiron wrote: The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand 2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice coil would probably blow first. 0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms. And the chance of a 5A fuse in the speaker lead blowing under any conceivable domestic listening situation is as close to zero as makes very little difference. I beg to differ. Although amps tend to have fuses in the power rails rather than the output, if you took even a modest power amp with 4 ohm speakers and added a 5amp fuse to the speaker lead, then asked your teenager not to play his dreadful modern music too loud while you are away.... And if you forget to turn the power off to your power amp while unplugging the input.... Who designed RCA plugs so that the ground disconnects before the signal? Fuses take quite a long time to blow, depending on how much the current exceeds the rating. Music, even "dreadful modern music" has an rms value well below that of a sinewave, and a 5A sinewave into a 4 ohm load is 100W. So I go with the earlier comment that the speakers would be wrecked long before the a 5A fuse got round to protecting them. David. |
Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
... If a 5 amp fuse wouldn't ever blow I doubt few decent speakers could be damaged through overdriving. But they can do and are. -- I didn't say that speakers can't be damaged, they can be and they are. But fuses?, they are pretty useless except for gross overloads. Short the mains out and the fuse will blow, put a 50% overload on the ring and they probably won't, not in any meaningful time scale anyway. That's one of the reasons for the change to circuit-breakers. David. |
Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
In article ,
David Looser wrote: Fuses take quite a long time to blow, depending on how much the current exceeds the rating. Music, even "dreadful modern music" has an rms value well below that of a sinewave, and a 5A sinewave into a 4 ohm load is 100W. So I go with the earlier comment that the speakers would be wrecked long before the a 5A fuse got round to protecting them. Fuses aren't a good way of protecting speakers. After all if they are both copper wire so if the same sort of gauge it will just depend on the cooling and lengths, basically. -- *Can vegetarians eat animal crackers? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
"David Looser" wrote in message ... "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... If a 5 amp fuse wouldn't ever blow I doubt few decent speakers could be damaged through overdriving. But they can do and are. -- I didn't say that speakers can't be damaged, they can be and they are. But fuses?, they are pretty useless except for gross overloads. Short the mains out and the fuse will blow, put a 50% overload on the ring and they probably won't, not in any meaningful time scale anyway. That's one of the reasons for the change to circuit-breakers. Ignore Poochie, he's just bull****ting (or trying to) his way out of a hole he dug for himself when he saw I had reduced a speaker connection down to a single strand and he went into *fuse spasm*.... The single strand is nothing to do with fuses (what's the whole wire then - a *higher rated fuse*?) - it was merely to illustrate the point that I believe 'conventional wisdom' actually promotes and encourages 'snake oil' (referenced in the OP) by doing something rather unconventional.... |
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