Aaarghh!! Me sax player's away for two weeks now!!

Thinks...

OK! Gives me the opportunity for a little tidying up - so, here we go again!

This little snippet:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...%20Webster.jpg


Has been recorded with two different mics - A is the left (upper) channel; B
is the right (lower) channel.

Quite simply - allowing for the 'quite rapidly improving novice' playing,
which mic sounds the best on this instrument?


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-A.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-B.wav


(Key noise isn't an issue - more noticeable on one than the other simply
because two mic stands can't occupy the same space!)

Why Ben Webster? That's for Iain's benfit - see (hear) from about 12 seconds
in! :-)

Answers on a postcard - serious consequences may well arise and certain
items could find their way onto eBay, so no ****ing about if you don't
mind!!

:-)

On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:43:51 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

Quite simply - allowing for the 'quite rapidly improving novice' playing,
which mic sounds the best on this instrument?


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-A.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-B.wav


The difference between those two mics is totally drowned by a room
problem - namely a huge mode at 500Hz and about 1kHz. You may get some
preferences, but they aren't going to reflect the mics in any way, so
no selling on the basis of this test.

d

Keith G wrote:
Aaarghh!! Me sax player's away for two weeks now!!

Thinks...

OK! Gives me the opportunity for a little tidying up - so, here we go
again!

This little snippet:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...%20Webster.jpg



No comments to make other than it's nice to see a screen shot of that old Sonic
Foundry software, I was a big fan of their stuff back in the day.

--
Bill Coombes

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:43:51 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

Quite simply - allowing for the 'quite rapidly improving novice' playing,
which mic sounds the best on this instrument?


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-A.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-B.wav


The difference between those two mics is totally drowned by a room
problem - namely a huge mode at 500Hz and about 1kHz. You may get some
preferences, but they aren't going to reflect the mics in any way, so
no selling on the basis of this test.

d

Don, how did you come to that conclusion? I've done an FFT of the track, and
don't see any great peaks. What should I be looking for?

Also, 500Hz has a wavelength of about 69cm, so find it hard to see what
aspect of a room could have a mode at such a high frequency....unless the
mic was located in an alcove.

S.

On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:25:43 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:43:51 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

Quite simply - allowing for the 'quite rapidly improving novice' playing,
which mic sounds the best on this instrument?


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-A.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-B.wav


The difference between those two mics is totally drowned by a room
problem - namely a huge mode at 500Hz and about 1kHz. You may get some
preferences, but they aren't going to reflect the mics in any way, so
no selling on the basis of this test.

d

Don, how did you come to that conclusion? I've done an FFT of the track, and
don't see any great peaks. What should I be looking for?


You can hear it very clearly as a loud honk on track A. You can see it
too at the start of the first three phrases on the picture.

Also, 500Hz has a wavelength of about 69cm, so find it hard to see what
aspect of a room could have a mode at such a high frequency....unless the
mic was located in an alcove.

Yes it is a harmonic of some distance between two facing walls. Hard
surfaces will produce modes up to unbelievably high frequencies. Also,
it only needs a very small distance between mics for such differences
to show up when moding is the problem.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:25:43 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:43:51 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

Quite simply - allowing for the 'quite rapidly improving novice'
playing,
which mic sounds the best on this instrument?


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-A.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-B.wav


The difference between those two mics is totally drowned by a room
problem - namely a huge mode at 500Hz and about 1kHz. You may get some
preferences, but they aren't going to reflect the mics in any way, so
no selling on the basis of this test.

d

Don, how did you come to that conclusion? I've done an FFT of the track,
and
don't see any great peaks. What should I be looking for?


You can hear it very clearly as a loud honk on track A. You can see it
too at the start of the first three phrases on the picture.

Also, 500Hz has a wavelength of about 69cm, so find it hard to see what
aspect of a room could have a mode at such a high frequency....unless the
mic was located in an alcove.

Yes it is a harmonic of some distance between two facing walls. Hard
surfaces will produce modes up to unbelievably high frequencies. Also,
it only needs a very small distance between mics for such differences
to show up when moding is the problem.



Well, while I can hear the 'fruitiness' in A, but I'm not sure I'd would
call it a honk - here's my 'spectrum analysis' of the Wave A:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...A-Spectrum.jpg

I can't see anything to worry about a t 500 and a 1000 Hz...??

I don't post these clips to catch anybody out but Mic B was called 'honky a
few days back when the same two mics were offered for comparison! It's just
me - I've got eBay itch (had a nice little sale today) and the right *night
and day* verdict on these two mics would have precipitated a *3 mic selling
frenzy* on eBay and would slim me down nicely!

Can't beat a bit of eBaying when the weather's too damn ****ty to venture
out!

:-)

"Keith G" wrote

Well, while I can hear the 'fruitiness' in A, but I'm not sure I'd would
call it a honk - here's my 'spectrum analysis' of the Wave A:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...A-Spectrum.jpg

I can't see anything to worry about a t 500 and a 1000 Hz...??



Or can I? - I was looking at the 10k mark!

On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:45:12 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 18:25:43 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 17:43:51 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

Quite simply - allowing for the 'quite rapidly improving novice'
playing,
which mic sounds the best on this instrument?


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-A.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...0Webster-B.wav


The difference between those two mics is totally drowned by a room
problem - namely a huge mode at 500Hz and about 1kHz. You may get some
preferences, but they aren't going to reflect the mics in any way, so
no selling on the basis of this test.

d

Don, how did you come to that conclusion? I've done an FFT of the track,
and
don't see any great peaks. What should I be looking for?


You can hear it very clearly as a loud honk on track A. You can see it
too at the start of the first three phrases on the picture.

Also, 500Hz has a wavelength of about 69cm, so find it hard to see what
aspect of a room could have a mode at such a high frequency....unless the
mic was located in an alcove.

Yes it is a harmonic of some distance between two facing walls. Hard
surfaces will produce modes up to unbelievably high frequencies. Also,
it only needs a very small distance between mics for such differences
to show up when moding is the problem.



Well, while I can hear the 'fruitiness' in A, but I'm not sure I'd would
call it a honk - here's my 'spectrum analysis' of the Wave A:

That fruitiness is the honk. My ISP's FTP isn't working right now or I
would show you another FFT. If you can, do one just of the bit near
the start that looks different between the two. That will show it.

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...A-Spectrum.jpg

I can't see anything to worry about a t 500 and a 1000 Hz...??

I don't post these clips to catch anybody out but Mic B was called 'honky a
few days back when the same two mics were offered for comparison! It's just
me - I've got eBay itch (had a nice little sale today) and the right *night
and day* verdict on these two mics would have precipitated a *3 mic selling
frenzy* on eBay and would slim me down nicely!

Can't beat a bit of eBaying when the weather's too damn ****ty to venture
out!

The honkiness (fruitiness if you prefer) has nothing to do with the
mics - mics seldom show differences at those kind of frequencies
anyway - but is truly a room effect.

d

"Don Pearce" wrote


That fruitiness is the honk. My ISP's FTP isn't working right now or I
would show you another FFT. If you can, do one just of the bit near
the start that looks different between the two. That will show it.


Like this:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...-Spectrum2.jpg


Seems to be tad a spikey at the 500 Hz mark!



The honkiness (fruitiness if you prefer) has nothing to do with the
mics - mics seldom show differences at those kind of frequencies
anyway - but is truly a room effect.



It's this simple - if the Neumann could comprehensively see off the other
mics I would probably move them on (I don't need more than one) but it might
just be 'eBay itch'....

"Keith G" wrote


It's this simple - if the Neumann could comprehensively see off the other
mics I would probably move them on (I don't need more than one) but it
might just be 'eBay itch'....


Also, just to *simplify* things....

(I thinks it's the first signs of me starting a 'Bucket List'! :-)