On 02/01/10 23:23, Peter Duncanson wrote:

You may be thinking of the products of the ABC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerated_Bread_Company

Never heard of that one before, bread made with industrial strength soda
water ...

"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
You might well have a point there. I suspect I was looking at the
figures for the amps when I wrote that.

I can't find figures for THD in either of my turntables' docs, but I
have found one for Intermodulation distortion 1% on a Shure V15 Type
III cartridge, which I would guess to be the weakest link in the
chain. Especially if you or AN Other can supply something a little
more concrete, I'll happily change the page.

The only thing I can find at the moment is from "Sound Reproduction" by
G.A.Briggs. This is a none too new book being a 1958 edition, but the
principles of disc recording hasn't really changed much since then.
Distortion is introduced by the cutterhead, by the processes that transfer
the grooves in the master disc to the vinyl pressing, and by the way that
the replay stylus follows the grooves. The sum total of all these can be
quite high. A diagram on page 297 of "Sound Reproduction" gives a graph of
distortion vs frequency for the Grampian feedback cutter head which varies
between 2 and 5% over the frequency range of 50Hz to 8kHz. Although I'm sure
that improvements in cutterheads has reduced this, that will be counteracted
by the change to stereo recording, which removes the distortion cancellation
that a mono recording benefits from.

I'd be interested to see if anyone can come up with anything more up to
date.

David.

In article , Steve Terry
wrote:
So what you are saying is more channels are better.
Then Internet radio is better, making DAB irrelevan

Internet radio usually sounds better too, even at 128kb/s. Many
stations are available in several bitrates, and even if you only listen
to the higher quality ones, there are still hundreds of them.

Rod.
--
Virtual Access V6.3 free usenet/email software from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/virtual-access/

On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 08:20:24 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

On 02/01/10 23:23, Peter Duncanson wrote:

You may be thinking of the products of the ABC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerated_Bread_Company

Never heard of that one before, bread made with industrial strength soda
water ...

When I visited London in the 1950s I noticed ABC cafes (or tea houses as
they were known). It was quite a bit later that I discovered what ABC
stood for. I was even more surprised when I went to live in Manchester
and saw and used shops named UCP and then learnt that UCP stood for
United Cattle Products.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

In article en.co.uk,
Roderick Stewart scribeth
thus
In article , Steve Terry
wrote:
So what you are saying is more channels are better.
Then Internet radio is better, making DAB irrelevan

Internet radio usually sounds better too, even at 128kb/s. Many
stations are available in several bitrates, and even if you only listen
to the higher quality ones, there are still hundreds of them.


Indeed.. but not -that- available mobile;(...
Rod.

--
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
In article en.co.uk,
Roderick Stewart scribeth
thus
In article , Steve Terry
wrote:
So what you are saying is more channels are better.
Then Internet radio is better, making DAB irrelevan
Internet radio usually sounds better too, even at 128kb/s. Many
stations are available in several bitrates, and even if you only listen
to the higher quality ones, there are still hundreds of them.


Indeed.. but not -that- available mobile;(...
Rod.


Maybe MiFi would be an answer for some.
http://threestore.three.co.uk/broadband/

--
Adrian

"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...
Java Jive wrote:
Anyhow, the point of my mentioning it is that
he also didn't really seem to get the point that the important issue
is not the pros and cons of analogue and digital media, but how the
companies trash the content thereof!)

Exactly, and the whole problem with digital is that it gives the
music/broadcasting moguls more mangling options while chasing the fast
buck.
On the subject of cd versus vinyl ISTR that I once heard an ultra high end
vinyl based system and was utterly astonished by the sound but I think it
was a system well beyond the reach of anyone but the ultra rich. I can't
remember the system details but I think the speakers were the top of the
range Tannoys from that era. (About 35 years ago..unfortunately )


Bothers me when I see stuff implying that you have got to spend a fortune to
enjoy vinyl....

Keith G wrote:

"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...
Java Jive wrote:
Anyhow, the point of my mentioning it is that
he also didn't really seem to get the point that the important issue
is not the pros and cons of analogue and digital media, but how the
companies trash the content thereof!)

Exactly, and the whole problem with digital is that it gives the
music/broadcasting moguls more mangling options while chasing the fast
buck.
On the subject of cd versus vinyl ISTR that I once heard an ultra high
end vinyl based system and was utterly astonished by the sound but I
think it was a system well beyond the reach of anyone but the ultra
rich. I can't remember the system details but I think the speakers
were the top of the range Tannoys from that era. (About 35 years
ago..unfortunately )


Bothers me when I see stuff implying that you have got to spend a
fortune to enjoy vinyl....



Well it depends on your standards. I've no doubt I could enjoy a £1000 vinyl
system. To 'astonish' me would require much much more. (Law of diminishing
returns etc.)

Java Jive wrote:
The previous search was for: THD turntable

These are from THD vinyl:

Vinyl vs. CD - A Running Commentary, Page 2 of 4

"At 1 kHz, 0 dB, distortion was 7%."
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/techn...e.html?start=1


Hydrogenaudio Forums Hydrogenaudio Forum General Audio
"Balance issues with vinyl rips, why is the right side almost always
louder than the left?" Post #3

"I've found that THD results on test records are fairly sensitive to
what your antiskate is at. If one channel is considerably higher in
THD than the other, then the distortion will act to both a) increase
the harmonic content of the music into higher frequencies, and b)
intermodulate the music against itself. Both of these effects can
throw distortion into the most sensitive regions of hearing (1-5Khz),
much so in one channel than another. This may or may not be visible on
a VU meter. No, I have not yet ABX'd this, but I can provide THD
results if asked, and possibly literature references if prodded hard
enough."

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...eaded &start=


And from THD cartridge:

"Setting Up Your Phono Cartridge With The HIFI News Record And Diamond
Cut"

"The test record ... has a number of 300 Hz tones (called Bias Setting
tones) recorded at different levels."

So not exactly a full FR test then (though there are also other
tests)!

http://www.tracertek.com/media/news/newscartridge.pdf

Hydrogenaudio Forums CD-R and Audio Hardware Audio Hardware
"Turntable Cartridges -- Objective Data?" Post by Gabdx

"In fact there is no THD and compliance % on any cartridges
manufacturer"

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...hp/t33398.html

"Jan Allaerts hand builds some of the finest phono cartridges in the
world."
...
MC 1 Eco Phono Cartridge
Total THD % 1.5 %
$2200.00 CDN (suggested retail)

MC 1 Boron Phono Cartridge
Total THD % 0.5 %
$3400.00 CDN (suggested retail)

Yeah but these are Canadian dollars which means the MC2 Formula One Cartridge is
less than £8000, the bargain of the century surely. I've already ordered half a
dozen.

bcoombes wrote:
Java Jive wrote:
The previous search was for: THD turntable

These are from THD vinyl:

Vinyl vs. CD - A Running Commentary, Page 2 of 4

"At 1 kHz, 0 dB, distortion was 7%."
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/techn...e.html?start=1



Hydrogenaudio Forums Hydrogenaudio Forum General Audio
"Balance issues with vinyl rips, why is the right side almost always
louder than the left?" Post #3

"I've found that THD results on test records are fairly sensitive to
what your antiskate is at. If one channel is considerably higher in
THD than the other, then the distortion will act to both a) increase
the harmonic content of the music into higher frequencies, and b)
intermodulate the music against itself. Both of these effects can
throw distortion into the most sensitive regions of hearing (1-5Khz),
much so in one channel than another. This may or may not be visible on
a VU meter. No, I have not yet ABX'd this, but I can provide THD
results if asked, and possibly literature references if prodded hard
enough."

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...eaded &start=



And from THD cartridge:

"Setting Up Your Phono Cartridge With The HIFI News Record And Diamond
Cut"

"The test record ... has a number of 300 Hz tones (called Bias Setting
tones) recorded at different levels."

So not exactly a full FR test then (though there are also other
tests)!

http://www.tracertek.com/media/news/newscartridge.pdf

Hydrogenaudio Forums CD-R and Audio Hardware Audio Hardware
"Turntable Cartridges -- Objective Data?" Post by Gabdx

"In fact there is no THD and compliance % on any cartridges
manufacturer"

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...hp/t33398.html

"Jan Allaerts hand builds some of the finest phono cartridges in the
world."
...
MC 1 Eco Phono Cartridge
Total THD % 1.5 %
$2200.00 CDN (suggested retail)

MC 1 Boron Phono Cartridge
Total THD % 0.5 %
$3400.00 CDN (suggested retail)

Yeah but these are Canadian dollars which means the MC2 Formula One
Cartridge is less than £8000, the bargain of the century surely. I've
already ordered half a dozen.

Sorry I forgot to post this link
http://most-expensive.net/turntable-in-world
The Goldmund Reference II turntable at only $300,000 (yes that's three hundred
thousand) would be an essential part of any half decent vinyl setup.