NE 5534
 

I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain of
0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE 5543 for this
these days?

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NE 5534
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain of
0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE 5543 for this
these days?


The ole 5534 and 5532 are still very good and easy to use for that sort
of app Dave...
--
Tony Sayer

NE 5534
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain of
0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE 5543 for this
these days?



The 5534 is a lot better for that than the 5543.

Cheers

Ian

NE 5534
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain of
0-10dB. Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE 5543
for this these days?

FWIW I always preferred the Hitachi 12017. But I realise that this is a
somewhat unusual choice. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

NE 5534
 

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 10:10:07 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain of
0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE 5543 for this
these days?

I think the 5534 is still about as good as it gets. There may be
something around that measures a little better by now, but nobody
could tell by listening.

d

NE 5534
 

In article ,
Ian Bell wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain
of 0-10dB. Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE
5543 for this these days?



The 5534 is a lot better for that than the 5543.

But I'm going to use it with +&- reversed...

--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NE 5534
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message

I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps
with a gain of 0-10dB.

Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol'
NE 5543 for this these days?

NE 5532, because you get twice as many op amps for the same $1.

NE 5534
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article , Dave Plowman
(News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level
amps with a gain of 0-10dB. Using a +/-15 volt supply.
Anything better than the ol' NE 5543 for this these days?

FWIW I always preferred the Hitachi 12017. But I realise
that this is a somewhat unusual choice. :-)

Looks like it is purpose developed for RIAA preamps.

It seems to be happy with somewhat higher VCC.

Reading the data sheet, I see no info about one of the NE5532/NE5534's long
suits, which is low distortion into low impedance loads.

NE 5534
 

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain
of 0-10dB. Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE
5543 for this these days?

FWIW I always preferred the Hitachi 12017. But I realise that this is
a somewhat unusual choice. :-)

Looks like it is purpose developed for RIAA preamps.

Yes. That was the intent of Hitachi. :-)

However experiment showed that with suitable tweaking of the stabilisation
network it works nicely as a buffer of voltage gain stage.

It seems to be happy with somewhat higher VCC.

Yes. IIRC I used to use it with +/-20V lines.

Reading the data sheet, I see no info about one of the NE5532/NE5534's
long suits, which is low distortion into low impedance loads.

Afraid I can't recall all the measurements I made. But the specs for the
Armstrong 732 showed I got less than 0.005% 20Hz-20kHz into the 10k IHFA
load. For up to over 10Vrms IIRC.

That was of course going though more than one 12017. I think it also worked
fine into much lower loads than 10k provided you didn't ask for +/-20V. And
I think it was OK down to about 1k load provided you only wanted a volt or
two. But I can't now recall details. Certainly at the time I preferred it
to the competing op amps.

I guess most people never considered trying it as a general amp due to the
presentation being for RIAA. But I noticed the high rail, low noise, etc,
and found it responded well to being experimented with. Hence came to
prefer it.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

NE 5534
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain of
0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE 5543 for this
these days?


For that gain range I'd use 5532s as they are fully compensated and thus
work down to 0dB gain without external compensation caps. The 5534 is only
stable at gains of 10dB and above without external compensation.

David.

NE 5534
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article
, Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article , Dave
Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level
amps with a gain of 0-10dB. Using a +/-15 volt supply.
Anything better than the ol' NE 5543 for this these
days?

FWIW I always preferred the Hitachi 12017. But I
realise that this is a somewhat unusual choice. :-)

Looks like it is purpose developed for RIAA preamps.

Yes. That was the intent of Hitachi. :-)

However experiment showed that with suitable tweaking of
the stabilisation network it works nicely as a buffer of
voltage gain stage.

It seems to be happy with somewhat higher VCC.

Yes. IIRC I used to use it with +/-20V lines.

Reading the data sheet, I see no info about one of the
NE5532/NE5534's long suits, which is low distortion into
low impedance loads.

Afraid I can't recall all the measurements I made. But
the specs for the Armstrong 732 showed I got less than
0.005% 20Hz-20kHz into the 10k IHFA load. For up to over
10Vrms IIRC.

5534s and 5532s can provide 10 volt signals into 1K ohm loads, even at
high frequencies. This op amp looks marginal for professional use.

That was of course going though more than one 12017. I
think it also worked fine into much lower loads than 10k
provided you didn't ask for +/-20V. And I think it was OK
down to about 1k load provided you only wanted a volt or
two. But I can't now recall details. Certainly at the
time I preferred it to the competing op amps.

Looks good for consumer and "in the box" applications. In pro applications,
many designers would use 5532s for output buffers, following it.

I guess most people never considered trying it as a
general amp due to the presentation being for RIAA. But I
noticed the high rail, low noise, etc, and found it
responded well to being experimented with. Hence came to
prefer it.

It is hard to tell how its noise performance shapes up in professional
applications, and flat response.

NE 5534
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Ian Bell wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain
of 0-10dB. Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE
5543 for this these days?



The 5534 is a lot better for that than the 5543.

But I'm going to use it with +&- reversed...



Better remember to reverse your speaker cables to compensate ;-)

BTW, I think there is little if anything to beat the 5534

Cheers

Ian

NE 5534
 

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain
of 0-10dB. Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE
5543 for this these days?


For that gain range I'd use 5532s as they are fully compensated and thus
work down to 0dB gain without external compensation caps. The 5534 is
only stable at gains of 10dB and above without external compensation.

Space might be a problem, though. It's likely to be tight.

--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NE 5534
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Looser wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain
of 0-10dB. Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE
5543 for this these days?


For that gain range I'd use 5532s as they are fully compensated and thus
work down to 0dB gain without external compensation caps. The 5534 is
only stable at gains of 10dB and above without external compensation.

Space might be a problem, though. It's likely to be tight.


5532s give you two op-amps per chip, the 5534 only one. I'd have thought
that that would have made 5532s the preferred choice if space is tight!

David.

NE 5534
 

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
[snip 12017 discussion]

I guess most people never considered trying it as a general amp due to
the presentation being for RIAA. But I noticed the high rail, low
noise, etc, and found it responded well to being experimented with.
Hence came to prefer it.

It is hard to tell how its noise performance shapes up in professional
applications, and flat response.

Well, the measurements I made led to the spec that the preamp using them
had a SNR of 80dB for MM (RIAA) and 92dB ref to 150mV for line inputs. (And
of course was OK for signals up to 10Vrms, so gave a decent SNR for CD
Audio. Although that did arrive *after* the amp was designed I did have it
in mind.)

As previously explained this was going though three 12017s for RIAA and two
for line inputs. The response was flatter than 0.2dB over 20-20k simply as
a result of the capacitor values, etc, chosen.

I have no quarrel with people using 5534's, etc, though. :-)

Just that from my own experience I'd be inclined to recommend that others
don't dismiss alternatives they haven't actually experimented with for
themself. That way you can easily miss something you might have preferred.
:-)

Oh, and being SIL with a pin gap, the HA12017 can also save space and avoid
incorrect insertions. But that obviously doesn't matter much in most
domestic cases since most space will be for passive components anyway.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

NE 5534
 

Isn't it nice to have a clear, polite, and open discussion for
once in a while? Does the heart good...............


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

NE 5534
 

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 09:16:55 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
[snip 12017 discussion]

I guess most people never considered trying it as a general amp due to
the presentation being for RIAA. But I noticed the high rail, low
noise, etc, and found it responded well to being experimented with.
Hence came to prefer it.

It is hard to tell how its noise performance shapes up in professional
applications, and flat response.

Well, the measurements I made led to the spec that the preamp using them
had a SNR of 80dB for MM (RIAA) and 92dB ref to 150mV for line inputs. (And
of course was OK for signals up to 10Vrms, so gave a decent SNR for CD
Audio. Although that did arrive *after* the amp was designed I did have it
in mind.)

As previously explained this was going though three 12017s for RIAA and two
for line inputs. The response was flatter than 0.2dB over 20-20k simply as
a result of the capacitor values, etc, chosen.

I have no quarrel with people using 5534's, etc, though. :-)

Just that from my own experience I'd be inclined to recommend that others
don't dismiss alternatives they haven't actually experimented with for
themself. That way you can easily miss something you might have preferred.
:-)

Oh, and being SIL with a pin gap, the HA12017 can also save space and avoid
incorrect insertions. But that obviously doesn't matter much in most
domestic cases since most space will be for passive components anyway.

Slainte,

Jim

But then there is price. The 5534 is a few pence, while the HA12017
costs several quid.

d

NE 5534
 

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Looser wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a
gain of 0-10dB. Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the
ol' NE 5543 for this these days?


For that gain range I'd use 5532s as they are fully compensated and
thus work down to 0dB gain without external compensation caps. The
5534 is only stable at gains of 10dB and above without external
compensation.

Space might be a problem, though. It's likely to be tight.


5532s give you two op-amps per chip, the 5534 only one. I'd have thought
that that would have made 5532s the preferred choice if space is tight!

Of course. Getting confused by their numbering. ;-)

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NE 5534
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
Oh, and being SIL with a pin gap, the HA12017 can also save space and
avoid incorrect insertions. But that obviously doesn't matter much in
most domestic cases since most space will be for passive components
anyway.

But have you seen the price?

http://www.littlediode.com/components/HA12017_Integrated_Circuit.html?NO_COOKIE_WARNING= 2&ti=5e48c6ea3bc4f7863cdaff73af811b22&xid=e3462903 e4a5cd5406a168737da1d965

5532s are cheap - and I've got lots of them already.

--
*One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NE 5534
 

In article ,
Woody wrote:
Isn't it nice to have a clear, polite, and open discussion for
once in a while? Does the heart good...............

Of course. Kitty and his knitting circle haven't joined in.

--
*Nostalgia isn't what is used to be.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NE 5534
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message


Well, the measurements I made led to the spec that the
preamp using them had a SNR of 80dB for MM (RIAA) and
92dB ref to 150mV for line inputs. (And of course was OK
for signals up to 10Vrms, so gave a decent SNR for CD
Audio. Although that did arrive *after* the amp was
designed I did have it in mind.)

To put your SNR measurements into perspective, both input and output
voltages, and measurement bandwidth need to be known.

As previously explained this was going though three
12017s for RIAA and two for line inputs. The response was
flatter than 0.2dB over 20-20k simply as a result of the
capacitor values, etc, chosen.

Achieving flat response, or correct RIAA response is pretty much independent
of the op amp chosen, as long as there is ample GBW.

I have no quarrel with people using 5534's, etc, though.

5532/5534 are more optimal in low impedance situations.

NE 5534
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain
of 0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE 5543 for
this these days?

**The 5534/5532 were fabulous OP amps back in '82. MUCH better than the OP
that preceded them. It takes a seriously decent product to be any better
and, at that, there's only marginal audio differences in the newer ones.
Personally, I like the AD825. Technically, it is nicer than the 5532 and
slightly nicer sound-wise. The catch is that they are only available in SMD
variants and singles, at that. You need to source a carrier (Brown Dog) to
suit them.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

NE 5534
 

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message


Well, the measurements I made led to the spec that the preamp using
them had a SNR of 80dB for MM (RIAA) and 92dB ref to 150mV for line
inputs. (And of course was OK for signals up to 10Vrms, so gave a
decent SNR for CD Audio. Although that did arrive *after* the amp was
designed I did have it in mind.)

To put your SNR measurements into perspective, both input and output
voltages, and measurement bandwidth need to be known.

For the line inputs the ref level at the input was as I stated. 150mV rms.
Afraid I can't recall now if the bandwidth was 20-20k flat, or weighted.
Did the measurements nearly 30 years ago! :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

NE 5534
 

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level amps with a gain
of 0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol' NE 5543 for
this these days?

**The 5534/5532 were fabulous OP amps back in '82. MUCH better than the
OP that preceded them. It takes a seriously decent product to be any
better and, at that, there's only marginal audio differences in the
newer ones. Personally, I like the AD825. Technically, it is nicer than
the 5532 and slightly nicer sound-wise. The catch is that they are only
available in SMD variants and singles, at that. You need to source a
carrier (Brown Dog) to suit them.

Think I'll stick to the 5534. ;-)

--
*Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NE 5534
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level
amps with a gain of 0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol'
NE 5543 for this these days?

**The 5534/5532 were fabulous OP amps back in '82. MUCH
better than the OP that preceded them. It takes a
seriously decent product to be any better and, at that,
there's only marginal audio differences in the newer
ones. Personally, I like the AD825. Technically, it is
nicer than the 5532 and slightly nicer sound-wise.

Here we see Trevor perpetuating the myth that you can taste test the
"flavor" of different very good op amps in a general sort of way.

It turns out that in the application being discussed, namely a unity gain
buffer with output of 2 volts into a 10k load, even a 741 would probably
sound good.

There are some impressive new op amps that have recently come onto the
marketplace, but they are mostly a study in impressive numbers, and of use
for instrumentation.

NE 5534
 

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level
amps with a gain of 0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol'
NE 5543 for this these days?

**The 5534/5532 were fabulous OP amps back in '82. MUCH
better than the OP that preceded them. It takes a
seriously decent product to be any better and, at that,
there's only marginal audio differences in the newer
ones. Personally, I like the AD825. Technically, it is
nicer than the 5532 and slightly nicer sound-wise.

Here we see Trevor perpetuating the myth that you can taste test the
"flavor" of different very good op amps in a general sort of way.

It turns out that in the application being discussed, namely a unity
gain buffer with output of 2 volts into a 10k load, even a 741 would
probably sound good.

There are some impressive new op amps that have recently come onto the
marketplace, but they are mostly a study in impressive numbers, and of
use for instrumentation.


I actually want a variable gain of between 0 - 10 dB. So need an output of
rather more than 2 volts into 10k - plus headroom.
I know the 5534 will be fine for this - but given the age just wondered
if there was something better, as it were.

--
*Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

NE 5534
 

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:


It turns out that in the application being discussed, namely a unity
gain buffer with output of 2 volts into a 10k load, even a 741 would
probably sound good.

FWIW More years ago that I care to remember a friend of mine bought his
first 'serious' hifi system. He had more money than I, so did this long
before I could afford anything comperable. He bought a QUAD system
33/303/ESLs. But wanted more control over the frequency response.

So I made him some simple 'bass shelf' tone controls ... using 741s.[1]
They actually worked quite decently well. He happily used the added
controls for many years. So yes, they actually sounded fine in the
circumstances, despite having zero 'street cred'. 8-]

That said, latterly I'd always automatically use better op amps since -
like using something like a Meridian DAC - they help give confidence that
you won't have any problems with the performance envelope. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

[1] IIRC The circuit was from a HFN of the era. Which I think also used
741s as this was in days before even TL071's, etc.

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

NE 5534
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message
In article
, Arny
Krueger wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in
message
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level
amps with a gain of 0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol'
NE 5543 for this these days?

**The 5534/5532 were fabulous OP amps back in '82. MUCH
better than the OP that preceded them. It takes a
seriously decent product to be any better and, at that,
there's only marginal audio differences in the newer
ones. Personally, I like the AD825. Technically, it is
nicer than the 5532 and slightly nicer sound-wise.

Here we see Trevor perpetuating the myth that you can
taste test the "flavor" of different very good op amps
in a general sort of way.

It turns out that in the application being discussed,
namely a unity gain buffer with output of 2 volts into
a 10k load, even a 741 would probably sound good.

There are some impressive new op amps that have recently
come onto the marketplace, but they are mostly a study
in impressive numbers, and of use for instrumentation.


I actually want a variable gain of between 0 - 10 dB. So
need an output of rather more than 2 volts into 10k -
plus headroom.
I know the 5534 will be fine for this - but given the age
just wondered if there was something better, as it were.


Depends on how you define better. If by better you mean more GBW, lower
distoriton, noise and offset performance optimized for different working
impedance levels, lower power consumptiion, lower voltage power supply, high
voltage power supply and output, then there are other choices.

For general purpose applications and $0.50 or so, a 5534 or 5532 is pretty
hard to beat. Most of the audio projects I've built had 5534 or 5532 op amps
in them. In the past they were over $2.00.

The "hot" audio chips of the day a

LME49860 LME49710s, LME49720 LME49740 LM4562 LME49600

OPA 134, OPA 2134 OPA 4134 OPA365 OPA1161 OPA1162 OPA1612

NE 5534
 

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:31:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level
amps with a gain of 0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol'
NE 5543 for this these days?

**The 5534/5532 were fabulous OP amps back in '82. MUCH
better than the OP that preceded them. It takes a
seriously decent product to be any better and, at that,
there's only marginal audio differences in the newer
ones. Personally, I like the AD825. Technically, it is
nicer than the 5532 and slightly nicer sound-wise.

Here we see Trevor perpetuating the myth that you can taste test the
"flavor" of different very good op amps in a general sort of way.

It turns out that in the application being discussed, namely a unity
gain buffer with output of 2 volts into a 10k load, even a 741 would
probably sound good.

There are some impressive new op amps that have recently come onto the
marketplace, but they are mostly a study in impressive numbers, and of
use for instrumentation.


I actually want a variable gain of between 0 - 10 dB. So need an output of
rather more than 2 volts into 10k - plus headroom.
I know the 5534 will be fine for this - but given the age just wondered
if there was something better, as it were.

Not entirely. You are OK with the 5532, but the 5534 is only stable
from a gain of 3 upwards. So if you go for the 5534, stick a couple of
resistors in front of it to drop the signal by say 12dB (to a quarter
of the original) and set the minimum gain to 4.

d

NE 5534
 

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:59:55 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:31:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level
amps with a gain of 0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the ol'
NE 5543 for this these days?

**The 5534/5532 were fabulous OP amps back in '82. MUCH
better than the OP that preceded them. It takes a
seriously decent product to be any better and, at that,
there's only marginal audio differences in the newer
ones. Personally, I like the AD825. Technically, it is
nicer than the 5532 and slightly nicer sound-wise.

Here we see Trevor perpetuating the myth that you can taste test the
"flavor" of different very good op amps in a general sort of way.

It turns out that in the application being discussed, namely a unity
gain buffer with output of 2 volts into a 10k load, even a 741 would
probably sound good.

There are some impressive new op amps that have recently come onto the
marketplace, but they are mostly a study in impressive numbers, and of
use for instrumentation.


I actually want a variable gain of between 0 - 10 dB. So need an output of
rather more than 2 volts into 10k - plus headroom.
I know the 5534 will be fine for this - but given the age just wondered
if there was something better, as it were.

Not entirely. You are OK with the 5532, but the 5534 is only stable
from a gain of 3 upwards. So if you go for the 5534, stick a couple of
resistors in front of it to drop the signal by say 12dB (to a quarter
of the original) and set the minimum gain to 4.

d

Alternatively, of course, you can add an external compensation cap. I
think I'm right that 22pF is the value that guarantees unity gain
stability.

d

NE 5534
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 17:59:55 GMT, (Don
Pearce) wrote:

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 13:31:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman
(News)" wrote:

In article
, Arny
Krueger wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" wrote in
message
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I need to knock up some stereo (domestic) line level
amps with a gain of 0-10dB.
Using a +/-15 volt supply. Anything better than the
ol' NE 5543 for this these days?

**The 5534/5532 were fabulous OP amps back in '82.
MUCH better than the OP that preceded them. It takes a
seriously decent product to be any better and, at
that, there's only marginal audio differences in the
newer ones. Personally, I like the AD825.
Technically, it is nicer than the 5532 and slightly
nicer sound-wise.

Here we see Trevor perpetuating the myth that you can
taste test the "flavor" of different very good op amps
in a general sort of way.

It turns out that in the application being discussed,
namely a unity gain buffer with output of 2 volts
into a 10k load, even a 741 would probably sound good.

There are some impressive new op amps that have
recently come onto the marketplace, but they are
mostly a study in impressive numbers, and of use for
instrumentation.


I actually want a variable gain of between 0 - 10 dB.
So need an output of rather more than 2 volts into 10k
- plus headroom.
I know the 5534 will be fine for this - but given the
age just wondered if there was something better, as it
were.

Not entirely. You are OK with the 5532, but the 5534 is
only stable from a gain of 3 upwards. So if you go for
the 5534, stick a couple of resistors in front of it to
drop the signal by say 12dB (to a quarter of the
original) and set the minimum gain to 4.

d

Alternatively, of course, you can add an external
compensation cap. I think I'm right that 22pF is the
value that guarantees unity gain stability.

Back in the days when I was building 5534-based phono preamps, I went the
external comp capacitor route.

NE 5534
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arny
Krueger
wrote:


It turns out that in the application being discussed, namely a
unity
gain buffer with output of 2 volts into a 10k load, even a
741 would
probably sound good.

FWIW More years ago that I care to remember a friend of mine
bought his
first 'serious' hifi system. He had more money than I, so did
this long
before I could afford anything comperable. He bought a QUAD
system
33/303/ESLs. But wanted more control over the frequency
response.

So I made him some simple 'bass shelf' tone controls ... using
741s.[1]
They actually worked quite decently well. He happily used the
added
controls for many years. So yes, they actually sounded fine in
the
circumstances, despite having zero 'street cred'. 8-]

That said, latterly I'd always automatically use better op amps
since -
like using something like a Meridian DAC - they help give
confidence that
you won't have any problems with the performance envelope. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

[1] IIRC The circuit was from a HFN of the era. Which I think
also used
741s as this was in days before even TL071's, etc.


Funny you should mention that Jim. I have a Quad 33 - I've just
dug it out as part of a clear up and it's sitting about a metre
away, on the floor - and I made replacement amp boards for it
after I found the originals had RF sensitivity. I ran a network
analyser over it before and after and the results were
surprising.

From memory the original boards (which included the tones
controls) were -3dB at 40Hz and 18KHz or thereabouts; the
replacements built around TL084 ICs, with the tone controls now
out of circuit, were -3dB at 14Hz and 240KHz and within 0.1dB in
between. The phase error was tens of degrees on the originals,
but -1.5deg at 20Hz on the replacements.

Having said all that I couldn't hear any real difference - and I
was using a pair of Bailey transmission lines!



--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

NE 5534
 

"Don Pearce" wrote

Alternatively, of course, you can add an external compensation cap. I
think I'm right that 22pF is the value that guarantees unity gain
stability.


Why mess about making a 5534 unity-gain stable when the 5532 is anyway? And
since space is "likely to be tight" the 5532 is the obvious choice.

David.

NE 5534
 

On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 15:10:51 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:

FWIW More years ago that I care to remember a friend of mine bought his
first 'serious' hifi system. He had more money than I, so did this long
before I could afford anything comperable. He bought a QUAD system
33/303/ESLs. But wanted more control over the frequency response.

So I made him some simple 'bass shelf' tone controls ... using 741s.[1]
They actually worked quite decently well. He happily used the added
controls for many years. So yes, they actually sounded fine in the
circumstances, despite having zero 'street cred'. 8-]

Sometime around 1970 I had a Quad 22/II system. I particularly
remember the wobbly connectors, particularly on the "tin can" adapters
that plugged in to the back of the control unit (this was before the
days of "interconnects" :-) And I remember how it hummed - and
later on, how exciting it was to get my first pieces of recording and
hi-fi gear that DIDN'T hum!

NE 5534
 

"Woody"

Funny you should mention that Jim. I have a Quad 33 - I've just dug it out
as part of a clear up and it's sitting about a metre away, on the floor -
and I made replacement amp boards for it after I found the originals had
RF sensitivity. I ran a network analyser over it before and after and the
results were surprising.

From memory the original boards (which included the tones controls)
were -3dB at 40Hz and 18KHz or thereabouts;


** ROTFL

That is the specified response for the Quad ESL !!

The Quad 33 pre-amp is speced at +/- 0.5dB, 30 Hz to 20 kHz

- including any errors in the RIAA compensation.



..... Phil

NE 5534
 

In article , Woody
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
[snip description of ye old add-on tone controls for 33/303]


Funny you should mention that Jim. I have a Quad 33 - I've just dug it
out as part of a clear up and it's sitting about a metre away, on the
floor - and I made replacement amp boards for it after I found the
originals had RF sensitivity. I ran a network analyser over it before
and after and the results were surprising.

From memory the original boards (which included the tones controls)
were -3dB at 40Hz and 18KHz or thereabouts; the replacements built
around TL084 ICs, with the tone controls now out of circuit, were -3dB
at 14Hz and 240KHz and within 0.1dB in between. The phase error was
tens of degrees on the originals, but -1.5deg at 20Hz on the
replacements.

So far as I recall PJW tended to deliberately roll away the LF and HF. I
laughed out loud the first time I saw what a standard 34 did to a
squarewave! :-) However I think this was part of his ensuring that HF or LF
didn't over stretch the ESL or 303.

Having said all that I couldn't hear any real difference - and I was
using a pair of Bailey transmission lines!

My own experience from experimenting with this is that systematic
differences between channels were far more noticable than common mode
alterations in the LF responses of both channels. But it tends to sound to
me as 'blurred stereo image' rather than a change in frequency response as
such.

At one time I experimented with passive 'shelf' filters for LF lift (i.e.
higher reduction above LF) to extend the overall response using ESLs. The
results gave me the above impression. Since then I have taken to using a
modified 34 as a 'tone control box'. TBH the modern fashion to have no tone
controls/filters/balance seems daft to me. I tend to put the fashion down
to two factors

1) Poorly done 'baxandall' controls that have an inappropriate response
and/or differ between channels.

2) reviewers hating the idea that a slight change in a tone control setting
totally swamps all the fancy 'differences' they say they hear. So making
obvious mince of their blather. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

NE 5534
 

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
I actually want a variable gain of between 0 - 10 dB. So need an output of
rather more than 2 volts into 10k - plus headroom.
I know the 5534 will be fine for this - but given the age just wondered
if there was something better, as it were.

Not entirely. You are OK with the 5532, but the 5534 is only stable
from a gain of 3 upwards. So if you go for the 5534, stick a couple of
resistors in front of it to drop the signal by say 12dB (to a quarter
of the original) and set the minimum gain to 4.

Sorry - getting confused with numbers again. I'll be using the dual
version. Got hundreds of them . ;-)

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.