Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 14:09:25 +0000, Keith Garratt
wrote:

Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were never
sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker was
completely reversed!

That may demonstrate just how MUCH room effects matter, as compared to
direct sound. Though I'm a little surprised they didn't notice any
hf drop-off as the tweeters moved out of view.

Me too.

On 10/01/2010 14:34, Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 14:09:25 +0000, Keith Garratt
wrote:


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were never
sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker was
completely reversed!

That may demonstrate just how MUCH room effects matter, as compared to
direct sound. Though I'm a little surprised they didn't notice any
hf drop-off as the tweeters moved out of view.


Yes, the wall behind the speakers is only painted - doubles as a cinema
screen!

Lack of HF would, I'm sure, be put down to using LPs (if I did each and
every time) and the speakers that were used on different occasions were
my Ruark Paladins a long time ago and more recently the JM-Labs I got
from Rob.

Never tried it with the 'horns' - dont' know why, but I wouldn't expect
it to work...???

Keith Garratt wrote:

'Freecycle'...??

Not sure about that - I looked at it once and it seemed to require a
Blood Oath and five copies of my Birth Certificate, so I let it go...

Well, it does involve the filthy bloody Yahoo!, which kept me off it for
years before I gave in. But I have cleared more stuff with less trouble
since then than I could have in any other way, and also got some things
I couldn't easily have obtained otherwise.

So it's been worth it for me.

Daniele

TonyL wrote:
bcoombes wrote:
Moving speaker positions by 'not very much' can make a really
noticeable difference at a particular listening position. I'm
absolutely sure of this from experience. However if you listen to
music while in various positions or while moving around it may not be
worth doing. As for 'how it works'..well..wave
reflection/cancellation/addition/ etc. etc. If we could see sound
waves no doubt many people would be surprised at how they could
improve their setups for not much effort.

I'm currently trying to work out why my IPL TL speakers are giving
disappointing results and I suspect placement problems. Main problem is lack
of a well defined stereo image. Phasing is OK, levels are OK, listening to
test tones reveal large volume fluctuations as I move around the room,
presumably due to reflections and cancellation. I know there are some rules
of thumb to give optimum speaker positions but I'm limited by room/furniture
layout...and wife.


Yeah, some problems are of course *absolutely* insurmountable.

TonyL wrote:
Keith Garratt wrote:

Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were
never sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker
was completely reversed!


That's odd because I can detect somebody walking across the room with my
eyes closed when my system is playing. This is despite the fact that my
hearing is getting older....HF cutoff is now significant above 12 kHz...used
to be good for 16kHz.



JEALOUS
8k for me.

On 10/01/2010 15:33, D.M. Procida wrote:
Keith wrote:

'Freecycle'...??

Not sure about that - I looked at it once and it seemed to require a
Blood Oath and five copies of my Birth Certificate, so I let it go...

Well, it does involve the filthy bloody Yahoo!, which kept me off it for
years before I gave in. But I have cleared more stuff with less trouble
since then than I could have in any other way, and also got some things
I couldn't easily have obtained otherwise.

So it's been worth it for me.

Daniele


Fair enough.

Yesterday a very nice chap came to collect my Suzuki motorbike in a big
white van. He also went off with a 100 inch tripod projector screen
(rendered spare by the motorised one we are using atm), the 'spare'
Samsung Blu-ray player I mentioned in this group a few days ago and a
nearly new leaf blower/sucker I bought on the impulse and which was more
trouble to use than it was worth - we get way too many leaves for such a
thing!

He almost also went off with the quite new Sony AV amp I thought we had
been having cable/connector problems with (another recent mention) but
I'm not *ever* in the biz of fitting up people with dodgy kit and, if
nowt else, the guy has offered to mentor me on the Mac *forever*, so we
put a hold on it for now!

Asitappens, it turns out after a bit of swapping and chopping last night
it's almost certainly the PJ and not the amp or player!!

This year is going to be a big *clear out year* for me - only so far in
and I'm rid of all the above and even my car is off my hands!!

:-)

On 10/01/2010 14:55, TonyL wrote:
Keith Garratt wrote:


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were
never sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker
was completely reversed!


That's odd because I can detect somebody walking across the room with my
eyes closed when my system is playing. This is despite the fact that my
hearing is getting older....HF cutoff is now significant above 12 kHz...used
to be good for 16kHz.




OK, my wording is poor - the experiments with other people were turning
only one speaker - very slowly, taking about a minute to reverse the
speaker. But your comment reminds me that there were comments like 'are
you standing in front of the speaker' but the big thing was that nobody
(what? three different people I can remember) thought there was anything
at all wrong when the speaker was all the way round!

Try it yourself if you can find a willing subject - maybe it's just
'sloppy listening'!!

On my own I have reversed both speakers a number of times in the past
without getting the impression the sound had significantly deteriorated!
I don't get the 'sweet spot' thing - the speakers I am listening to
right now usually seem to get louder the further I move away from them!!

On 10/01/2010 15:24, bcoombes wrote:
Keith Garratt wrote:



In summation - if the 'sweet spot' is so bloody small you can wreck it
by moving a speaker only slightly, you are using the wrong type of
speaker!

Is my view....

I see what you are saying but in these straightened times many of us are
'stuck' with the speakers we have (For whatever reason). So making the
best of them is the only option.


Fair comment.

Speakers get better the longer you have them, in my book. Actually, I
would go as far as to suggest that most people who make a significant
effort to *upgrade* speakers end up invariably disappointed..??

Keith Garratt wrote:

In summation - if the 'sweet spot' is so bloody small you can wreck it
by moving a speaker only slightly, you are using the wrong type of
speaker!

Is my view....

I see what you are saying but in these straightened times many of us are
'stuck' with the speakers we have (For whatever reason). So making the
best of them is the only option.

Fair comment.

Speakers get better the longer you have them, in my book. Actually, I
would go as far as to suggest that most people who make a significant
effort to *upgrade* speakers end up invariably disappointed..??

I don't suppose they keep on getting better, because eventually some of
the materials may start to harden or dry out. But I've definitely heard
new speakers improve significantly over a period of 48 hours or so.

Daniele

"D.M. Procida" wrote

I don't suppose they keep on getting better, because eventually some of
the materials may start to harden or dry out. But I've definitely heard
new speakers improve significantly over a period of 48 hours or so.


More likely you adjust to their sound, just as a piece of music grows on you
the more you listen to it.

David.