Making my record player sound better
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:




Any faults with the existing equipment will permanently damage
any (expensive) test recording (IOW: Subsequent playback will
likely reveal faults that do not exist, due to prior damage).

Only if the problems are really severe, and usually only after a
number of playings.

**WRONG! A chipped stylus will cause immediate and permanent damage.

What part of the OP makes you sure he has a chipped stylus? Must admit
that what he describes doesn't sound like that to me.

**Since I have not examined the system in question, I don't know. In
such cases, I always err on the conservative side. Without performing
the necessary static tests and measurements, one cannot predict how
safe it is to play a recording on that TT. Performing the tests is just
good, logical common-sense. Whacking a good disk on risks damage.


TBH it sound more like the end of side and mistracking behaviours I
used to find were the norm for 'Linn' carts and stylii many years ago
even when they were in the state as sold. One of the reasons I never
liked Linn systems. So if I were him I'd tend to simply take the
advice offerred by others and get a new and better cartridge/stylus
and not bother with the one he has. Then use a test disc to check he
has it setup well.

**Whilst I have no objection to installing a new stylus/cartridge on the
arm (since that is where the fault likely lies), performing basic tests
and measurements should be part of the procedure. Testing the existing
set-up with a test disk makes zero sense.

I note your opinion but do not share it. I'd recommend you re-read what
the
OP actually wrote, and note the details. Looks to me like basic
mistracking
due to a poor cartridge, misalignment, or normal wear. The symptoms don't
seem like a 'chipped stylus' to me.

**I've been in the service business for more than 40 years. One of the first
things a service person does, is listen carefully to the client's complaint.
Then one ignores the client's diagnosis and a proper diagnosis is performed.
As part of the process, it is vital to perform the requisite checks and
measurements. I certainly NEVER place any of my very valuable (and now,
unobtainable) test LPs on any turntable that is not in 100% pristine
operating condition. That includes a careful check of the stylus and
geometry check. If I won't use my own test LP on a TT, I sure as Hell won't
advise a client to do so.

The fault may or may not be a chipped stylus. It is simply not worth the
risk. It is a simple matter to perform the requisite checks and
measurements. It is also common-sense. Your words:

"....due to a poor cartridge, misalignment, or normal wear..."

merely restate what I originally stated. The standard checks should be
performed first. A misaligned cartridge is quite capable of inflicting
permanent damage to an LP.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Making my record player sound better
 

Don Pearce wrote:

If I recorded it, would that help an expert identify the possible cause?


Please do. Save it as wav, not mp3 though.

OK, I've recorded some samples.

I presume that most people can play AIFF (.aif) and lossless compressed
audio (.m4a) files - if not, I will find something to convert it to WAV.

AIFF, 52MB: http://esquivalier.com/media/record_player.aif
Compressed, 52MB: http://esquivalier.com/media/record_player.m4a

It contains the following extracts:

0:00 Section from "If There Is Something" from the first Roxy Music
album, CD

0:58 Same section, from LP (middle of the side) - listen how the
glassiness breaks through at the edge of the synth/sax/piano notes

1:56 Section from "Street Life", from _Stranded_, CD

2:24 Same section, from LP (first track on side)

2:52 Section from "Roadrunner", from The Modern Lovers' first album,
from LP (first track on side)

3:10 Section from "Old World" on the same record, 3/4 of the way
through the side - listen to how the word "dead" at 3:27 breaks up - it
doesn't do this on my CD copy.

3:35 Section from L'Orfeo, beginning of the side
4:00 Section from the middle of the side
4:21 Section from the end of side (I think you can hear the
glassiness getting worse through the side)
Section from

Thanks for taking the time to listen, and for any advice on what the
problem might be.

Daniele

Making my record player sound better
 

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:19:10 +0000,
(D.M. Procida) wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

If I recorded it, would that help an expert identify the possible cause?


Please do. Save it as wav, not mp3 though.

OK, I've recorded some samples.

I presume that most people can play AIFF (.aif) and lossless compressed
audio (.m4a) files - if not, I will find something to convert it to WAV.

AIFF, 52MB: http://esquivalier.com/media/record_player.aif
Compressed, 52MB: http://esquivalier.com/media/record_player.m4a

It contains the following extracts:

0:00 Section from "If There Is Something" from the first Roxy Music
album, CD

0:58 Same section, from LP (middle of the side) - listen how the
glassiness breaks through at the edge of the synth/sax/piano notes

1:56 Section from "Street Life", from _Stranded_, CD

2:24 Same section, from LP (first track on side)

2:52 Section from "Roadrunner", from The Modern Lovers' first album,
from LP (first track on side)

3:10 Section from "Old World" on the same record, 3/4 of the way
through the side - listen to how the word "dead" at 3:27 breaks up - it
doesn't do this on my CD copy.

3:35 Section from L'Orfeo, beginning of the side
4:00 Section from the middle of the side
4:21 Section from the end of side (I think you can hear the
glassiness getting worse through the side)
Section from

Thanks for taking the time to listen, and for any advice on what the
problem might be.


OK, there is quite a severe problem there - you do have to listen
through the differences in mix and mastering on the pop tracks, but
that choral stuff at the end is just horrible. I seriously would not
put one of my records on that deck until it is sorted out. It isn't
just a small matter of setup either - something is broken.

I would suggest you review the suggestions that have already been put
to you and see what takes your fancy.

d

Making my record player sound better
 

"D.M. Procida" wrote

sneep


3:35 Section from L'Orfeo, beginning of the side


Thank you for that bit - it put me back on track!

:-)


4:00 Section from the middle of the side
4:21 Section from the end of side (I think you can hear the
glassiness getting worse through the side)
Section from

Thanks for taking the time to listen, and for any advice on what the
problem might be.


Assuming your tonearm moves freely throughout the entire range required
without binding, stiffness &c., I'm wondering if it isn't something as
simple as poor ot no antiskate adjustment coupled with possibly a very dirty
stylus?

If it was me I'd be thinking to sway the stylus at least and preferably the
whole cart - grab a nice, new Audio Technica AT110E for under 30 quid and
try that. You can't run a vinyl rig with just the one knackered old Linn
cart; I must have the best part of two dozen different carts here, but then
I eschew 'audiophile' turntables and like a tonearm with a removable
headshell - I could change a cart in about 20 seconds if I needed to!!

Making my record player sound better
 

"Keith G" wrote


Assuming your tonearm moves freely throughout the entire range required
without binding, stiffness &c., I'm wondering if it isn't something as
simple as poor ot no antiskate adjustment coupled with possibly a very
dirty stylus?

If it was me I'd be thinking to sway the stylus at least and preferably
the whole cart


Please substitute gibberish with words of your own choosing....

Making my record player sound better
 

Keith G wrote:

"Keith G" wrote


Assuming your tonearm moves freely throughout the entire range
required without binding, stiffness &c., I'm wondering if it isn't
something as simple as poor ot no antiskate adjustment coupled with
possibly a very dirty stylus?

If it was me I'd be thinking to sway the stylus at least and
preferably the whole cart


Please substitute gibberish with words of your own choosing....



If it was me I'd be dinking to flay the piles as yeast and prefabricate the holy
tart.


--
Bill Coombes

Making my record player sound better
 

"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...
Keith G wrote:

"Keith G" wrote


Assuming your tonearm moves freely throughout the entire range required
without binding, stiffness &c., I'm wondering if it isn't something as
simple as poor ot no antiskate adjustment coupled with possibly a very
dirty stylus?

If it was me I'd be thinking to sway the stylus at least and preferably
the whole cart


Please substitute gibberish with words of your own choosing....



If it was me I'd be dinking to flay the piles as yeast and prefabricate
the holy tart.


Is more or less what I already said - is it not?

Making my record player sound better
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
If it was me I'd be thinking to sway the stylus at least and preferably
the whole cart - grab a nice, new Audio Technica AT110E for under 30
quid and try that. You can't run a vinyl rig with just the one
knackered old Linn cart; I must have the best part of two dozen
different carts here, but then I eschew 'audiophile' turntables and
like a tonearm with a removable headshell - I could change a cart in
about 20 seconds if I needed to!!

I'm curious as to why, as you so often state, vinyl gives such a wonderful
sound, 2 dozen different carts are needed? They must all sound different
to have any point. Do you own 2 dozen CD players too? Otherwise it strikes
me you're looking for a particular type of distortion that suits your mood
and or the music you're listening to. And that's before realising that to
get the best out of a cart requires careful setting up. Which takes quite
some time to do properly.

--
*Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do "practice?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Making my record player sound better
 

"D.M. Procida"
wrote in
message

Don Pearce wrote:

If I recorded it, would that help an expert identify
the possible cause?


Please do. Save it as wav, not mp3 though.

OK, I've recorded some samples.

I presume that most people can play AIFF (.aif) and
lossless compressed audio (.m4a) files - if not, I will
find something to convert it to WAV.

AIFF, 52MB:
http://esquivalier.com/media/record_player.aif
Compressed, 52MB:
http://esquivalier.com/media/record_player.m4a

It contains the following extracts:

0:00 Section from "If There Is Something" from the
first Roxy Music album, CD

0:58 Same section, from LP (middle of the side) -
listen how the glassiness breaks through at the edge of
the synth/sax/piano notes

1:56 Section from "Street Life", from _Stranded_, CD

2:24 Same section, from LP (first track on side)

2:52 Section from "Roadrunner", from The Modern
Lovers' first album, from LP (first track on side)

3:10 Section from "Old World" on the same record, 3/4
of the way through the side - listen to how the word
"dead" at 3:27 breaks up - it doesn't do this on my CD
copy.

3:35 Section from L'Orfeo, beginning of the side
4:00 Section from the middle of the side
4:21 Section from the end of side (I think you can
hear the glassiness getting worse through the side)
Section from

Thanks for taking the time to listen, and for any advice
on what the problem might be.

Some of this music is such processed stuff that one wonders how to
distinguish the possibly intentinional distortion from that which is alleged
to be due to a problem with the playback equipment.

Several of the slections including the choral stuff has enough tics and
pops that it might be that they were simply loved to death.

I have to admit that it always seemed to me to be questionable with vinyl
exactly where any distortion that was heard actually came from. One nice
thing about digital is that while mastering might give it poor tone, and
excess compression make it sound flat and lifeless, there isn't a lot of
audible distortion of the kinds that are audible with much vinyl.

Making my record player sound better
 

Arny Krueger wrote:

"D.M. Procida"
wrote in
message

Don Pearce wrote:

If I recorded it, would that help an expert identify
the possible cause?


Please do. Save it as wav, not mp3 though.

OK, I've recorded some samples.

I presume that most people can play AIFF (.aif) and
lossless compressed audio (.m4a) files - if not, I will
find something to convert it to WAV.

AIFF, 52MB:
http://esquivalier.com/media/record_player.aif
Compressed, 52MB:
http://esquivalier.com/media/record_player.m4a

It contains the following extracts:

0:00 Section from "If There Is Something" from the
first Roxy Music album, CD

0:58 Same section, from LP (middle of the side) -
listen how the glassiness breaks through at the edge of
the synth/sax/piano notes

1:56 Section from "Street Life", from _Stranded_, CD

2:24 Same section, from LP (first track on side)

2:52 Section from "Roadrunner", from The Modern
Lovers' first album, from LP (first track on side)

3:10 Section from "Old World" on the same record, 3/4
of the way through the side - listen to how the word
"dead" at 3:27 breaks up - it doesn't do this on my CD
copy.

3:35 Section from L'Orfeo, beginning of the side
4:00 Section from the middle of the side
4:21 Section from the end of side (I think you can
hear the glassiness getting worse through the side)
Section from

Thanks for taking the time to listen, and for any advice
on what the problem might be.

Some of this music is such processed stuff that one wonders how to
distinguish the possibly intentinional distortion from that which is alleged
to be due to a problem with the playback equipment.

That's why I included the CD versions! You can hear how the synth on the
first extract almost breaks through into glassiness, while the piano
clearly doesn't. Yet on the LP, it's audible on both.

The Modern Lovers LP is very unprocessed, even by the standards of 1972.

Daniele